forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com
WW1 Aircraft Modeling => What's New => Topic started by: Hellboy on February 11, 2015, 02:55:31 AM
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Intro:
Whilst the situation around the colouring of the airplanes flying in the WW2 till this day is thanks to the FS code and German RLM standarts considerably mapped and offering the exact tutorials how to mix shades for the colour industry, there are still plenty of questions around the exact shading of the planes from The Great War. This comes from the limited informations of the colouring settings and the inability to compare them to the photographs from the original period (since they were only in black-white edition).
Another problem during the determination of the exact shades, that might be possible to deduce according to the preserved airplanes of at least their parts, is their age, which causes the colouring to fade and by that creates colour degradation for the needs of the modellers. Hardly anybody from the colour producers/producing industry is able or willing to pay for the exact chemical analysis of the colour composition from the preserved samples, offering the ability to get the authentic shade.
The new colour producer focusing entirely on the planes flying in the period of The Great War chose a different way of facing this problem. Behind these colours stands the brain and knowledge of a person educated in painting/art, the academic painter Sergej Mertens.
(http://modelweb.modelforum.cz/wp-content/gallery/barvy-drooling-buldog/thumbs/thumbs_blb.jpg?i=311028154)
He used his knowledge and created the colour shades from the exact pigments used at that time and place the original producers chose to work at. This not only guarantees the authenticity but also “real” reactions of the colours on the model (transparency of certain shades etc.).
The colours are stored in dark-brown bottles with a retro-styled label consisting of the original name of the colour and its numeric marking. Each bottle contains 20ml of colour and a glass bead, that presents an excellent solution for mixing the colour which other more commercial producers should consider providing in their products.
(http://modelweb.modelforum.cz/wp-content/gallery/barvy-drooling-buldog/thumbs/thumbs_P1140704.JPG?i=2125767531) (http://modelweb.modelforum.cz/wp-content/gallery/barvy-drooling-buldog/thumbs/thumbs_P1140707.JPG?i=1549305237)
Colour Test
I have received six colours in total for testing – kraplak (Rose Madder ), Prussian blue, Chromoxide, Kadmium-chromoxide, white and black.
Then I have tested the colours on different surfaces – Gunze-Mr. Surfacer, white, the colour of wood, silver and the colour of canvas. It was necessary to do so, because in the case of the actual planes, the colours were also applied differently.
(http://modelweb.modelforum.cz/wp-content/gallery/barvy-drooling-buldog/thumbs/thumbs_P1140688.JPG?i=532078373)
Kraplak (Rose Madder )
The extract from the roots of Rubia tinctorium. The history of using this extract is dated back to 1500 BC, cloths coloured in this shade have been found in the tomb of the pharaon Tutanchamon as well as in the ruins of Pompeii. Kraplak was also being used in the 17th. century for colouring the English soldiers’ uniforms (that is why they are called redcoats till this day).
The German chemists Carl Graebe and Carl Lieberman have managed to produce alizarin synthetically from antracen in 1868 and this technology was then patented by the BASF firm, that has made even more for the needs of the German army.
The colour was also used as the clean/clear pigment in varnish (Manfred von Richthofen’s or Ernst Udet’s crimson planes, the red insignia of JASTA`s), or eventually could be also mixed with white colour for example or with white and blue to create a shade of crimson.
For the test the colour has been used in its basic transparent shade.
(http://modelweb.modelforum.cz/wp-content/gallery/barvy-drooling-buldog/thumbs/thumbs_P1140669.JPG?i=1561320990)
Prussian Blue
This is a chemical compound ferrous ferrocyanide.. It creates dark blue pigment called Prussian blue, Berlin blue or Paris/royal blue and it is also one of the first colours that was ever produced industrially.
Prussian blue was either used as a simple pigment in varnish, but mostly thanks to its transparency (thanks to which it changed to black on darker surfaces) it was mixed with white and other shades.
I have used this colour as a transparent at first and then mixed it with the zinc white, which resulted into a strongly opaque colour. In the first case, the propotions were 10% of the white colour mixed with the blue and vice versa.
(http://modelweb.modelforum.cz/wp-content/gallery/barvy-drooling-buldog/thumbs/thumbs_P1140779.JPG?i=1991363814)
Chromoxid green:
Known as Chromium(III) oxide. Green pigment that was being used as the basic top coat of the German’s green camouflage colour.
As the pigment only, it was used for it’s dark green colour, but after mixing it with the zinc white the final result was a light green shade. These pigments were then used among the others for the top camouflage colouring for the Albatros planes.
(http://modelweb.modelforum.cz/wp-content/gallery/barvy-drooling-buldog/thumbs/thumbs_P1140778.JPG?i=507153529)
Kadmium-chromoxid:
Mixing yellow cadmium and chomoxide results in bright green shade, used for example as a distinctive colour on Jasta 5 planes. I have added a stripe of red to the picture, which was being used for piping the green spaces/areas.
(http://modelweb.modelforum.cz/wp-content/gallery/barvy-drooling-buldog/thumbs/thumbs_P1140780.JPG?i=1571170534)
Zinc White
Also known as zinc oxide, the oldest zinc ore known to the humanity. Being produced industrially from 1834. Lightfast, bright white colour with one little disadvantage – its drying is rather slow.
It was being used as a base colour for national insignia, or as a component of mixed shades. On the tested sample, the colour to me looked like a much brighter one and definitely better-covering then Gunze MrC 1.
(http://modelweb.modelforum.cz/wp-content/gallery/barvy-drooling-buldog/thumbs/thumbs_P1140677-1.JPG?i=1958375707)
Furnace Black
Coloured pigment also known as acetylen soot or furnace black. It is possible to produce this pigment by incomplete combustion of oil/petrol products and used to improve the properties of rubber.
For the art pigments it is still used in the form of soots obtained thanks to the combustion of oil lamps.
(http://modelweb.modelforum.cz/wp-content/gallery/barvy-drooling-buldog/thumbs/thumbs_P1140686-1.JPG?i=324181155)
The mechanical properties of the colours
. The colours perfectly stick to its surface, after the drying process (which might be a bit longer when using the white colour) they become very resistant, so tearing them down with a masking tape should not happen so easily.
Decal Setter/Softer surface colors do not interfere the surface and the prints stict to it without a problem. Also their mechanical resistance seems to be adequate (it is simillar to the Gunze C surface).
During the sanding process with the abrasive paper the colours do not tear from their surface, but are being sharpened equally.
(http://modelweb.modelforum.cz/wp-content/gallery/barvy-drooling-buldog/thumbs/thumbs_P1140713.JPG?i=1908363693[/img[img]http://modelweb.modelforum.cz/wp-content/gallery/barvy-drooling-buldog/thumbs/thumbs_P1140712.JPG?i=876415271)
The dilution and saturation of colours
Even though the producer has their own thinners in their store (slow-drying and standart), the colours are also compatible with the Gunze C. thinners.
My colleague Ondřej Mokrý tried the final dilution of colours and their subsequent usability. The most adequate solution for the work with the airbrushes showed up to be the 1:2 dilution in favour of the thinner. The colour’s drying process is much quicker on the surface of the model and with the number of layers it is possible to control the final colour saturation.
(http://modelweb.modelforum.cz/wp-content/gallery/barvy-drooling-buldog/thumbs/thumbs_IMG_0011.JPG?i=395838825)
The end
New colours bring new challenges of authentic realisation of the planes’ surfaces with them to the modellers interested in the planes from The Great War. The colours behave simillarly as their originals (used on the actual planes), which on one side makes the whole surface of the model more authentic, but on the other side makes the mixing and preparation for the modeller much more difficult (the distinction of wooden, metal and canvas base under the top layer of paint).
Considering the constantly expanding offer of shades, including camouflages there is a big chance new surprising results will emerge such as the final look of the models. Unfortunately not everyone is ready for such a change.
(http://modelweb.modelforum.cz/wp-content/gallery/barvy-drooling-buldog/thumbs/thumbs_10178084_818896778148363_4916634406802281316_n.jpg?i=920799379) (http://modelweb.modelforum.cz/wp-content/gallery/barvy-drooling-buldog/thumbs/thumbs_P1140706.JPG?i=145596626)
You may expect further information and the new shades in the Drolling Bulldog store.
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Is there any way to make your pictures bigger so they can be better assessed?
Sean
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I am looking forward to being able to acquire your paints! US Source?
RAGIII
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I was pre-warned about the name before the article was posted, if you go to the Drooling Bulldog facebook page you will find some excellent photos.
Des.
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Hellboy posted about this company and these paints a little while back in the off topic section if memory serves. I personally don't care what the company name is, I'm just concerned about the product.
As was mentioned earlier, the posted images are far too small to make any kind of impression, or a judgement on our part. Could you enlarge or repost larger versions please?
Do you plan to expand the line to other air services?
Warren
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Hi,
sounds very good. There was a similar, and very revealing, account of German colours based on available pigments in a Windsock issue a few years ago - I can't remember which offhand but will post it up. Found it: "Idflieg colour conundrums" by Allan Forbes, Windsock 24 (3), 24-25.
The 'Drooling Bulldog' is almost certainly derived from an emblem painted on a Fokker DVII. Again, I can't remember the unit/pilot but recall it was an option on a 1/48 decal sheet - possibly an Argentinian pilot (certainly South American).
Cheers,
GrahamB
The chromium oxide green will also make a good basis for the 'bilious' green used on a couple of Jasta 30 Albatros (Paul Erbguth) - plates 15 and 16 in the new Jasta 30 book. Very tasty!
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well my interest is piqued, i would like to try a few and see.
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Love the name, interested in the products.....
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well my interest is piqued, i would like to try a few and see.
Likewise.
Cheers,
Bud
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One of the reasons I switched to WWI from WWII aviation modelling was the lack of the "correct" shade of paint, due to a distinct lack of suitable reference material.
Personally, I don't want to get back into the "wrong shade of green", arguments over the correct shade of RLM 65 or 74. I can appreciate that there will be a market for it, but I rather like the breadth of choice and lack of critical comments WWI aeroplane modelling brings - it's a hobby after all - and I'm keen to continue in my ignorant bliss.
But good luck with Drooling Bulldog, it's certainly interesting.
There is some truth in what you say.
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I'm sorry guys for unsuccessful photos. I thought that by clicking the link increases. I uploaded new photos to the larger contribution again. Again, I apologize. :-[
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Kraplak.
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Prussian Blue
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Chromoxid green
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Kadmium-chromoxid
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Zinc White
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Furnace Black
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Bootles
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Thanks for uploading new, larger photos Hellboy!
