Author Topic: Authentic color Drooling Bulldog  (Read 55666 times)

WarrenD

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Re: Authentic color Drooling Bulldog
« Reply #45 on: February 14, 2015, 01:54:39 PM »
There is no distribution anywhere yet Cajun since the paint isn't being retailed anywhere yet. When it does come out, it will most likely have to come by surface shipping (Connex container on a ship) since it is a lacquer-based paint.

You can order MisterKit here in the U.S. anytime from Roll Models or from the manufacturer directly.

HTH, FWIW,

Warren

Offline ALBATROS1234

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Re: Authentic color Drooling Bulldog
« Reply #46 on: February 14, 2015, 04:56:28 PM »
i am a relative newbie to the field of ww1 aircraft, just under 8 or 9 years of serious devotion(although a lifelong fascination) that said i was around at the aerodrome 2007 thru to the great schism and have certainly read many a debate on color(pc-10/pc-12 etc),ortho film, i enjoyed the debates because i learned alot very quickly. the main thing i learned was this ww1 aircraft color stuff is an art not a science. i have to commend the members here as we basically get along well,encourage beginners, back slap the greats etc when it comes to modelling. i know it will nt descend to any kind of chaos due to the great and relevant things me mate rowan has said but also i want to add, many of the guys who were the ones who liked to argue are not here with us. some have passed away and some just havent signed on to our little utopia . all i am saying is many of those spoken of arent around these parts leaving us as mainly a group of buddies with common modelling goals and interests but none of us are truly experts to the point where what we say must be accepted as the be all end all. i dont see any of that nor the rivet counting that exists elsewhere ,ever being a problem here. we generally work things out with discussion see the other chaps point and agree to disagree at the worst case. at the best we agree and live happily on, showing our own interpretations which cannot be said to be right or wrong ,although many of us strive to be as accurate as possible, because we all have the sense to realize that not only does each monitor show color differently but you can take ten photos of a plane at a museum from 10 diff angels and due to lighting and angles of said lighting to the lens the color can show up lighter,darker,warmer or cooler in tone etc. in short this will not be a problem here. i am certain.

Offline ondra

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Re: Authentic color Drooling Bulldog
« Reply #47 on: February 14, 2015, 05:09:31 PM »
One question to english native speakers (as I am not one) - does "drooling bulldog" have any negative conotation in english?

Offline Pgtaylorart

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Re: Authentic color Drooling Bulldog
« Reply #48 on: February 14, 2015, 06:04:30 PM »


i dont see any of that nor the rivet counting that exists elsewhere ,ever being a problem here. we generally work things out with discussion see the other chaps point and agree to disagree at the worst case. at the best we agree and live happily on, showing our own interpretations which cannot be said to be right or wrong ,although many of us strive to be as accurate as possible, because we all have the sense to realize that not only does each monitor show color differently but you can take ten photos of a plane at a museum from 10 diff angels and due to lighting and angles of said lighting to the lens the color can show up lighter,darker,warmer or cooler in tone etc. in short this will not be a problem here. i am certain.

I really agree with your assessment of our group on this forum. It is a very helpful and informative bunch. But, correct me if I'm wrong when it comes to those "rivet counters". They don't really exist here because these WWI aircraft didn't have many rivets, generally.   8)
I guess we need to refer to that mentality as "stitch counters" to make it more historically accurate!  Lol ;) :P ::)

George

Offline Pgtaylorart

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Re: Authentic color Drooling Bulldog
« Reply #49 on: February 14, 2015, 06:14:24 PM »
One question to english native speakers (as I am not one) - does "drooling bulldog" have any negative conotation in english?

Very definitely!


I agree. It kind of an unpleasant image to think of a slobbery dog.

George

Offline ondra

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Re: Authentic color Drooling Bulldog
« Reply #50 on: February 14, 2015, 06:35:25 PM »
Oooooops, thanks for the explanation, none of us had an idea that there can be a conotation like this. Thanks for the hint, this obviously was not a lucky choice.

Just to explain - the name was inspired by Sergey's best friend, his bulldog.

Offline von Mertens

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Re: Authentic color Drooling Bulldog
« Reply #51 on: February 14, 2015, 11:08:45 PM »
Dear sirs! I think that I have to be presented, my name is Sergey Mertens, I am the academic artist and the passionate modeller. When I only started doing models of planes of Great War, indefinitely resolved an issue as it could look actually. Unfortunately the theory of determination of color in the black-and-white photo remains only the theory, I started looking for other way. I think that many of you don't see or don't understand a difference between a pigment, color or a shade. To you I won't give lecture about a chromatics, only I want to pay your attention that the pigment, is a component of the filled composite materials, opacity, the color giving to materials, anticorrosion and other properties. In technology of paints and varnishes pigments call the high-disperse inorganic or organic, insoluble substances in dispersive environments capable to form with filming agents protective, decorative or decorative sheetings. The soluble substances capable to paint other materials are called dyes.
 Also, when we speak about a pigment, we speak about the constant and invariable size which looks equally both in Canada, and in Guadalajara or in Cambodia. It is ridiculous to assume that the German or British command ordered paints in China or India. The durability of planes was very short and for their painting cheap and readily available technical paints, typical about a certain geographical area were used. Can surprise nobody that many discoveries were made, only thanks to assumptions. I don't make any discovery, I simply systematize the historic facts, but not in the field of a militariya and in the field of paint and varnish coverings.
Don't forget please that an aviation hangar, it not the art studio, but thus in camouflage paints has to be the general system which will allow each squadron to paint planes equally. When we take together all pigments which were in the field used and had a technological capability of processing, we will receive quite big color scale. From this scale we will clean pigments, which poisonous, combustible and not stable. There is not such wide choice, don't think? It is necessary only to compare a chemical composition of pigments, to the chemical analysis of a canvas of the plane. Naturally to a realistic type of model of it it isn't enough, there is a lot of factors, measuring scale, light, satiety...  but it already depends on the modeller. I only offer new, or better to say, old technology of work with paint as it was before hundred years. I think, what my education, me allows to consider itself as the expert in the field of a chromatics, but I don't understand why it is an arogantnost synonym? I am not a businessman, I am an artist... more than two years I am engaged in this research and I want to share with colleagues results. For the artist it is a great honor and prestige. Thanks for attention to my product and if you try it or not, is your good will.
I apologize for the English, I use the electronic translator... unfortunately there isn't enough time for discussion, but surely I will explain to you why the bulldog slobbers...
« Last Edit: February 15, 2015, 12:01:59 AM by von Mertens »

