Author Topic: Authentic color Drooling Bulldog  (Read 40862 times)

Offline Hellboy

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Re: Authentic color Drooling Bulldog
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2015, 07:40:07 AM »
Zinc White
Great War Aviation SIG - Czech Republic

Offline Hellboy

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Re: Authentic color Drooling Bulldog
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2015, 07:40:40 AM »
Furnace Black
Great War Aviation SIG - Czech Republic

Offline Hellboy

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Re: Authentic color Drooling Bulldog
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2015, 07:41:48 AM »
Bootles
Great War Aviation SIG - Czech Republic

WarrenD

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Re: Authentic color Drooling Bulldog
« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2015, 10:00:22 AM »
Thanks for uploading new, larger photos Hellboy!

Guys, I'm in the same camp in that I chose this field to study, research, build, etc. a LONG time back in order to avoid the color police and some other related hairstyles and attitudes. I'm certainly willing to give these a try, but I'm going to stay very far away from the maddening crowd of "this is the correct color" and so on.

Warren

Offline ondra

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Re: Authentic color Drooling Bulldog
« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2015, 06:29:22 PM »
I think (or I should rather say I am sure) the story will not go in the direction "Man, you used a wrong shade of green on your Albie".

Personally I appreciate the possibility to use colours based on authentic pigments just for the good feeling that the result will probably look very similar to the original shade.

I do not argue there is always a certain degree of uncertainty (it is known that e. g. PC 10 was changing shade during service due to weathering), that's why I am sure there will not be same sharp discussions as in case of WWII (which from my point of view do not make much sense either).

These paints simply give me an option how to paint my models without the need to mix the "right" shade. It is the same story as with MisterKit, with the difference that I find these lacquer based paints much more durable than acrylics.

Cheers

Ondra

WarrenD

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Re: Authentic color Drooling Bulldog
« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2015, 09:10:56 PM »
Ondra, I'm looking forward to the fact they are lacquer-based as well.  However, I'm concerned about getting them into the U.S. because of that fact too. I hope they find a dealer here.

Warren

Offline ALBATROS1234

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Re: Authentic color Drooling Bulldog
« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2015, 09:51:13 PM »
Huh I thought they might b acrylics the way they were compared to gunze. Want to try them regardless

Offline ondra

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Re: Authentic color Drooling Bulldog
« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2015, 10:05:51 PM »
Huh I thought they might b acrylics the way they were compared to gunze. Want to try them regardless
They are lacquer based as well as Gunze C, therefore they are compatible with them as well as with the Gunze C thinner and levelling thinner.

Cheers

Ondra

Offline GrahamB

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Re: Authentic color Drooling Bulldog
« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2015, 05:08:47 AM »
Warren

why should people like the Drooling Bulldog company, Aviattic, Misterkit, Ray Rimell, Dan-San Abbot, Alan Toelle and many other diligent researchers on WW1 colours even bother if yours is a common attitude towards this subject?

You might as well make the whole thing up yourself! ;)

Cheers,

GrahamB

WarrenD

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Re: Authentic color Drooling Bulldog
« Reply #24 on: February 13, 2015, 10:09:33 AM »
Graham,
             Errrrrrrr, . . . . ummmmmm, . . . . OK, I'm having trouble tracking here.  ??? ???

Warren

Offline zavod44

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Re: Authentic color Drooling Bulldog
« Reply #25 on: February 13, 2015, 12:25:39 PM »
My personal belief is that I try to get it as correct as possible, but it is MY art work and I want it beautiful too.  So I get close to what it is "supposed" to be, and go from there.  I do like the aspect of WWI having a little more room for interpretation.  I will also say that the color game in anything like this weather it be WWII armor or WWI aircraft is definitely "trendy".  I see a lot of theories come and go, and that's half the fun.....

Offline rowan broadbent

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Re: Authentic color Drooling Bulldog
« Reply #26 on: February 13, 2015, 09:58:48 PM »
Graham,
             Errrrrrrr, . . . . ummmmmm, . . . . OK, I'm having trouble tracking here.  ??? ???

Warren

If I can but in here – I suspect that there is a bit of misunderstanding between you and Graham, but I have to admit I found your original post a trifle … concerning? Not sure if it is any more than that but I spend a lot of time worrying at the many issues of WWI colour and here’s what bothered me (and I suspect Graham as well but he will no doubt speak for himself) about your post:

In truth, there are not too many real certainties about WWI colours (although there are plenty of spurious ego-driven pronouncements) BUT there are, most assuredly, some certainties. These broadly relate to existing samples, historical documents, photographs and knowledge of the pigments and processes available during the period we are examining. We also have eye-witness reports, recollections and remembrances but these need to be carefully sifted and where possible used only as corroboration of other concrete information. So there is much room for interpretation and speculation but it is not an entirely free field, devoid of any structure.