Guys, I'm in the same camp in that I chose this field to study, research, build, etc. a LONG time back in order to avoid the color police and some other related hairstyles and attitudes. I'm certainly willing to give these a try, but I'm going to stay very far away from the maddening crowd of "this is the correct color" and so on.
Warren
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I think (or I should rather say I am sure) the story will not go in the direction "Man, you used a wrong shade of green on your Albie".
Personally I appreciate the possibility to use colours based on authentic pigments just for the good feeling that the result will probably look very similar to the original shade.
I do not argue there is always a certain degree of uncertainty (it is known that e. g. PC 10 was changing shade during service due to weathering), that's why I am sure there will not be same sharp discussions as in case of WWII (which from my point of view do not make much sense either).
These paints simply give me an option how to paint my models without the need to mix the "right" shade. It is the same story as with MisterKit, with the difference that I find these lacquer based paints much more durable than acrylics.
Cheers
Ondra
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Ondra, I'm looking forward to the fact they are lacquer-based as well. However, I'm concerned about getting them into the U.S. because of that fact too. I hope they find a dealer here.
Warren
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Huh I thought they might b acrylics the way they were compared to gunze. Want to try them regardless
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Huh I thought they might b acrylics the way they were compared to gunze. Want to try them regardless
They are lacquer based as well as Gunze C, therefore they are compatible with them as well as with the Gunze C thinner and levelling thinner.
Cheers
Ondra
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Warren
why should people like the Drooling Bulldog company, Aviattic, Misterkit, Ray Rimell, Dan-San Abbot, Alan Toelle and many other diligent researchers on WW1 colours even bother if yours is a common attitude towards this subject?
You might as well make the whole thing up yourself! ;)
Cheers,
GrahamB
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Graham,
Errrrrrrr, . . . . ummmmmm, . . . . OK, I'm having trouble tracking here. ??? ???
Warren
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My personal belief is that I try to get it as correct as possible, but it is MY art work and I want it beautiful too. So I get close to what it is "supposed" to be, and go from there. I do like the aspect of WWI having a little more room for interpretation. I will also say that the color game in anything like this weather it be WWII armor or WWI aircraft is definitely "trendy". I see a lot of theories come and go, and that's half the fun.....
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Graham,
Errrrrrrr, . . . . ummmmmm, . . . . OK, I'm having trouble tracking here. ??? ???
Warren
If I can but in here – I suspect that there is a bit of misunderstanding between you and Graham, but I have to admit I found your original post a trifle … concerning? Not sure if it is any more than that but I spend a lot of time worrying at the many issues of WWI colour and here’s what bothered me (and I suspect Graham as well but he will no doubt speak for himself) about your post:
In truth, there are not too many real certainties about WWI colours (although there are plenty of spurious ego-driven pronouncements) BUT there are, most assuredly, some certainties. These broadly relate to existing samples, historical documents, photographs and knowledge of the pigments and processes available during the period we are examining. We also have eye-witness reports, recollections and remembrances but these need to be carefully sifted and where possible used only as corroboration of other concrete information. So there is much room for interpretation and speculation but it is not an entirely free field, devoid of any structure.
If we look at what I term “ego-driven pronouncements”, these were (and sadly still are) made very often in good faith, sometimes based on careful weighing of the available evidence but almost always without “showing the working” and thus they may have been perfectly valid statements, but when made with no explanation of the reasoning behind them, they lose some or all validity.
Quite often these statements have been made by people who regarded themselves (and were in turn, regarded by others) as “experts” in the field. In some cases this (self) categorisation was, in fact, the result of many years of patient study of evidence and the person concerned may be regarded as deserving of the epithet of expert BUT (and it is an enormous room-filling BUT) it was also often accompanied by a self-regard which rendered explanation to the “common herd” superfluous, a sort of “don’t you know who I am?” arrogance.
This arrogance has led in turn to a self-belief which allowed speculation (sometimes more or less valid but still little more than educated guesswork) to become regarded as FACT. These so-called facts have often been parroted without any questioning by others who, either through ignorance, faith in the originator as an expert (see above) or sometimes with a view to their own aggrandisement, believe them to be or want them to be, accepted as FACTS, which they are assuredly not.
So, getting back to the point (at last! I hear the cry), Drooling Bulldog (I know it’s only a name but come on, guys, seriously?!) seem to be putting some real historical knowledge of pigments into the generation of these new colours, in order to give modellers a suitable basis for arriving at shades which have a good chance of reflecting the right historical appearance and for that they should be supported and encouraged. Your mention of the term “colour police”, and the line “wanting to stay away from the maddening crowd (sic) of “this is the correct colour” and so on.” does seem to indicate that you believe that "anything goes", which as I have tried so verbosely to indicate, is far from the true situation.
One of my personal heroes, Carl Sagan, once said: “We will not be afraid to speculate, but we will be careful to distinguish speculation from fact”. That has always seemed particularly pertinent to our narrow, insignificant obsession with WWI colours – as well as to the rest of life!
Edit: I see that I am repeating the line below.... well it probably bears repetition!
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Rowan, I understand what you are saying and I agree with all of your points and I also agree that anyone who is endeavoring to provide some clarity to the time period should be encouraged, but, these quotes from the initial post concerned me a bit in that regard:
He used his knowledge and created the colour shades from the exact pigments used at that time and place the original producers chose to work at. This not only guarantees the authenticity but also “real” reactions of the colours on the model (transparency of certain shades etc.).
Considering the constantly expanding offer of shades, including camouflages there is a big chance new surprising results will emerge such as the final look of the models. Unfortunately not everyone is ready for such a change.
The way I read that is that as a result of their methodology for coming up with their colours they are guaranteed to be authentic. In other words, they are correct, end of story. Then, the intro says "Unfortunately not everyone is ready for such a change." So, taken together, they are saying their colours are correct and if you don't agree, then you are just being stubborn and sticking with previously accepted knowledge.
My guess is that this isn't really what they are saying, but, the initial post certainly read that way to me and I did find it a little off-putting.
That's just my .02
Matt
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Well,
interesting exchange of opinions here...
well, these two quotes you mentioned Matt... I believe at least what I understand after reading it(in original) is that its essential meaning is bit lost in translation... that so called "such a change" is I believe for different behaviour of colours on different materials and therefore more challenging for modeller to prepare surfaces accordingly and I guess there still be vast number of modellers who simply won't bother with such a thing... and with that It will be turning up differently then intended(such as applying paint on surfacer vs. applying it on wooden decals).
Just thought It might bring some light into it... maybe it didn't...
I'm personally very excited to buy some of them and have a go...
Lukas
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(http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh640/UncleTony1917/89b35c6b.jpg)
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Hello Kai,
I don’t see things going in the direction you fear for a number of reasons:
• There was virtually zero standardisation in WWI compared to WWII – mass production, the main driver of standardisation was very much in its infancy and so such things as standard paint recipes and colour catalogues were very much the exception.
• The scarcity of colour information is much greater for WWI and so there is much more room for different interpretations to be equally valid.
• Dare I say that WWI modellers are a different breed of modeller? We tend not to be quite so closed-minded.
Having said that, the “WNW effect” (gawd bless ‘em) is bringing many more modellers into WWI from other genres, such as WWII and even more modern periods and some of these newcomers will seek the colour “certainties” that they have become used to in these other fields – it is perhaps incumbent on all of us to temper their desire for certainty and to prevent it leading to misplaced reliance on spurious information.
My email bag is regularly bulked out with enquiries from modellers “seeking the truth” about this or that colour scheme or lozenge application and I always try to lower their expectations! Likewise in the booklets which accompany our decal sets I try to be as circumspect as I can and always attempt to separate fact from supposition, guesswork, extrapolation or speculation. Sadly it is apparent that I am not always successful and I’ve already seen more than one reference to a particularly mealy-mouthed, hyper-qualified and cautiously stated OPINION in one of my booklets as FACT.
I have no great problem with you "contracting out" your colour worries to me (especially if you buy the decals!) but please make sure that when I say something is guesswork, that’s how you regard it! I know that I’m not alone in this and I’m simply following the excellent examples set by the likes of Ray Rimell, Richard Alexander, Alan Tolle and many others! I know that Richard and Harry are equally clear about differentiating fact from fiction regarding lozenge fabrics, in particular.
This forum of Des’ is blessedly free of “colour wars” and strutting egos and is a great example of how a well-run forum should operate, I'm sure we can all keep it that way!
EDIT: I think, Matt, that Lukas is right; let's not forget that English is not the first language of many of those who post here. Also there may be a little bit of marketing hyperbole sloshing around.....
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(http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh640/UncleTony1917/89b35c6b.jpg)
If there is a set of decals I'll build this tomorrow......
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If there is a set of decals I'll build this tomorrow......
Working on one now......
Bo, is this the recently uncovered air to air photo found at the back of Lanoe Hawker's auntie's mahogany tallboy?
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If there is a set of decals I'll build this tomorrow......
Working on one now......
Bo, is this the recently uncovered air to air photo found at the back of Lanoe Hawker's auntie's mahogany tallboy?
It is. Hawker took the photo with the prototype Kodak Instamatic furnished to him by Q. Sadly many of the photos he took of his famous and tragic duel with the Red Baron -- seen grinning manically as as gripped the twin levers of his smoking Spandaus in his scarlet Triplane -- were lost.
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Lukas, Rowan, you both are certainly correct. In writing my post it did occur to me that it could be a translation problem and that is a big part of the reason I closed with the thought that they probably didn't mean it that way, but, that was how I understood it which in turn produced the reaction it did.
Written language is a grand thing and even between native speakers of a given language it is extraordinarily easy to take things the wrong way, throw in different languages and... look out.
Matt
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OK, it appears my comments have caused a tempest of sorts, and it is my hope that this post might sort some of it out instead of making it worse.
For over thirty years I had an avocation, and sometimes vocation, of recreating history for historic sites, battlefield parks, etc., at one time being employed as an interpretive historian at what was considered by many in the field as one of the top three living history sites in the U.S. (This is the VERY short version BTW.) As a result of this, I have a very good understanding of what is involved in historical research (pre-internet at that too!), and in fact, my attraction to reading, researching, and trying to build WWI aircraft models was a direct result of all of this. It was an attempt to find a "history" hobby outside of one that had grown into a monster. The lack of standardization and the amount of unknowns regarding WWI aviation at that time (early/mid 1990's) had an attraction to me, and add to that it was kind of "quiet" over in the WWI aviation corner. WWI aviation research and modeling was seen as somewhat of a niche, inhabited by quirky, laid-back people, and most folks left us alone to do our own eccentric thing.