WarrenD

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Re: Authentic color Drooling Bulldog
« Reply #52 on: February 14, 2015, 11:58:29 PM »
von Mertens,
                   First, welcome to the forum!!! :)  Secondly, sometimes translator programs do a good job, sometimes not so much. It helps me/us to know that is what y'all are using so that we can make allowance etc. for the issues those programs raise at times. I think you and Hellboy will find that we will be a very receptive audience to your research, etc. I will be looking forward to your future posts.

ALBATROS1234,
                        In my prior avocation I was not known as a "rivet-counter", but as a "stitch-nazi", and I was proud of the title.  ;)  However, recreating history as we were doing it was very different than recreating it in miniature, so it's not quite the same thing.

All,
     This discussion has made me want to dig out my old digital copy of Project Butterfly. I wonder if Des will let me post a copy of it here?

Warren
                   

Offline Pgtaylorart

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Re: Authentic color Drooling Bulldog
« Reply #53 on: February 15, 2015, 02:26:55 AM »
von Mertens,

Thank you very much for all your hard work into the study of color. I didn't mean to be disrespectful or dismissive of your work. My main point was that color is relative to the color adjacent to it and can appear very different in combination, vs on its own. Please keep up your work. I am very interested in trying your paints if they become available in the US. I'm open to anything that helps get us closer to historical accuracy in our models.

Thanks and keep up the good work,
George

PS: bulldogs are a cool, strong, tough dog, maybe the drooling part needs to be dropped. I understand where you got the image, but the drooling part is less important, and here in the US has a negative image.  Bulldog Pigments, or Bulldog Paints might work well.

George

WarrenD

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Re: Authentic color Drooling Bulldog
« Reply #54 on: February 15, 2015, 03:35:34 AM »
I dunno, perhaps the name is different enough to make it a success?  How many of us have used Games Workshop paints for years, and yet delighted in the disgusting color callouts such as vomit green, rotting flesh brown, etc.?  ::)

Warren

Offline zavod44

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Re: Authentic color Drooling Bulldog
« Reply #55 on: February 15, 2015, 12:47:57 PM »
I live in the US what is the negative image?  A drooling dog?  All dogs drool and they are still Mans best Friend aren't they....I can't imagine anyone in the world would be upset by this?  Are we that sensitive?  It's funny, maybe we need to laugh a little more.  If the product is good who cares what it's called?  If it's that upsetting then there are plenty of other paints available with safe names.  The guy is trying to start a company and people are making fun of the name?  That's not very nice.....

WarrenD

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Re: Authentic color Drooling Bulldog
« Reply #56 on: February 15, 2015, 01:14:00 PM »
It appears we are a people separated by a common language, and cultural mores that go with it. As Zavod said, here in the U.S. the name is a non-issue, but in other areas of the English-speaking world it carries a different connotation. I remember a recent falling out on another forum due to someone in the U.S. using a term that has no meaning one way or the other offending someone from one of the former colonies greatly. The former colonial assumed (and we all know what assuming gets you, don't we?), very wrongly, that everyone knew what it meant, when in fact, not everyone did.

Warren

Online uncletony

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Re: Authentic color Drooling Bulldog
« Reply #57 on: February 15, 2015, 03:13:47 PM »
Uh... maybe I hang out with the wrong crowd but definitely a seriously awful connotation where I come from...

Offline ALBATROS1234

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Re: Authentic color Drooling Bulldog
« Reply #58 on: February 15, 2015, 05:05:32 PM »
the name doesnt bother me, my dog is like my child to me. i care only how the paint performs.

Offline the great waldo

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Re: Authentic color Drooling Bulldog
« Reply #59 on: February 15, 2015, 07:13:28 PM »
I would'nt worry about the name. I'm a guitar maker by profession and all you have to do is look in a guitar magazine at the available guitar effects pedals names like snarling dog, pig nose  etc, etc,
We did have a white boxer dog when I was a kid and Drooling Boxer was certainly an apt name for him, especially after he had got stung in the chops by a wasp, needed a bucket and mop to clean up all that drool !!!

Cheers

Andrew