Nieuport 16 N.1208 Paul Pavelka N.124

[sodium]

hello dave
good detail work in the cockpit
it would be interesting to know which colors you have used; I am speaking about model reference paint for green, brown and blue
for information, you can notice than the exhaust tringlerie is on the other side of the cylinder
cheers
philippe

[davecww1]

Thanks Phillipe.  For the paints I tried to match the colors in my listed references.  I went with the closest out of the bottle colors and used a combination of acrylic and enamels since I prefer enamels but two of the colors I found in the Misterkit acrylic WW1 line and they look the part.  for the lower surfaces I used Misterkit French light blue.  For the 4 color upper surface camouflage I used Misterkit French gray green for the light green, Model Master French Khaki for the dark green, French Chestnut brown for the dark brown and Leather for the red brown.  Remember that the paints that Nieuport used on the early Nieuports was not the same as the later French 5 color scheme as it did not have aluminum powder mixed with it, but was just a pigmented color that was sprayed on the aircraft.  there was some transparency and where the colors overlapped it seems to be blended together.  The outlines painted on the wings and metal struts as well as the interior metal work was done in Model master Intermediate blue to represent the Horizon blue color.  While these may not be perfect matches for the actual paint used they look close to the profiles in my references and also to the Autochromes of the Belgian Nieuport and the French Nieuport 16.
As far as the fuselage goes, that will be coming soon!
Dave
 

[mgunns]

Hello Dave:

I like the work you are doing on the cockpit and the painting looks to be spot on.  These are neat airplanes and it will be neat to see your collection all lined up.  Looking forward to seeing more.

Best

Mark

[sodium]

Thank you dave
it's very impressive to see so many references about the two principal standard colors of Nieuports.
For example, only with Eduard and Gunze, we can find, green H319 H405 H422 and brown H47 H84 H406 ...
I will follow your Nieuports
Best
philippe

[davecww1]

Hi Philippe,
Here is another important reference for the early Nieuport colors written by Alan D. Toelle, and is the best scientific study on the subject available from one of the writers of the Project Butterfly series on the French 5 color metallized camouflage that appeared in Cross & cockade years ago.  This is Windsock International Vol 23 No 5 and also No 6. 

[davecww1]

Over the weekend I began the fuselage painting, first a coat of white primer was applied.  Next I scanned the color profiles of Pavelka's aircraft in the Over the Front article, and reduced them to 1/48 scale.  I printed them out and used them to cut masks from Tamiya tape and covered all of the white areas.  I also masked the upper fuselage and bottom of the fuselage to allow me to spray the lighter colors later.  I sprayed Model Master Leather for the red brown, for some reason this did not dry flat but stayed glossy and took a long time to dry.  Once it dried I sprayed a mix of Mode Master French Chestnut Brown and black for the dark brown.  Once it dried I masked off the fuselage sides, and sprayed the upper fuselage with a mix of Model Master British Gulf Lt Stone and White to give me a French yellow shade.  I masked off the spot behind the cockpit and sprayed the upper fuselage a mix of Model Master Forest Green and RLM 02 gray. I wanted the colors on the fuselage to be different from the wings since this was an old aircraft that had been repaired and repainted several times and used by Bert Hall and several other pilots before Pavelka got it. 
The bottom of the fuselage was painted Misterkit French Light blue to finish the basic colors as seen here.

[davecww1]

I used a brush to repair some damaged areas in the paint, and also a fine brush and Leather paint to make the small lines between the colors as shown in the profile, and a little darker color to do the fine lines over the white stripes.  Next I masked off the aluminum cowling, side panels and reinforcement between the forward fuselage and upper deck, then I airbrushed this area with some Floquil Old Silver. 

[RAGIII]

Dave,
Absolutely outstanding! Cow hide indeed!
RAGIII

[xan]

what an original camouflage. sirely paint in the field.
I haven't found picture of this plane in the web, only this paint:

it si obviously  this plane. is there any picture of it ?
 
cage à poule, member of this forum did the plane when bert flew it.





This is another one or it 's the same?


anyway your camouflage is very interesting, and very well done.
the darker color is bdark brown isn't it?

The bottom of the fuselage was painted Misterkit French Light blue to finish the basic colors as seen here.

it could have been fabric color too, wich was the colors of the apparence of the nieuport before the camouflage appears in 1916.

Xan


Xan

[davecww1]

Very nice Xan.  I was thinking of doing BERT at first but decided to do the later version as painted by Pavelka, as it is a one-off scheme and will stand out of a collection of camouflaged Nieuports.  But in Alan Toelle's article in Windsock we learn that the underside of Hall's Nieuport N 1208 was painted sky blue at the factory.  Both Pavelka and Hall have written that the underside was sky blue, and Alan has found information from 14 May 1916 that says to "tint the undersurfaces of the camouflaged airplanes to light blue".  He concludes that aircraft with serial # N1201 and higher had the blue undersides.   So we can safely say that aircraft with lower serial #'s had the clear doped linen underside, while those later (which would include the early Nieuport 17's) would be light blue. 
Also the photo you posted of BERT is the same aircraft, Bert Hall repainted it twice, the second time one side was as shown in the photo, and the other side had the mirror image of his name so it read TREB. 
I have one photo of Pavelka's scheme, it appears in the Over the Front issue shown above.  I will see if I can find this image online and post it, as I prefer not to scan and post photos from copyrighted books and magazines.
Dave C

[RAGIII]

Outstanding work and your research is SOLID!
RAGIII

[xan]

Both Pavelka and Hall have written that the underside was sky blue, and Alan has found information from 14 May 1916 that says to "tint the undersurfaces of the camouflaged airplanes to light blue".  He concludes that aircraft with serial # N1201 and higher had the blue undersides.   So we can safely say that aircraft with lower serial #'s hade the clear doped linen underside, while those later (which would include the early Nieuport 17's) would be light blue.

All right, some bébé were truelly paint in blue or blue varnish before the camouflage appears, as the Ni-11 of Verdun memorial mooks like:


wikipedia

the most famous of them is the Guynemer's one, the n°836




http://www.vadelaincourt.info/aviateur.htm

cage à poule, again did this model:





in my opinion this blue had to be horizont blue, the same you used around the wings...

Xan

[radio]

Very nice painting Dave.
Martin

[davecww1]

Hi Xan,
If you look at my first photo you can see that one of the planes in my Nieuports over Verdun series is the blue N.11 flown by Guynemer.  I painted this with the same color that I used for the outlines on all of my camouflaged Nieuports. 
In the first part of the Windsock article Toelle mentions there were several solid colors, including horizon blue and cream.  At first I thought that the horizon blue would be the same color as the outlines so I painted my wings that color but every profile and built model of this plane shows the lighter blue.  That brings into question exactly what color Horizon blue is, if we look at the French Horizon blue uniform here is what we get: 

So I am thinking that this shade is lighter than the color used around the edges of the wings and the metal struts.  Perhaps I will use that as a base color and give it a thin coat of light gray to tone it down a little.   

[xan]

If you look at my first photo you can see that one of the planes in my Nieuports over Verdun series is the blue N.11 flown by Guynemer.

Oh sorry!
the color you used seems accurate to my eyes...
Anyway I am always asking my self about this blue coat. Is the 836 the only one ? if not how much and why?
One problem is that this color is very difficult to detect in B&W pics...

Xan