Add to this, I've seen pronouncements over the years ranging from Tom Cleaver declaring with absolute certainty that RLM02 was the absolute correct color for Fokker metalwork (based entirely off of an innocent post on the WWI Modeling List where someone stated that RLM02 was a good, close color choice to use when building a model) all the way to DSA (God rest his soul) saying he could read B&W photocopies and tell you with certainty which color was what over at the Aerodrome.
Based on my past in recreating history in 12":1' scale, and reading/researching in order to try and recreate history in a much smaller scale, my "spidey-sense" tingles anytime someone comes along and declares their product, research, etc. as the living end, absolute certain truth. Over the years I've seen too many absolutes turned on their ear. Don't get me wrong, I'm in search of the truth as much as the next guy, and I'm all for better products in terms of documentation, authenticity, etc.
I look forward to trying DB paint if it ever makes its way to the U.S. I look forward to reading more about the research involved in its creation, etc. My apologies for raining on someone's parade, upsetting the apple cart, and rocking the boat in general.
Y'all have a good day,
Warren
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Gentlemen, unfortunately I am not from an English-speaking country I am from Czech Republic and my English is not very good. I did not say that these colors are only correct, but that the manufacturer has used its experience and expertise and colors made from pigments that were available at the time. Therefore, it is a high probability that they will be very similar to those that are used at that time.
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For years I have been fascinated by the colors of the early 1/28 Revell Camel kit, as depicted in the photo on the original box...even while realizing the colors in the photo are somewhat illusory due to the lighting and print. In the photo, the wheels and undersides appear distinctly cream colored, and in fact Testor's Cream enamel is almost a perfect match for that shade. The upper fuselage and wings appear almost blue green, a shade kind of approximating RGB 0/64/64. In the past I have even tried to match that color with various mixes based on medium ocean blues (Vallejo and other brands). I know full well neither shade, the cream nor the blue green, is historically accurate. But they ARE historically accurate for that Revell box art, LOL! And so they have a certain nostalgia value and a place in my heart and imagination.
Likewise, there is a well-known replica of the Fokker E.V built by Brian Coughlin, as photographed at Fantasy of Flight, etc., with lozenge and paint that is almost certainly not "historically accurate" but is still quite awesome in its own right...particularly the color scheme of the lozenge fabric. Even if no original lozenge fabric ever matched those colors, the effect on that airframe is esthetically stunning and beautiful. I would love to have lozenge decals in that color scheme whether they are historically accurate or not, because, at the very least...they are historically accurate for that replica and that replica in itself is an awesome piece of work.
So I think there is plenty of room for purists and impurists both to enjoy whatever is available in whatever way they choose to use it. I am instinctively rooting for the success of anyone who makes an effort to expand the range of what is available and possible for all modelers everywhere.
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Hellboy, your English is certainly better than my Czech! :-[ As I said above, translation problems were in my mind, but, I probably didn't take them into account enough. Sorry about that and I will try and do better about keeping it in mind.
Matt
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Lukas, Rowan, you both are certainly correct. In writing my post it did occur to me that it could be a translation problem and that is a big part of the reason I closed with the thought that they probably didn't mean it that way, but, that was how I understood it which in turn produced the reaction it did.
Written language is a grand thing and even between native speakers of a given language it is extraordinarily easy to take things the wrong way, throw in different languages and... look out.
Matt
I'd like to quote a dear old friend of mine regarding this very subject back on the 'drome: "Oh, Lord! Please don't let me be misunderstood" - Kevin McAvoy, quoting Gary Burdon, quoting Bennie Benjamin, Gloria Caldwell and Sol Marcus. Must give credit where credit's due, eh? Otherwise, a whole new set of misunderstanding could develop, creating a cataclysmic chain reaction resulting in disciplinary actions or worse. You know, the Great War began as a result of just such misunderstandings and look how that turned out.
Cheers,
Bud
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This whole discussion of "correct color" is very interesting to me. As an artist, I've spent my whole career searching for that elusive perfect color. The impressionists made an entire art movement based on this. The reality, in my opinion, is it doesn't exist. Color doesn't work in a vacuum, it is relative to the colors surrounding it, simultaneous contrast, ambient lighting, time of day, viewing distance, the list goes on.
If somehow a pristine batch of WW1 lozenge inks and paints appeared, and we used them on our model, it would probably appear too dark and to saturated. Lighting, whether incandescent, fluorescent, daylight balanced, etc., further changes the appearance. Color is a science when it comes to chemical makeup, perceptions in our eyes, etc., but what really makes it work for our purpose is when our artistic perception is employed.
When painting a model, the important considerations for me are where will the model ultimately be viewed, and does it look correct to my eye. If it looks correct, then it is correct, even if the "expert" doesn't think so. ;)
And as a side note: It is funny to me when people think they can tell color in a B&W photo. A shiny black surface in direct sunlight can appear white, and white can appear dark. You have to take the specularity of the surface into account. Values of black, white, and greys can sometimes be more linked to shininess than relative color value.
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And as a side note: It is funny to me when people think they can tell color in a B&W photo. A shiny black surface in direct sunlight can appear white, and white can appear dark. You have to take the specularity of the surface into account. Values of black, white, and greys can sometimes be more linked to shininess than relative color value.
I'll take it a step further -- you can't even depend on a COLOR photograph to judge the original color of an artifact with any real precision. The same factors, plus the type of film (or white balance) print gamut etc...
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Having had the Advantage of reading everyones post that came before me I will add my comment. I think that any attempt to use some basis of research for creating a line of WW1 pants is FANTASTIC! I know that at one time Richard of Aviattic had a line planned but Postal Regs put a damper on that phase of his planned business. The bottom line is we can assume that the paints will be a Good Starting point and most likely as accurate as possible. If it saves me time by not having to mix my own then that is TERRIFIC. Like Warren my biggest concern is will it be shippable to the States?
RAGIII
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Same here RAG, I'm really excited about them, but I'm dreading some bad news regarding postal regs. >:( >:( :( :'(
I've even considered trying to get a business license and becoming a U.S. stockist for this and the new iteration of WEM paints, but our house is very small, and I don't have room for inventory, shipping boxes, etc. If I can come up with an off-site space, I still might consider doing it for those of us in the U.S., Canada, etc.
As Pgtaylorart said, color is such a subjective thing. I remember some research some friends of mine were doing almost thirty years ago on some uniforms, and the subject of the "correct" color came up. Like Pgtaylorart, they said is was subject to so many variables (including the viewers age and even diet to boot) that it's just too hard to nail it down. Sometimes it's easier for us to say what it isn't rather than what it is.
Warren
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No U.S. Distribution?? oh well Ill stick with Tamiya til then or Misterkit comes back around.
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There is no distribution anywhere yet Cajun since the paint isn't being retailed anywhere yet. When it does come out, it will most likely have to come by surface shipping (Connex container on a ship) since it is a lacquer-based paint.
You can order MisterKit here in the U.S. anytime from Roll Models or from the manufacturer directly.
HTH, FWIW,
Warren
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i am a relative newbie to the field of ww1 aircraft, just under 8 or 9 years of serious devotion(although a lifelong fascination) that said i was around at the aerodrome 2007 thru to the great schism and have certainly read many a debate on color(pc-10/pc-12 etc),ortho film, i enjoyed the debates because i learned alot very quickly. the main thing i learned was this ww1 aircraft color stuff is an art not a science. i have to commend the members here as we basically get along well,encourage beginners, back slap the greats etc when it comes to modelling. i know it will nt descend to any kind of chaos due to the great and relevant things me mate rowan has said but also i want to add, many of the guys who were the ones who liked to argue are not here with us. some have passed away and some just havent signed on to our little utopia . all i am saying is many of those spoken of arent around these parts leaving us as mainly a group of buddies with common modelling goals and interests but none of us are truly experts to the point where what we say must be accepted as the be all end all. i dont see any of that nor the rivet counting that exists elsewhere ,ever being a problem here. we generally work things out with discussion see the other chaps point and agree to disagree at the worst case. at the best we agree and live happily on, showing our own interpretations which cannot be said to be right or wrong ,although many of us strive to be as accurate as possible, because we all have the sense to realize that not only does each monitor show color differently but you can take ten photos of a plane at a museum from 10 diff angels and due to lighting and angles of said lighting to the lens the color can show up lighter,darker,warmer or cooler in tone etc. in short this will not be a problem here. i am certain.
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One question to english native speakers (as I am not one) - does "drooling bulldog" have any negative conotation in english?
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i dont see any of that nor the rivet counting that exists elsewhere ,ever being a problem here. we generally work things out with discussion see the other chaps point and agree to disagree at the worst case. at the best we agree and live happily on, showing our own interpretations which cannot be said to be right or wrong ,although many of us strive to be as accurate as possible, because we all have the sense to realize that not only does each monitor show color differently but you can take ten photos of a plane at a museum from 10 diff angels and due to lighting and angles of said lighting to the lens the color can show up lighter,darker,warmer or cooler in tone etc. in short this will not be a problem here. i am certain.
I really agree with your assessment of our group on this forum. It is a very helpful and informative bunch. But, correct me if I'm wrong when it comes to those "rivet counters". They don't really exist here because these WWI aircraft didn't have many rivets, generally. 8)
I guess we need to refer to that mentality as "stitch counters" to make it more historically accurate! Lol ;) :P ::)
George
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One question to english native speakers (as I am not one) - does "drooling bulldog" have any negative conotation in english?
Very definitely!
I agree. It kind of an unpleasant image to think of a slobbery dog.
George
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Oooooops, thanks for the explanation, none of us had an idea that there can be a conotation like this. Thanks for the hint, this obviously was not a lucky choice.
Just to explain - the name was inspired by Sergey's best friend, his bulldog.
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Dear sirs! I think that I have to be presented, my name is Sergey Mertens, I am the academic artist and the passionate modeller. When I only started doing models of planes of Great War, indefinitely resolved an issue as it could look actually. Unfortunately the theory of determination of color in the black-and-white photo remains only the theory, I started looking for other way. I think that many of you don't see or don't understand a difference between a pigment, color or a shade. To you I won't give lecture about a chromatics, only I want to pay your attention that the pigment, is a component of the filled composite materials, opacity, the color giving to materials, anticorrosion and other properties. In technology of paints and varnishes pigments call the high-disperse inorganic or organic, insoluble substances in dispersive environments capable to form with filming agents protective, decorative or decorative sheetings. The soluble substances capable to paint other materials are called dyes.
Also, when we speak about a pigment, we speak about the constant and invariable size which looks equally both in Canada, and in Guadalajara or in Cambodia. It is ridiculous to assume that the German or British command ordered paints in China or India. The durability of planes was very short and for their painting cheap and readily available technical paints, typical about a certain geographical area were used. Can surprise nobody that many discoveries were made, only thanks to assumptions. I don't make any discovery, I simply systematize the historic facts, but not in the field of a militariya and in the field of paint and varnish coverings.
