1:32 Amodel Nieuport 16c

[Dutch522]

Thank you, Rick and Ken, your comments are always appreciated, and a real motivation to keep this log going.

More interior progress, although needless to say it all needs much additional work:



DV

[NigelR]

Excellent work on a very challenging kit. You are convincing me more than ever to wait for the Copper State Models version of the 11/16.......

[RichieW]

More lovely progress Dutch, it's moving al9ng nicely now you have the seat and prop made. The seat is a work of art in its own right!

Richie

[Dutch522]

Thanks, Richie! It's all been tremendous fun so far.

And Nigel, "challenging" is exactly the right word! But my Standard Operating Procedure is to hack a kit to pieces and scratchbuild about 50% of it, so it's all in a day's work :-D

Dutch

[RAGIII]

Although you had a slow start with parts taking place over major progress, you are now showing what it all will look like together. Lovely work!
RAGIII

[Dutch522]

Thanks, Rick... yes, this project has indeed been slow off the mark, but it's been harder than I imagined to pick up on modeling after a three-year hiatus, especially so after switching from 1:48 to Wingnut scale. But fun nonetheless.

Much fiddly-bitting over the weekend, and a near-disaster when I dumped the whole shooting match on the floor while cleaning up... the only real damage was a small lip broken off the top of the box the seat is mounted on. To prevent any repeats I repurposed the carton my new 10X magnifying lamp came in, and made a new home for everything:



Of course, while demonstrating its inherent superiority to my wife, I nearly dumped everything arsy-varsy again :-P

Onward,

Dutch

[AngryJazz]

Haha careful Dave - I dont think this magnificent bird is quite ready for its first flight yet 

[RAGIII]

I am glad that the drop didn't do any serious damage! That box is way too organized for Me. I just found a part I thought was lost forever It was an elevator actuator for a Ju88 in 1/72nd scale.
RAGIII

[Dutch522]

Thanks, Ben and Rick!

Argentine writer Jorge Luis Borges wrote a story called "The Garden of Forking Paths", the title of which pretty much sums up my experiences with the cockpit in my Nieuport project. I recently found two photos (rare as hen's teeth!) of the interior of the only surviving N.11, which now hangs from the ceiling at Le Bourget, and have been using them as guidance in my interior detailing. But as I've studied them, some perplexing things have emerged:



Most importantly, the seat is not the "short seat" visible in most of the scarce photographs of N.11 interiors—many of which are, in fact, of Italian-built Macchi Ni 11000s—but the taller seat that I started building when I started out. And not only that, but it has the tubular cross-brace that supported the front edge of the seat, as is seen in photos of the N.17:



It presents an interesting quandary. On the one hand there's a number of photos of Nieuport 11 (or Nieuport-Macchi) interiors, showing the box-type mount and the short seat. But then there's the evidence presented by the sole remaining French-built N.11 at the Museé de l'Air, showing what seems to be the later tall seat and stamped steel mounting arrangement of the N.17 (the cross-brace at the front edge of the seat would be unnecessary if it was sitting on the wooden box).

So here's the mystery; was the tall seat/steel mount developed at a late stage of N.11 production, and then carried forward on the N.16 and then the N.17? If so, that would explain their presence in the Le Bourget example. Or did the restoration team simply put in a seat/mount from an N.17? It seems unlikely that one of the most prestegious air museums in the world would make a goof like that.

I used to study medieval history, and learned early on to always go with your primary sources—the closer a document is to the events it relates, the more reliable it generally is. So who do you trust in this case, the photos, or the real aeroplane...?

Curiouser and curiouser, as Alice said.

I think I'll take a break and work on the motor for a while :-/

Dutch

[NigelR]

This is the kind of thing that drives me mad and really slows down my builds. I spend ages looking at photos and references so that I can get things as historically accurate as possible. But at the end of the day, how many people in the entire world will look inside the cockpit of your Nie 16 model and say "well I think he's put the wrong kind of seat and seat mounting in there"? It's probably zero - if you hadn't told us, I am sure most people on here would not have noticed, and this is WWI nerd central.....

It seems unlikely that one of the most prestegious air museums in the world would make a goof like that.

It's possible they might. There have been many restorations in important museums that have turned out to be wrong. Often, restorations are based on the best knowledge available at the time which subsequently turns out to be proven incorrect by newer research. And there are some WWI aircraft restorations that are just plain wrong.

After all that work on the seat, it seems a pity to change based on something that might or might not be true.......


 

[KiwiZac]

It seems unlikely that one of the most prestegious air museums in the world would make a goof like that.

It's possible they might. There have been many restorations in important museums that have turned out to be wrong. Often, restorations are based on the best knowledge available at the time which subsequently turns out to be proven incorrect by newer research. And there are some WWI aircraft restorations that are just plain wrong.

Exactly my thinking, Nigel! I can think of several such examples from all eras of aviation, some of which are yet to be rectified.

[Dutch522]

Thanks for the input, Nigel & Zac! RE: restoration goof-ups, you really don't have to look much farther than our NASM to see how horribly wrong things can go with a restoration. The dreadful candy-colored lozenge on "Stropp" resulted from just that sort of mix-up.

This photo is all I have to work with for the cockpit of "my" N.16, No. 986:



... although I originally thought this one, showing Sgt Barnay in the cockpit, might be 986 as well:



But there doesn't seem to be a headrest in this photo, indicating it's an 11. Also, the mirror is mounted inboard of the cockpit coaming vs outboard on the above photo.

On reflection I think I'll just go with the earlier seat/control arrangement, since to go back now would require completely re-doing the whole aft section of the cockpit.

Onward, through night and fog...

Dutch

[Dutch522]

Progress on Projet Barnay has been slow lately, but a lot of it hasn't been particularly post-worthy. I'm still really feeling my way towards the new level of detail that's possible in 1:32, and experimenting with techniques and materials. I've spent a lot of time working on the rear of the fuselage, knowing full well that practically none of it will be visible after things are buttoned up... but it's allowed me to get comfortable and explore methods of rigging and weathering and so forth:



Plus I've been having a lot of fun :-)

The wood putty under the headrest is basicaly to capture the shape of the upholstered ply panel that closes off the opening under the decking, which I'll make up either out of veneer or styrene. I know there was a ply former with a laced-in fabric panel on the N.17 behind the seat, but I've seen no evidence that the N.11/16 had that feature. If anybody knows otherwise, please LMK...

Dutch

[RAGIII]

The wood grain in the forward fuselage and all of the rigging and fabric in the rear fuselage look great! (Seen or unseen) I think you made the right decision to keep the seat as is. It looks awesome!
RAGIII

[RichieW]

Awesome work Dutch, I agree with Rick about the wood grain and fabric. Doesn't matter a jot if the added details will be visible  or not. What I love about it is that you had fun experimenting with materials and techniques. Keep going Dutch it's looking fab!

Richie