If we look at what I term “ego-driven pronouncements”, these were (and sadly still are) made very often in good faith, sometimes based on careful weighing of the available evidence but almost always without “showing the working” and thus they may have been perfectly valid statements, but when made with no explanation of the reasoning behind them, they lose some or all validity.

Quite often these statements have been made by people who regarded themselves (and were in turn, regarded by others) as “experts” in the field. In some cases this (self) categorisation was, in fact, the result of many years of patient study of evidence and the person concerned may be regarded as deserving of the epithet of expert BUT (and it is an enormous room-filling BUT) it was also often accompanied by a self-regard which rendered explanation to the “common herd” superfluous, a sort of “don’t you know who I am?” arrogance.

This arrogance has led in turn to a self-belief which allowed speculation (sometimes more or less valid but still little more than educated guesswork) to become regarded as FACT. These so-called facts have often been parroted without any questioning by others who, either through ignorance, faith in the originator as an expert (see above) or sometimes with a view to their own aggrandisement, believe them to be or want them to be, accepted as FACTS, which they are assuredly not.

So, getting back to the point (at last! I hear the cry), Drooling Bulldog (I know it’s only a name but come on, guys, seriously?!) seem to be putting some real historical knowledge of pigments into the generation of these new colours, in order to give modellers a suitable basis for arriving at shades which have a good chance of reflecting the right historical appearance and for that they should be supported and encouraged. Your mention of the term “colour police”, and the line “wanting to stay away from the maddening crowd (sic) of “this is the correct colour” and so on.” does seem to indicate that you believe that "anything goes", which as I have tried so verbosely to indicate, is far from the true situation.

One of my personal heroes, Carl Sagan, once said: “We will not be afraid to speculate, but we will be careful to distinguish speculation from fact”. That has always seemed particularly pertinent to our narrow, insignificant obsession with WWI colours – as well as to the rest of life!

 Edit: I see that I am repeating the line below.... well it probably bears repetition!

« Last Edit: February 13, 2015, 10:03:16 PM by rowan broadbent »
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There is a crack, a crack in everything – that’s how the light gets in

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Offline Matt Parvis

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Re: Authentic color Drooling Bulldog
« Reply #27 on: February 13, 2015, 11:49:10 PM »
Rowan, I understand what you are saying and I agree with all of your points and I also agree that anyone who is endeavoring to provide some clarity to the time period should be encouraged, but, these quotes from the initial post concerned me a bit in that regard:

He used his knowledge and created the colour shades from the exact pigments used at that time and place the original producers chose to work at. This not only guarantees the authenticity but also “real” reactions of the colours on the model (transparency of certain shades etc.).


Considering the constantly expanding offer of shades, including camouflages there is a big chance new surprising results will emerge such as the final look of the models. Unfortunately not everyone is ready for such a change.

The way I read that is that as a result of their methodology for coming up with their colours they are guaranteed to be authentic.  In  other words, they are correct, end of story.  Then, the intro says "Unfortunately not everyone is ready for such a change." So, taken together, they are saying their colours are correct and if you don't agree, then you are just being stubborn and sticking with previously accepted knowledge. 

My guess is that this isn't really what they are saying, but, the initial post certainly read that way to me and I did find it a little off-putting.

That's just my .02

Matt

     

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Offline LukasTheLight

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Re: Authentic color Drooling Bulldog
« Reply #28 on: February 14, 2015, 12:11:15 AM »
Well,

interesting exchange of opinions here...

well, these two quotes you mentioned Matt... I believe at least what I understand after reading it(in original) is that its essential meaning is bit lost in translation... that so called "such a change" is I believe for different behaviour of colours on different materials and therefore more challenging for modeller to prepare surfaces accordingly and I guess there still be vast number of modellers who simply won't bother with such a thing... and with that It will be turning up differently then intended(such as applying paint on surfacer vs. applying it on wooden decals).

Just thought It might bring some light into it... maybe it didn't...
 I'm personally very excited to buy some of them and have a go...
Lukas   
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They Can Fly Upside Down With Their Feet In The Air.
They Don't Think of Danger. They Really Don't Care.
Newton Would Think He Had Made A Mistake."

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Offline uncletony

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Re: Authentic color Drooling Bulldog
« Reply #29 on: February 14, 2015, 12:13:31 AM »