Don't forget please that an aviation hangar, it not the art studio, but thus in camouflage paints has to be the general system which will allow each squadron to paint planes equally. When we take together all pigments which were in the field used and had a technological capability of processing, we will receive quite big color scale. From this scale we will clean pigments, which poisonous, combustible and not stable. There is not such wide choice, don't think? It is necessary only to compare a chemical composition of pigments, to the chemical analysis of a canvas of the plane. Naturally to a realistic type of model of it it isn't enough, there is a lot of factors, measuring scale, light, satiety... but it already depends on the modeller. I only offer new, or better to say, old technology of work with paint as it was before hundred years. I think, what my education, me allows to consider itself as the expert in the field of a chromatics, but I don't understand why it is an arogantnost synonym? I am not a businessman, I am an artist... more than two years I am engaged in this research and I want to share with colleagues results. For the artist it is a great honor and prestige. Thanks for attention to my product and if you try it or not, is your good will.
I apologize for the English, I use the electronic translator... unfortunately there isn't enough time for discussion, but surely I will explain to you why the bulldog slobbers...
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von Mertens,
First, welcome to the forum!!! :) Secondly, sometimes translator programs do a good job, sometimes not so much. It helps me/us to know that is what y'all are using so that we can make allowance etc. for the issues those programs raise at times. I think you and Hellboy will find that we will be a very receptive audience to your research, etc. I will be looking forward to your future posts.
ALBATROS1234,
In my prior avocation I was not known as a "rivet-counter", but as a "stitch-nazi", and I was proud of the title. ;) However, recreating history as we were doing it was very different than recreating it in miniature, so it's not quite the same thing.
All,
This discussion has made me want to dig out my old digital copy of Project Butterfly. I wonder if Des will let me post a copy of it here?
Warren
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von Mertens,
Thank you very much for all your hard work into the study of color. I didn't mean to be disrespectful or dismissive of your work. My main point was that color is relative to the color adjacent to it and can appear very different in combination, vs on its own. Please keep up your work. I am very interested in trying your paints if they become available in the US. I'm open to anything that helps get us closer to historical accuracy in our models.
Thanks and keep up the good work,
George
PS: bulldogs are a cool, strong, tough dog, maybe the drooling part needs to be dropped. I understand where you got the image, but the drooling part is less important, and here in the US has a negative image. Bulldog Pigments, or Bulldog Paints might work well.
George
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I dunno, perhaps the name is different enough to make it a success? How many of us have used Games Workshop paints for years, and yet delighted in the disgusting color callouts such as vomit green, rotting flesh brown, etc.? ::)
Warren
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I live in the US what is the negative image? A drooling dog? All dogs drool and they are still Mans best Friend aren't they....I can't imagine anyone in the world would be upset by this? Are we that sensitive? It's funny, maybe we need to laugh a little more. If the product is good who cares what it's called? If it's that upsetting then there are plenty of other paints available with safe names. The guy is trying to start a company and people are making fun of the name? That's not very nice.....
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It appears we are a people separated by a common language, and cultural mores that go with it. As Zavod said, here in the U.S. the name is a non-issue, but in other areas of the English-speaking world it carries a different connotation. I remember a recent falling out on another forum due to someone in the U.S. using a term that has no meaning one way or the other offending someone from one of the former colonies greatly. The former colonial assumed (and we all know what assuming gets you, don't we?), very wrongly, that everyone knew what it meant, when in fact, not everyone did.
Warren
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Uh... maybe I hang out with the wrong crowd but definitely a seriously awful connotation where I come from...
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the name doesnt bother me, my dog is like my child to me. i care only how the paint performs.
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I would'nt worry about the name. I'm a guitar maker by profession and all you have to do is look in a guitar magazine at the available guitar effects pedals names like snarling dog, pig nose etc, etc,
We did have a white boxer dog when I was a kid and Drooling Boxer was certainly an apt name for him, especially after he had got stung in the chops by a wasp, needed a bucket and mop to clean up all that drool !!!
Cheers
Andrew
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Calling it DB's has a far more positive crude connotation here in the UK. "That model is the DB's " for example. Mutts nuts.
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Honestly, regardless of the name and the connotation, if the paint is good and adds to our hobby in a positive way, I'll be interested I trying it out.
One thing you can say for the name, it is memorable!
George
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Ok, guys, to summ up the discussion on the name. ;D
"A rose by any other name would smell as sweet"
Many thanks to all of you for letting me recognize that I still have a lot to learn about english - I did not ring any bells hearing the name for the first time. I speak english every day at work but still there are nuances you do not notice unless you are a native speaker. ;) I am not part of the Drooling Bulldog project, my role is purely supportive in cases of necessity, but I should have made a deeper research on the name and possible connotations. Should have anyone felt confused or disgusted, my deepest apologies. I should have recognized the possible risk and warned my friends Hellboy and Sergey.
Cheers
Ondra
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Dear sirs! I want to explain emergence of the name, it is a pity to me that it causes negative associations in many, but I didn't want anybody to offend. The idea of a logo arose thanks to the Fokker DVII that Otto Meyer plane. Still nobody can tell with confidence if the represented dog, is a bulldog. This breed of dog not typical for Germany, there are assumptions that it is the boxer... but it only assumptions. Anyway this plane was called a drooling bulldog or slobbers boxer. My best friend, is a bulldog and he always slobbers when something wants to get. I do too most when I see fine model of the plane. I think that really matters, this quality of paint. As for the name, this bright phrase which remains in memory. It is impossible to be absolutely correct for all ethnic groups. You know that the name of the wizard Gandalf, in the Hungarian language means? On the Hungarian slang it means a penis. Poor wizard...
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I don't want to seem haughtiness, but I think that the word "authentic", is used correctly. I don't want to offend manufacturers of paints, but nevertheless I am the first researcher who proved to define pigments which were used at that time. All the same, each modeller, is guided by the intuition and therefore our hobby leaves to everyone, an infinite scope about the imagination... ::)
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Actually, I was painting my kits with Pactra "Authentic" colors in the 60's and 70's, so I guess mine were right and everyone else's were wrong? ??? Awesome! ;) 8) ::)
Von Mertens, your translator has failed you again I'm afraid my friend, but you are NOT the first researcher to "define pigments which were used during WWI". There was a group of researchers (Alan Toelle, H. D. Hastings, B. F. Hardesty, and H. L. Edman) that published Project Butterfly back in 1972 in Cross & Cockade magazine, and their research defined the pigments, colors, and methods used on French five-color camouflage. I also believe that extensive research has been previously done on Manfred von Richtofen's Dr.I 425/17, as well as pigments/paints used on the Fokker D.VIII/E.V, and some others. Now, you might be the first person to do research on pigments and produce a paint aimed at scale modelers, but you're not the first person to research pigments of the period.
A pity about Gandalf . . . poor fellow, bet if he walked into a bar in Hungary, the patrons would all laugh. :D
Warren
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It is very unpleasant to me that I am compelled to discuss with you through the translator and I hope that you excuse me... Naturally I am informed on researches in this area and I respect hard work of my colleagues. I will tell more, my work wouldn't be possible, without exact chemical analysis of the remained samples. Pay attention that my statement for authenticity of pigments, belongs only to the German aircraft.
I am sorry if it sounded is boastful... :-[ but I am really sure that now the palette of the German paints is fully completed...
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Dear sirs! I want to explain emergence of the name, it is a pity to me that it causes negative associations in many, but I didn't want anybody to offend. The idea of a logo arose thanks to the Fokker DVII that Otto Meyer plane. Still nobody can tell with confidence if the represented dog, is a bulldog. This breed of dog not typical for Germany, there are assumptions that it is the boxer... but it only assumptions. Anyway this plane was called a drooling bulldog or slobbers boxer. My best friend, is a bulldog and he always slobbers when something wants to get. I do too most when I see fine model of the plane. I think that really matters, this quality of paint. As for the name, this bright phrase which remains in memory. It is impossible to be absolutely correct for all ethnic groups. You know that the name of the wizard Gandalf, in the Hungarian language means? On the Hungarian slang it means a penis. Poor wizard...
Hi Von Mertens
I would say that the dog is not a Boxer as they have their tails cut off at an early age (at least until recently) and also from what I have googled bulldogs also have clipped tails. It was probably a pet mongrel. It is interesting to see see that your'e colours are to be cellulose based. This is probably going to cause you some problems with shipping the paints by air freight as it's highly inflammable.
Cheers
Andrew
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It is very unpleasant to me that I am compelled to discuss with you through the translator and I hope that you excuse me... Naturally I am informed on researches in this area and I respect hard work of my colleagues. I will tell more, my work wouldn't be possible, without exact chemical analysis of the remained samples. Pay attention that my statement for authenticity of pigments, belongs only to the German aircraft.
I am sorry if it sounded is boastful... :-[ but I am really sure that now the palette of the German paints is fully completed...
I'm very sorry that you've had to struggle with the translator to explain your work. I, for one, am very excited about your new line of paints and sincerely hope that I will be able to buy them here in the US. Best of luck to you, sir.
Cheers,
Bud
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I'm really excited about them too von Mertens, I just wish there was a way I could become a dealer for you.
Warren
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I didn't realize that my little 'riposte' to Warren was going to cause such a fuss and it was not said in all seriousness. Still, I agree with Rowan that if we are going to try and make our models look realistic - and God knows that WNW (among others) are doing their best for us in that direction, that we also do the same for the colours - but it is a free world and one can do as Bo has done - if you want.
I am not a colour 'Nazi' - just interested in what evidence there is and making links. In my posts on the Aerodrome site looking at published Methuen matches (and a few here but I don't think people are really interested) there was never any suggestion that any colour matches were the 'right' or correct one - only that "here is what has been recorded from fabric, paintings etc, or extrapolated from colour names (e.g. the "bilious"/"emerald green" for a couple Jasta 30 Albatros can be directly related to chromium oxide or hydrated chromium oxide pigments)" - they are starting points or a guide.
I for one will certainly keep a lookout for the Drooling Bulldog (actually boxer) paints when they appear.
Cheers to all!
GrahamB
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I thank you for interest in my work! Soon we are going to publish article in which all aspects of this research will be shown. Paints can already be bought in Europe. Now we look for possibility of distribution to the USA... very much I hope that we will manage it. For the European customers orders are accepted on E-mail: [email protected]. Once again I thank for support!
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I thank you for interest in my work! Soon we are going to publish article in which all aspects of this research will be shown. Paints can already be bought in Europe. Now we look for possibility of distribution to the USA... very much I hope that we will manage it. For the European customers orders are accepted on E-mail: [email protected]. Once again I thank for support!
Hi Martens
I tried your email link to get a price list from you but the email was returned. Maybe you can list prices on the forum or at least check the link.
Cheers
Andrew
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In my posts on the Aerodrome site looking at published Methuen matches (and a few here but I don't think people are really interested)
That's too bad you got that impression ... :(
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I thank you for interest in my work! Soon we are going to publish article in which all aspects of this research will be shown. Paints can already be bought in Europe. Now we look for possibility of distribution to the USA... very much I hope that we will manage it. For the European customers orders are accepted on E-mail: [email protected]. Once again I thank for support!
Hi Martens
I tried your email link to get a price list from you but the email was returned. Maybe you can list prices on the forum or at least check the link.
Cheers
Andrew
accept my apologies... typographical error...
correct address of e-mail: [email protected]
the site in the Czech language: http://www.droolingbulldog.com/
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The testing of top German camouflage colors.
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Oh, man, I really like those colors! Sure hope you can ship them to the States.
Cheers,
Bud
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I had thought of von Meyers cartoon as a 'Junkyard Dog'. Not sure if there was a German equivalent back in the day.
What I hope to see on this venture would be a durable paint. Mr. Kit from Italy made a good effort on WWI Colors but their paint had a reputation for being fragile. Gunze was a personal favorite, but issues with labeling, an ingredient and the attitude of the owner caused them to withdraw from the US market. Not a WWI specialty provider, but they had a large range of well behaved paints.
David
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Hello everybody,
I have some good news. ;)
We researched thoroughly the possibilities of shipping the paints to US and other countries and I am glad to say we are on a good way to make it happen. As soon as I have found a final solution I will share with you.
Hellboy and Sergey are working hard on the first public presentation of Bulldog paints now, which will take place at a local contest next weekend. As a supporting element I will of course be there and try to get some photos. One of the best czech experts on WWI aviation scale modelling will have a workshop on Bulldog paints, perhaps we will be able to make a video spot and share with you.
As I am not the Genie with the know-how and knowledge on the background of how the paints were made and what the research is based on, I am happy to be a testing user, so I will join the mini group build with a scratch build Albie D.Va of Paul Bäumer from Jasta 5 (of course in my scale, 1/144). The choice was driven by the very aspect to test as many Bulldog paints as possible. The progress will not be fast but I promise to do my best. Really looking forward to seeing how the Jasta 5 green will work out, even more curious about the Mauve.
We are doing our best to let you test the Bulldog paints as soon as possible. ;)
Best
Ondra
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Thanks for the update, Ondra, and good luck with the D.Va.
Best wishes
Nigel
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As Nigel said, thanks for the update, and please do keep us posted. I can't wait to try them out.
Warren
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very good to here, i want to try drooling bulldog paints
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Thank you for the positive comments, guys.
We are working hard on searching for the options to deliver the paints to as many folks as possible.
Next Saturday I will meet Sergey and Hellboy personally (after half a year) and I have a long list of issues regarding to Bulldog paints. Next steps will be the english version of e-shop and distribution to countries like US, Australia and NZ.
Please keep your fingers crossed for Sergey and Hellboy, they have done a great job so far, I am really astonished of the quality of their products and will do my best to support them in terms of bringing the Bulldog paints to the relevant users.
Cheers
Ondra
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I'm holding my thumbs!
Warren
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Very good news, Ondra! Really looking forward to trying them.
Cheers,
Bud
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Very good news, Ondra! Really looking forward to trying them.
Cheers,
Bud
Same here! Glad to hear you have shipping to the US worked out!
RAGIII
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Is it possible give your side an second language like english for all in the Forum?
Martin
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Hi Martin,
The Red Baron is right, the english version of the e-shop is Nr. 1 on our to do list, there are technical issues of multilanguage support on the host server, but I am sure we can sort it out in short time. Once resolved, we will be able to serve demand from abroad like Germany, Poland etc.
Afterwards the next step should be countries like US, Australia, NZ etc. outside the EU region.
I will post an up-date on the progress next week after discussion with Sergey and Hellboy.
Cheers
Ondra
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Hello everybody,
just in between let me please share a review of the first 10 Bulldog paints published at Large Scale Modeller with you:
http://forum.largescalemodeller.com/topic/3575-drooling-bulldog-the-very-first-10-shades/ (http://forum.largescalemodeller.com/topic/3575-drooling-bulldog-the-very-first-10-shades/)
Cheers
Ondra
NB: This link has been posted with the permission of the forum administrator.
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Hello everybody,
as promised, here a brief up-date after saturday's meeting with Sergey and Hellboy:
- first good news, there WILL be the english version of Bulldog e-shop - we decided to replace the czech version with english, this will be finished within days
- second good news, the workshop with Bulldog paints at the modelling contest I have mentioned was very successful, I will share a video from the workshop with you as soon as possible. One of the best WWI modellers, Sláva Vaňous, shows there work with Bulldog paints
- third good news - we made quite a progress regarding to distribution to countries outside of EU, most probably we will go for selling via eBay (this is a preliminary information, however)
Please feel free to ask questions if you are interested in further details. ;)
Cheers
Ondra
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And here are pictures of the first WWI model bulit using Bulldog paints (before weathering). It was bulit by our friend Vilém and gained 2nd prize at the contest on Saturday.
Enjoy. ;)
Ondra
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag72/ondrejmokry/Alb%20D.I%201_zps7db4df5a.jpg) (http://s1299.photobucket.com/user/ondrejmokry/media/Alb%20D.I%201_zps7db4df5a.jpg.html)
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag72/ondrejmokry/Alb%20D.I%204_zpsb2d2ekck.jpg) (http://s1299.photobucket.com/user/ondrejmokry/media/Alb%20D.I%204_zpsb2d2ekck.jpg.html)
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag72/ondrejmokry/Alb%20D.I%205_zpsso6m3y6b.jpg) (http://s1299.photobucket.com/user/ondrejmokry/media/Alb%20D.I%205_zpsso6m3y6b.jpg.html)
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag72/ondrejmokry/Alb%20D.I%203_zps1hqwbnyv.jpg) (http://s1299.photobucket.com/user/ondrejmokry/media/Alb%20D.I%203_zps1hqwbnyv.jpg.html)
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag72/ondrejmokry/Alb%20D.I%202_zpszkdxnydb.jpg) (http://s1299.photobucket.com/user/ondrejmokry/media/Alb%20D.I%202_zpszkdxnydb.jpg.html)
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Gooooood looking!!
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Beautiful color on that! I like it!
Warren
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That is a very impressive colour, well done.
Des.
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Really grabs ones attention ..
Terri
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Hello everybody,
I am glad to announce that the Bulldog webshop is finally available in english language.
http://www.droolingbulldog.com/ (http://www.droolingbulldog.com/)
So far, we have translated the main categories, where products are currently available.
Further sections, where we are working on products preparation (e. g. turnbuckles, masks etc.), will be translated later.
So please consider this as an interim solution meant to give you the possibility to have a look at "what we have now".
At this point of time, we are able to distribute the paints to countries within European Union, Hellboy is working hard on distribution to countries like US, Australia and New Zealand. Last week we sent a few samples to WNW, now we are awaiting whether the parcel will arrive without complications. Will keep you updated.
In case of any questions or more details needed, please feel free to contact me any time, I will be happy to help and support.
Cheers
Ondra
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Edit to previous post: I deleted the prices, apologies to Des, I did not intend to break the rules of this section.
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Hello everybody,
I am back with an up-date - the first parcels with Bulldog paints have reached their customers in Germany, further are underway to New Zealand, USA and Australia - hopefully all will arrive without complications (Sergey and Hellboy had a long discussion with the customs). We should know the result within a few days.
Meanwhile, please let me share photos of another build featuring Bulldog paints, it is an Albatros D.II (Eduard, 1/48) built by our friend Vilem. The model shows the machine flown by Otto Gerbig from Jasta 14. HGW decals were used for woodgrain. All paints used on this build come from Drooling Bulldog.
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag72/ondrejmokry/025_zpsy5xl24uq.jpg) (http://s1299.photobucket.com/user/ondrejmokry/media/025_zpsy5xl24uq.jpg.html)
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag72/ondrejmokry/028_zpspnprp1zv.jpg) (http://s1299.photobucket.com/user/ondrejmokry/media/028_zpspnprp1zv.jpg.html)
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag72/ondrejmokry/026_zpszzr7esoa.jpg) (http://s1299.photobucket.com/user/ondrejmokry/media/026_zpszzr7esoa.jpg.html)
The photos show the model before rigging and weathering.
Cheers
Ondra
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the first parcels with Bulldog paints have reached their customers in Germany, further are underway to New Zealand, USA and Australia - hopefully all will arrive without complications (Sergey and Hellboy had a long discussion with the customs). We should know the result within a few days.
Very nice Ondra! So, you are saying U.S. and other overseas customers can order these paints now?
Warren
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the first parcels with Bulldog paints have reached their customers in Germany, further are underway to New Zealand, USA and Australia - hopefully all will arrive without complications (Sergey and Hellboy had a long discussion with the customs). We should know the result within a few days.
Very nice Ondra! So, you are saying U.S. and other overseas customers can order these paints now?
Warren
Hi Warren, as the Germans say: Jain (which is something between yes and no). :)
Sergey told me he had received orders among other from US and as far as I know he sent the parcels by Wednesday. Now we have to wait for their arrival at the customers to be sure everything is ok - we did our best with the preparation of all documents necessary, but you never know what the reality will look like.
So at this point of time I would suggest to wait for the confirmation that the paints reached their destination without problems with customs. Sergey promised me to let me know as soon as possible and of course I will post the result here.
Keep your fingers crossed for us. :)
Ondra
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Lovely paints Ondra.
Martin
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Lovely! I like the colors, Ondra. Looking forward to ordering some.
Cheers,
Bud
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i really like the colors , too many times modellers use colors from the modern palette, thats when you see the red baron tripe painted in ferrari red. pigment technology was no where near as developed and colors would have been more greyish and not as saturated. i am really liking these drooling bulldog tones, they are more of cooler winter tones not bright summery tones which is what i think they should be logically.
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Dear friends and colleagues! Very good news, the first parcel to the USA, was delivered without problems. I very much worried that there will be problems at customs, but it didn't occur! So, everyone to try paints of a Bulldog, can make the order on our web http://www.droolingbulldog.com/ (http://www.droolingbulldog.com/). Regards Mertens
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Outstanding news. I will put together an order soon!
RAGIII
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That is truly EXCELLENT news! I'll order some soon hopefully.
Warren
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Great news, Sergey, I am really happy things have moved forward finally.
RAGIII and WarrenD: should you need any support on ordering please feel free to contact me, will be happy to help. ;)
Cheers
Ondra
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Yes, that is great news, Sergey! I'm always open to trying new paints in search of the elusive "perfect paint".
Thanks,
George
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Thank you so much for the kind offer Ondra, I may have to call on you, but let's hope all will go smooth. I'm sure it will.
Warren
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Hello everybody,
on behalf of Sergey please let me post one photo of his latest finished build, the Phönix D.I (Special Hobby, 1/48) painted with Bulldog paints. More photos in better quality will follow as soon as possible. As Sergey told me the mottled camouflage was done with airbrush and some sort of special tool (as soon as Sergey shows me the method, I will share, of course).
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag72/ondrejmokry/11270595_877219488982758_6310420200550659704_o_zpslv9zhzfs.jpg) (http://s1299.photobucket.com/user/ondrejmokry/media/11270595_877219488982758_6310420200550659704_o_zpslv9zhzfs.jpg.html)
P.S.: Many thanks for your support, George, Rick and Warren!
Ondra
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What is needed for thinking the paint or cleaning the brushes?
Martin
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Hi Martin,
these paints are compatible with Gunze Mr. Color thinners and cleaners.
Ondra
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Ondra,
Is there a non-branded thinner or cleaner you can recommend? Lacquer thinner? Mineral spirits?
Warren
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Ondra,
Is there a non-branded thinner or cleaner you can recommend? Lacquer thinner? Mineral spirits?
Warren
Warren, with Gunze Mr. Color paints, I just use good ole Lacquer thinner from Home Depot and it works great.
Cheers,
Bud
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Ondra,
Is there a non-branded thinner or cleaner you can recommend? Lacquer thinner? Mineral spirits?
Warren
Warren, with Gunze Mr. Color paints, I just use good ole Lacquer thinner from Home Depot and it works great.
Cheers,
Bud
Yep, I agree with Bud! ( Although my Lacquer thinner comes from Wal-Mart) 8)
RAGIII
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Thanks pards. I know there are two different lines of Gunze paints, and I can never keep straight which one is which, and which one uses what.
Warren
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I use lacquer thinners for the Gunze/MrHobby 'aqueous' range too, instead of the required alcohol-based thinners. Seems to make it flow better and produces a more resilient finish.
cheers,
GrahamB
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Thanks Graham! I really need to make a small notebook to keep next to the workbench with all of these pearls of knowledge so I don't have to keep pestering y'all.
Warren
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Hello everybody,
please let me show you another model featuring Bulldog paints, this time it is a WNW Fokker D.VIIF bulit by Michal Švehla. The red paint is DB kraplak. I for one love the translucent lozenge effect on the fuselage.
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag72/ondrejmokry/002_zpsdpyjxysk.jpg) (http://s1299.photobucket.com/user/ondrejmokry/media/002_zpsdpyjxysk.jpg.html)
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag72/ondrejmokry/003_zps4dgwjuzq.jpg) (http://s1299.photobucket.com/user/ondrejmokry/media/003_zps4dgwjuzq.jpg.html)
Cheers
Ondra
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That D.VII looks great! The red is a very nice color and I also like the lozenge showing through a bit. Thanks, Ondra. :)
George
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Got my 2 bottles within a week in Canada. Have not tried yet, but man that was fast.
James
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Oh, yeah! I like that red!
Cheers,
Bud
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Sorry, Michael, you are right. I did not notice I actually used the word "kraplak" in the previous post. The correct english name should be alizarin or Madder Lake deep.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alizarin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alizarin)
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I rather like the term Kraplak. I think I shall use it as often as is permissible for now on. ;) :D
Warren
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Oh, now I'm embarrassed. I thought it was just short for krapalakadingdong. Whatever the meaning, I really love the color. In fact, I think I'm going to model "Lo" just so I can use it.
Cheers,
Bud
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Oh, now I'm embarrassed. I thought it was just short for krapalakadingdong. Whatever the meaning, I really love the color. In fact, I think I'm going to model "Lo" just so I can use it.
Cheers,
Bud
Hi Bud, what is krapalakdingdong? :) You guys really keep showing me new horizons in terms of english vocabulary. :)
Cheers
Ondra
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Yeah, I would have forgotten - as far as I could find out, the word Kraplak most probably comes from netherlands and means madder lake.
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It's hard to describe exactly what it is, Ondra. I like to use it in place of words that are not considered socially acceptable. For example, when your boss gives you direction you don't agree with, you can say, "Sir, with all due respect, that's pure krapalakadingdong." My with calls me a wordsmith. I don't think she really means it as a compliment.
Cheers,
Bud
PS-Ondra, I think your command of English is quite good.
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Many thanks for the explanation, Bud, english keeps surprising me time and again. :)
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Many thanks for the explanation, Bud, english keeps surprising me time and again. :)
Me, too. ;)
Cheers,
Bud
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Ondra,
I teach reading/adult literacy, and as I tell my students, English is a pretty screwed up language.
Warren
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Hello everybody,
I am back with a small up-date and one question to the forumites.
Here the up-date, please let me show the photos of Sergey's Dreidecker (1/48 Eduard), red kraplak and zinc white were used on this model. I like the various shades of the red depending on the colour underneath (as you can see, the cowling, wheel discs and struts have each a different shade of red, whereas all were painted with the same paint).
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag72/ondrejmokry/brno1_zps05hvneud.jpg) (http://s1299.photobucket.com/user/ondrejmokry/media/brno1_zps05hvneud.jpg.html)
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag72/ondrejmokry/brno2_zpsexvvfw8m.jpg) (http://s1299.photobucket.com/user/ondrejmokry/media/brno2_zpsexvvfw8m.jpg.html)
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag72/ondrejmokry/brno3_zps1upewuws.jpg) (http://s1299.photobucket.com/user/ondrejmokry/media/brno3_zps1upewuws.jpg.html)
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag72/ondrejmokry/brno4_zpsg74irinu.jpg) (http://s1299.photobucket.com/user/ondrejmokry/media/brno4_zpsg74irinu.jpg.html)
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag72/ondrejmokry/brno5_zpszzdymyfo.jpg) (http://s1299.photobucket.com/user/ondrejmokry/media/brno5_zpszzdymyfo.jpg.html)
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag72/ondrejmokry/brno6_zpsyaxaljfg.jpg) (http://s1299.photobucket.com/user/ondrejmokry/media/brno6_zpsyaxaljfg.jpg.html)
And the question to the forumites: I met Sergey last weekend at a local contest and during the discussion we came to the idea of a product that could be useful for WWI modellers.
We think of offering sets of paints meant for roundels (british, french, italian, russian) created the same way as the DB colours and having same features (i. e. fine pigment allowing for playing around with translucency and base colour). The use is obvious, allied types produces by WnW and other producers (like e. g. the HPH Macchi 1/32 or the upcoming Aviattic releases). Of course other scales would be a possibility, too.
This would be an alternative to the decals, the masks could be provided as well.
Could you please give us your feedback whether this would be a relevant product for you?
Many thanks for your help and hints.
Cheers.
Ondra
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I would use them. I use Montex masks in 1/24 and it would be nice to have weathered national markings on my WNW.
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Yes, I prefer the look of painted roundels instead of decals. I'm interested.
George
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This sounds like a great idea! I will certainly be interested.
RAGIII
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first i must say that the dr.1 above is a masterpiece of model work, i love the paint effects. next i this this is a good idea to myself and this would be an inexpensive way to create new commerce for db paints with sets of colors and masks.as soon as i get more financially stable i plan to get some drooling bulldog products, i have been to the website several times to see the progress.
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Sure! I make my own masks but the colors would be welcome.
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I absolutely love the effect of the Kraplack! I too would try to use the roundel paint.
I really must cut out some time for modeling, and get some of these paints!
Warren
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Many thanks to all of you for your feedback, I will forward your answers to Sergey. The research on the original paints/pigments used has started already. ;)
And thanks to Bo for mentioning the fair point about masks, most probably it will be better to offer the masks separately just for the case some modellers have their own plotter.
Btw. despite its strange name Kraplak is getting pretty popular. :)
These are fotos of Hellboy's WIP on Eduard 1/48 SSW D.III, I am getting more and more amazed of the effects achievable with the translucency.
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag72/ondrejmokry/11540908_1768546360038697_5991288317126034064_n_zpseraxpxh1.jpg) (http://s1299.photobucket.com/user/ondrejmokry/media/11540908_1768546360038697_5991288317126034064_n_zpseraxpxh1.jpg.html)
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag72/ondrejmokry/11655527_1768540543372612_678247668_n_zpswdxs8wom.jpg) (http://s1299.photobucket.com/user/ondrejmokry/media/11655527_1768540543372612_678247668_n_zpswdxs8wom.jpg.html)
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag72/ondrejmokry/11668076_1768540660039267_2018288545_n_zpsurooby5c.jpg) (http://s1299.photobucket.com/user/ondrejmokry/media/11668076_1768540660039267_2018288545_n_zpsurooby5c.jpg.html)
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag72/ondrejmokry/11651022_1768540556705944_903945521_n_zpsxaggz2v8.jpg) (http://s1299.photobucket.com/user/ondrejmokry/media/11651022_1768540556705944_903945521_n_zpsxaggz2v8.jpg.html)
Cheers
Ondra
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very very nice
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That is awesome! The translucency is amazing!
RAGIII
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Very nice, I'm still not clear about the availability of these paints worldwide (NZ for example). Are they restricted to Europe? The website is quite opaque in this regard.
Any pointers gratefully recieved.
Cheers,
GrahamB
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Hi Graham,
at this point of time the paints can be distributed to Europe as well as US, whereas NZ and Australia still remain an open issue. Due to strong restrictions ground shipping must be used.
We sent one package to NZ and one to Australia approximately 3 months ago and have not heard of them yet. Last week we asked the CZ post office to check the status and we were told that the package can take up to 5 (!) months to arrive.
Now we are thinking about other distribution channels for NZ and Australia, as half a year for delivery is not acceptable. If anyone has an idea, hints and tipps are very welcome.
Sorry for the bad news, we will do our best to pave the way to NZ and australian customers for DB paints.
Cheers
Ondra
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Test paints for hand paint lozenge on a canvas
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Dear colleagues! The Drooling Bulldog starts working with paints for the British aircrafts of Great War. Big gratitude to Libor Mužík for the provided material!
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What colors will be offered in the Royal Flying Corps range?
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Ondra and VonMertens,
Reading and seeing the results of using Drolling Bulldog paints I am completely convinced DB is on to a great thing here. I am very much impressed with what I have seen included in the thread my friends.
Kraplak is outstanding,exactly the shade of red I have hoped for so long. Udet's D.VII shown is absolutely awesome and exactly as I have alway thought the actual aircraft would have appeared in person. Your PC-10 test as well as the German lozenge test pieces are equally impressive. I seldom have used paint mask for my markings but I believe the idea of combining a paint set with the masks is another excellent idea. One I certainly would be willing to apply to any future model projects. I also believe a full line of DB paints would be a boon to all modeler especially those of us who model in WWI aircraft.
Is there a U.S. distributor yet for DB Paints? If not yet where can one purchase them. Keep up the outstanding progress on this product line.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
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Hi Eric and Gregory,
many thanks for your interest in the DB colours.
First of all, I would like to mention that Sergey Mertens is the guy with the know how that created the DB paints, my contribution to the project is limited solely to paints testing and communication in english. :)
@Eric Armstrong: Sergey told me that there were 5 various "recipes" for PC 10 (Hellboy found description of ingredients), so far one PC 10 is ready. PC 12 is in preparation and now Sergey and Hellboy work on PC 8 research. The PC 10 should soon appear on one test build and should be available in the webshop by end of August.
@Gregory Jouette: many thanks for your encouraging comments, Gregory! US customers can order directly from the Drooling Bulldog webshop, the shipping time is about 3 weeks, but I am happy to say that we are able to ship to US without problems now.
Btw. the lozenge is meant for the Hannover CL.II/III's centre wing sections, where hand painted lozenge was applied. This had not been mentioned explicitly so far. I am really keen on seeing the final result in person.
Of course feel free to contact me any time in case of questions or support needed, will be happy to help.
Cheers
Ondra
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The PC 10 looks good. I am interested in seeing the results of 5 formulas.
RAGIII
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" US customers can order directly from the Drooling Bulldog webshop, the shipping time is about 3 weeks, but I am happy to say that we are able to ship to US without problems now."
Ondra,
Have you made any progress on orders from Canada? These products look very interesting.
Cheers,
Lance
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I second that from Canada. We have all those bilingual labeling problems if it was to be marketed here so buying it offshore is probably the route we would have to go.
Steve
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Thanks for your interest in our podukt. We already sent some orders to Canada, everything was without problems... ;D
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Hi Eric and Gregory,
Btw. the lozenge is meant for the Hannover CL.II/III's centre wing sections, where hand painted lozenge was applied. This had not been mentioned explicitly so far. I am really keen on seeing the final result in person.
Of course feel free to contact me any time in case of questions or support needed, will be happy to help.
Cheers
Ondra
Thats good news. I understand that the undersides of Hannover wing center sections were also painted with lozenge. Will there be development of colors that will work for the undersides of the aircraft, too?
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Certainly! It is in development!
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Certainly! It is in development!
Okay, I'm impressed!
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Talking about the hand painted lozenge, Hellboy asked me today to post the photos from his testing on these paints.
The colours have not been lightened up to scale in order to show the basic shade.
These are the five shades:
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag72/ondrejmokry/11846721_107053362977542_8898658277047051923_n_zpshkxpq8as.jpg) (http://s1299.photobucket.com/user/ondrejmokry/media/11846721_107053362977542_8898658277047051923_n_zpshkxpq8as.jpg.html)
Here comparison with Aviattic lozenge:
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag72/ondrejmokry/11828556_107053382977540_3014849406038203615_n_zpsa57iclel.jpg) (http://s1299.photobucket.com/user/ondrejmokry/media/11828556_107053382977540_3014849406038203615_n_zpsa57iclel.jpg.html)
And here with weathered HGW lozenge:
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag72/ondrejmokry/11822368_107053412977537_1620220926215719375_n_zpswc7h9dwa.jpg) (http://s1299.photobucket.com/user/ondrejmokry/media/11822368_107053412977537_1620220926215719375_n_zpswc7h9dwa.jpg.html)
Many thanks in advance for your comments and thoughts.
Cheers
Ondra
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Ondra and Von Mertens, any plans on making Gotha Blue? It would be awesome for folks like myself who plan on building the Wingnut Gotha someday.
Thanks
James Sontag
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Hi Eric and Gregory,
many thanks for your interest in the DB colours.
@Eric Armstrong: ...Sergey and Hellboy work on PC 8 research.
Of course feel free to contact me any time in case of questions or support needed, will be happy to help.
Cheers
Ondra
What was PC 8? I have not heard of this color. I am a relative novice on RFC colors from the Great War. When was it used? and on what was it used?
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Ondra and Von Mertens, any plans on making Gotha Blue? It would be awesome for folks like myself who plan on building the Wingnut Gotha someday.
Thanks
James Sontag
James, I don't pretend to know or have any superior knowledge on the subject, but two (2) of those special lozenge colors for the Hannover sure look like they could pass for LVG purple and blue, permitting the building of an LVG Gotha. You are no doubt talking about the overall light color used on Gotha, built machines.
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Eric, yep, I'm talking about the overall light color on the Gotha built aircraft.
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Hi everybody,
I am back with some good news, the first parcel with DB paints has reached Australia via airmail!
Now the point we have to find a solution for:
- shipping to Australia via mail (i. e. by ship) can take up to 6 months :o
- via airmail we are able to achieve delivery time of 3-4 weeks, but...
...shipping via mail costs app. 32 AUD per parcel (but who wants to wait for a parcel for half a year, right?), in case of airmail we even talk about 56 AUD. Bernie (Sergey's Bulldog and our mascot) was not very happy to hear that - see the picture. :)
In the next step we are going to check the shipping costs in terms of weight limits, as it would make sense to send bundled orders - we have to find out the threshold from which on the shipping costs are higher.
I will keep you up-dated.
To your questions:
- PC 8 is a paint used by RFC in early years of WWI (1915) and is assumed to have been used e. g. on Bristol Scouts. I am not very deep into this topic so I only have very basic knowledge, I will ask Hellboy to provide more info.
- Gotha blue - I will meet Sergey next week in person and mention this, I will come back with an answer asap. ;)
Cheers
Ondra
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Hi Eric and Gregory,
many thanks for your interest in the DB colours.
@Eric Armstrong: ...Sergey and Hellboy work on PC 8 research.
Of course feel free to contact me any time in case of questions or support needed, will be happy to help.
Cheers
Ondra
What was PC 8? I have not heard of this color. I am a relative novice on RFC colors from the Great War. When was it used? and on what was it used?
PC8 was a colour used by the RFC when they moved away from CDL and started to camouflage their aircraft - it was more of a dirty beige than anything else and was later over painted with PC10.
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The PC8 is probably little more complicated. Sometimes this is called a color that was used on British aircraft before using PC10. But under this designation occurs on some instructions Wingnut Wings. I think it was a green color similar to the technique used on the ground. We're trying to trace more infotmace about it.
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It was a field applicated tinted dope varnish with no real exact application. There is reference to ground grew mixing dirt, oil and other 'pigments to achieve a basic camouflage.
Once the uniformed PC10 was made available most surviving aircraft still in service were field dressed in the new colour.thus is why you see photos of DH.2 AND F.E2b aircraft with patchwork camp.
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:)
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Fantastic news regarding the PC 10 & 12. Are other RFC colors imminent, such as Battleship Gray, and the Middle Eastern reddish brown?
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here we go again I thought the Middle Eastern reddish brown was PC 12
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Exactly! Middle Eastern reddish brown was PC 12! :)
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here we go again I thought the Middle Eastern reddish brown was PC 12
Not everyone on here is an "experten".
Von Mertens, Will other RFC colors be offered, such as Battleship Grey or any other colors in the PC range?
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Naturally! I now work on the whole color palette, I hope that I will expand the range of a bulldog soon! :)
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Looks like the Drooling Bulldog guys are increasing their product line with a selection of four different colors for linen: Bleached Linen, Unbleached Linen, Cream Yellow and Pale Cream Yellow. I decided to put my money where my mouth is and I ordered some. http://www.droolingbulldog.com/products/linen-edition/
Looking forward to seeing and using these. I would also be interested to know from the Drooling Bulldog guys regarding which aircraft these different canvas shades would likely have appeared on.
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Hi Eric,
I have the linen edition on my workbench too, could not resist. :)
On Sergey's behalf please let me answer your questions: all of these four paints come from the new product line of Drooling Bulldog, tailor made paints. To be more specific, Sergey is now able to mix paints on customers' demand. This linen edition was tailor made for one customer building the WNW Albatros B.II - bleached linen, unbleached linen and pale cream yellow (colours "I", "M" and "U" in the WNW construction manual). Cream yellow is suitable especially for allied aircraft, as it represents linen with thick coat of varnish. All in all, the paints are universal and their use is difficult to assign to a specific type of aircraft, photos of original kite will be the best guideline.
Two remarks from my experience: bleached linen and unbleached linen are great for weathering (strongly thinned ideal for airbrush applied filters etc.), pale cream yellow is great for lightening warm colours to scale (e. g. kraplak).
Hope this helps, in case of any further details needed, please let me know any time, will be happy to help.
Cheers.
Ondra
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One more remark from Sergey - these paints are also great as base for transparent decals and woodgrain. ;)
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I want them all, the whole line. ;D
Warren
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I really like DB paints -- except the damn labels which are nearly impossible to read! Doesn't help that the bottles are brown so you can't see the contents... :D
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I guess we can't have it all Bo. I took to labeling the tops of my paint bottles some time back with small, round Avery labels.
Warren
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I want them all, the whole line. ;D
Warren
Okay then, get crackin' and buy 'em.
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I really like DB paints -- except the damn labels which are nearly impossible to read! Doesn't help that the bottles are brown so you can't see the contents... :D
Yes, the labels are a difficult issue to me too. On the one hand, I love the design of the DB bottles resembling the old labels from the beginning of 20th century. Perfect job in these terms. On the other hand, I had to do the same as Warren did, I marked the caps with stickers painted with the respective shade - even though I build 1/144, this was beyond my eyesight. :) I talked to Sergey about this and I understand his point. The bottle design is far from retail common layout, but it is very unique, which is in line with the whole Drooling Bulldog philosophy.
However, it is fair to say that the latest labels are much better. The labels on the linen edition are significantly easier to read.
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I want them all, the whole line. ;D
Warren
Okay then, get crackin' and buy 'em.
Why don't you get crackin' and buy them for me Eric? ::) ;)
Warren
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I guess we can't have it all Bo. I took to labeling the tops of my paint bottles some time back with small, round Avery labels.
Warren
i spray the caps with the leftover paint in my airbrush before cleaning it.
Yes, this is hardly a deal breaker -- just annoying that I have to get out my magna visor to read the label :)
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I want them all, the whole line. ;D
Warren
Okay then, get crackin' and buy 'em.
Why don't you get crackin' and buy them for me Eric? ::) ;)
Warren
The best I can offer at the moment is vicarious enjoyment. I'll let you know what you're missing ;)
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Thanks Eric!
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Im flying to Prague tomorrow and can't wait to pick these new tones(alongside with those Im still missing) when Im there, also I asked mr.Mertens for making blue and red paint for RFC insignias for my SE5 build- cant wait for results ;) :D
Cheerio
Lukas
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Does anyone know the ace of the drooling dog logo?
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Does anyone know the ace of the drooling dog logo?
karl(Carlos) Meyer, Jasta 4.
RAGIII
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thanks rick
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Any change in the situation re postage to countries outside of the EU, please? There is no information at all about shipping on the website.
Cheers
GrahamB
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Hello guys,
just thought I would share my new addition to my paint arsenal ;)
(http://i1379.photobucket.com/albums/ah126/lukaskasuba/12665682_10206025690416427_477642879_n_zpsqevfjoxq.jpg) (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/lukaskasuba/media/12665682_10206025690416427_477642879_n_zpsqevfjoxq.jpg.html)
there are 2 new shades (blue and red) that Im intending to try on my SE5 for RFC roundels ;) All will happen when I get back to Sydney...
Cheerio
Lukas
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The coffee cup. I want the cup. I must have it. 8) :D ;)
Warren
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The coffee cup. I want the cup. I must have it. 8) :D ;)
Warren
My order that is mentioned above in this thread has been running a little late apparently due to high demand and supply shortages for the linen paint line. Sergey Mertens sent me an e-mail advising that the cup is coming with my order as a gift for the lateness of the shipment.
Definitely looking forward to sipping some Joe in that cup while spraying some linen colored paint on a WNW kit...
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Hello guys,
just thought I would share my new addition to my paint arsenal ;)
(http://i1379.photobucket.com/albums/ah126/lukaskasuba/12665682_10206025690416427_477642879_n_zpsqevfjoxq.jpg) (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/lukaskasuba/media/12665682_10206025690416427_477642879_n_zpsqevfjoxq.jpg.html)
there are 2 new shades (blue and red) that Im intending to try on my SE5 for RFC roundels ;) All will happen when I get back to Sydney...
Cheerio
Lukas
Lukas, are these shades specially mixed RFC colors by Sergey or are they the red and blue that is already a part of the basic lineup of paints?
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Just a question regarding shipping costs. I was going too order three colors to try the paints out. The price of the paints was reasonable but shipping added 20 euro, for a total of 35 euro, to the US. So the question is: Is this a minimum shipping charge that wouldn't change with more paint being ordered? By the way I didn't complete the order as 35 euro seemed a bit much for 3 jars of paint.
RAGIII
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Hello all,
I talked to Sergey and here are the answers to your questions:
GrahamB: currently the paints can be shipped also to countries outside EU, the shipping time for Europe is approximately two weeks, US 3-4 weeks, 3 weeks to Australia via air mail, New Zealand a bit more than one month. Btw. fair point that this is not explicitely mentioned on the website, I will talk to Sergey how to improve this.
Eric Armstrong: the red and blue are new colours mixed specifically for RFC roundels
RAGIII: Currently there is no other solution for the shipping fee, as the shipping costs e. g. to US are really 20 EUR, therefore it is better to make larger orders to diminish the impact of the shipping fee. Actually the same problem as with all other e-shops, in case of small orders the shipping fee can be higher than the value of the goods ordered. The shipping fee is basically an external factor Drooling Bulldog is not able to influence, as the fees charged are determined by the mail service provider. :(
On behalf of Sergey on more remark to delayed orders - there was a delay by the supplier of glass jars, they should arrive by the middle of next week, afterwards all outstanding orders will be shipped asap along with a gift. ;)
Cheers
Ondra
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Hello all,
I talked to Sergey and here are the answers to your questions:
RAGIII: Currently there is no other solution for the shipping fee, as the shipping costs e. g. to US are really 20 EUR, therefore it is better to make larger orders to diminish the impact of the shipping fee. Actually the same problem as with all other e-shops, in case of small orders the shipping fee can be higher than the value of the goods ordered. The shipping fee is basically an external factor Drooling Bulldog is not able to influence, as the fees charged are determined by the mail service provider. :(
Cheers
Ondra
Thanks Ondra, I appreciate the quick response. At least I know that a larger order won't add to the shipping costs. Perhaps I can hit a happy place where shipping and numbers of bottles seem more reasonable to me ;D I really want to try a few of these in the near future!
RAGIII
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I'm still working on some French subjects, but I'm going to try to save my pennies here soon for an order.
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Hello all,
I talked to Sergey and here are the answers to your questions:...
Eric Armstrong: the red and blue are new colours mixed specifically for RFC roundels...
Cheers
Ondra
How does one acquire them? I do not see them as listed on the website for ordering. Are they a custom mix for special ordering or will they soon be listed along with other colors, such as those RFC PC-10 and 12 colors and other German colors, such as that Hanover lozenge mix that was being shown earlier in this thread... ?
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Many thanks Ondra! :)
I'll get an order in for some.
Cheers,
GrahamB
P.S. May be a spur to get back into finishing a WNW kit or two - been "on the Dark Side" building 1/700 WW1 resin warships (HMS Monmouth and HMS Commonwealth).
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I too am very interested in the RFC roundel colors.
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Hello guys,
Warren and Eric, I see that I sparked bit of an interest here :) The reason why they are not on the internet (I believe) is that I asked Sergey how difficult would these two shades would be to make for him and he said easy and made them for me. Im a big fan of spraying roundels (or any markings for that matter) and thought It would make perfect sense to do so on my SE.5 :D I don't want to talk behalf of him but I'm sure he can tailor these shades for anyone who requests them (email I guess). Also It was slightly higher price. But I still maintain that you get what you pay for and thats worth it. Lets hope there will be more people interested in these shades and they might eventually pop up on the website too ;)
Cheerio
Lukas
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Dear friends and colleagues! I thank you for trust to our paints of Great War! Thanks for your patience, today all orders were sent. I am convinced that work with our material will meet your high requirements! Regards Sergey
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[/quote]
Thanks Ondra, I appreciate the quick response. At least I know that a larger order won't add to the shipping costs. Perhaps I can hit a happy place where shipping and numbers of bottles seem more reasonable to me ;D I really want to try a few of these in the near future!
RAGIII
[/quote]
It would be nice if there was a retailer in the US to sell the paints. I debated ordering a jar or two to try and when I saw the shipping I ordered a lot of paint hoping that it would work as well as others have said.
Maybe those of us in the US can pool our resources and buy a big batch of paints?
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I was thinking the same thing...there has to be a few guys in the US that would love to be a retailer of these great paints. Last Cavalry carries a lot of cool stuff. UMM-USA has a lot of Eastern European items. Ondra, have you to looked into North American distribution? I would order, but I feel like $22 US to ship is a lot...even if a few people did a bulk order in the US and split the shipping we would still have to send it out once it got here and paying more shipping and it seems like we wouldn't save too much in the end......
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I too would like to see a U.S. retailer. As you said zavod, even if we went in, somebody's got to do the labor to split it, repack all of it, arrange for package pick-up, AND charge domestic shipping. All-in-all, a royal pain in the rear.
Until a retailer over here is found, my (and I assume a good many folks' here only hope) is to save my money and order a BIG lot of paint and hope I use it all. :D
Warren
(Saving pfennings!)
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I have reached out to an US retailer who does just this, buys hard to find stuff from Europe in bulk and then sells it to us here. Hopefully he can make some arrangements.
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Dear colleagues! I don't accept too the price which you have to pay for order shipping . Recently the owner of a hobby-shop in USA, contacted me to the offer on cooperation. I hope that we will find the solution soon. Thank you that you stand behind a Bulldog. Regards Mertens
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Fantastic, this is great news......
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I see that PC-10 and 12 are in the lineup of colors. Will we see other shades of these PC colors and will we see the neutral grey color (sometimes called Battleship Grey) also associated with RFC sujects, too?
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What colours can I use for a Dr1?
Cheers
Martin
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Hi:
I just received my order of Drooling Bulldog paints. I got the four color linen set and the 10 German colors. Didn't get a free coffee cup or anything else for that matter.
Very interesting packaging with paint inside brown bottles and numbers instead of color names on the German colors.
I cannot wait to try them out. Any suggestions or hints that I should do when I paint?
Thanx,
Carl
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Any suggestions or hints that I should do when I paint?
Wear a respirator.
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Talking about the hand painted lozenge, Hellboy asked me today to post the photos from his testing on these paints.
The colours have not been lightened up to scale in order to show the basic shade.
These are the five shades:
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag72/ondrejmokry/11846721_107053362977542_8898658277047051923_n_zpshkxpq8as.jpg) (http://s1299.photobucket.com/user/ondrejmokry/media/11846721_107053362977542_8898658277047051923_n_zpshkxpq8as.jpg.html)
Here comparison with Aviattic lozenge:
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag72/ondrejmokry/11828556_107053382977540_3014849406038203615_n_zpsa57iclel.jpg) (http://s1299.photobucket.com/user/ondrejmokry/media/11828556_107053382977540_3014849406038203615_n_zpsa57iclel.jpg.html)
And here with weathered HGW lozenge:
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag72/ondrejmokry/11822368_107053412977537_1620220926215719375_n_zpswc7h9dwa.jpg) (http://s1299.photobucket.com/user/ondrejmokry/media/11822368_107053412977537_1620220926215719375_n_zpswc7h9dwa.jpg.html)
Many thanks in advance for your comments and thoughts.
Cheers
Ondra
I thought I would give this thread a bump and enquire about the development of these colors that were in the process of development for the Hannover. Were does this stand at the moment? Are they expected for release sometime? I am interested and would like to use them on a WNW Hannover I am intending to build.
I also understood there were five (5) other colors for the underside.
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Hi Eric,
Sergey asked me to answer your question on the Hannover paints. As they are produced in very small batches, they are not available directly from the Drooling Bulldog website, but are mixed on demand.
Therefore please contact Sergey directly to get the shades you desire. ;) ([email protected])
Should you need any further support, just send me a PM, will be happy to help.
Cheers
Ondra
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Thanks, Ondra for the information. I will be sending you a PM later today. Right now I am busy with work.
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Just thought I would post to see if Drooling Bulldog either has plans for some French WWI colors or can such colors be ordered specially.