Author Topic: Sopwith Camel - looking for advice on subject for my build  (Read 4480 times)

Offline ondra

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Sopwith Camel - looking for advice on subject for my build
« on: November 06, 2017, 07:46:35 PM »
Dear forumites,

the next subject on my build list will be the Sopwith Camel, currently I am looking for the colour scheme of my choice and would like to ask you for help.

At the time being, the options are:

- Donald Mac Laren's LeRhone powered F2137
- A. R. Brown's BR.1 powered B7270
- Raymond Collishaw's BR.1 powered B 6390
- W. G. Barker's Clerget powered B6313

Each of them features certain obstacles, so it would be a great help for me if you could suggest another scheme fulfilling the following points to make my life easier. :)

- !CORRECTION! LeRhóne engine would be the easiest one to produce (to avoid the double push rods on the front side)
- I would LOVE to have a Camel with unpainted wooden panels
- an aircraft flown by a famous ace or with a story behind would be very welcome

So far I have started some very basic drawing to get familiar with her. ;)



Many thanks for your help!

Cheers

Ondra
« Last Edit: November 06, 2017, 08:25:41 PM by ondra »

Offline RLWP

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Re: Sopwith Camel - looking for advice on subject for my build
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2017, 08:20:32 PM »
Isn't that the wrong way around? The Clerget has the pushrods:



The LeRhone has the plain front:



Both images from Wikipedia

Richard
Hendon for flying - the fastest way to the ground!

Offline ondra

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Re: Sopwith Camel - looking for advice on subject for my build
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2017, 08:25:13 PM »
Well spotted, Richard, thanks for the warning! I will correct the original post.

Cheers

Ondra

Offline Jeff K

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Re: Sopwith Camel - looking for advice on subject for my build
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2017, 08:56:45 PM »
Barker's, hands down. if i'm not mistaken no other airframe accounted for as many enemies as Barker's Camel.

I am a HUGE Collishaw fan but that's his seaplane defense kite. yeah it's a Black Mariah but not one of THE Black Mariahs.

that said, you can't go far wrong with MacLaren either. especially if you like chipped paint.

i'm particularly in awe of these three guys and i'm not even Canadian.

if you're PC10'd out (The Horror) and want a pretty, colorful one there's a training squadron camel that's a pretty blue and, due to its pilot having served in Egypt, has a picture of CLeopatra on the fuse. the Cleopatra looks just like Emily the Strange, further evidence that EVERYTHING was invented during WWI.

looking forward to seeing what you do with this. i'll be one of those anonymous guys in the 3rd wave of camels...

Offline lcarroll

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Re: Sopwith Camel - looking for advice on subject for my build
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2017, 01:36:54 AM »
Ondra,
    As a great fan of your work I have to get my preferences to you, after all, you did ask for help choosing a color scheme!
    Four choices, all Canadian Aces, and being a good Canadian boy with 37 years of service in the "light blue", Canadian subjects are at the top of my criteria list for subject choice. I'd love to see you do Barker's B 6313, a colorful scheme and the all time top scoring Camel, it doesn't get any better! I'm working on MacLaren's chipped wonder, and hope to do one of each of the versions and my list of preferred options pretty well mirrors yours., the exception being my Bentley choice is definitely Roy Brown's 7270. I already have Collishaw's Black Maria Tripe on my shelf. Should you choose the Barker option his Snipe could logically follow........
   I'm looking forward to this one, your choice, whatever it is I know it will shine! :)
Cheers,
Lance
 

Offline ondra

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Re: Sopwith Camel - looking for advice on subject for my build
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2017, 07:29:01 PM »
Many thanks for your inputs and advices, guys!

So far it looks like Barker's machine will be the winner, as the camo is really attractive and seems to be largely handleable using masks. The only element I will have to find a solution for is the heart with the arrow on the rudder fin.

I am basically finished with the basic drawing, so soon it will be time to start implementing the adjustments specific to this particular maching.

Cheers

Ondra

Offline rayb24

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Re: Sopwith Camel - looking for advice on subject for my build
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2017, 10:04:42 PM »
Barkers would be my choice, it really should have been preserved. It went a year in combat from the Western front to the Italian front. Which arguably makes it the longest operational Camel of the war.
During that time it had more than one redope, new upper wing, multiple undercarriages and engine changes. this makes it a very unusual aircraft for the time. I wonder if it lasted because Barker didnt want to give it up or if on the Italian front they didn’t get as many new aircraft so had to make do.

Ray

Offline ondra

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Re: Sopwith Camel - looking for advice on subject for my build
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2017, 10:15:48 PM »
Right, definitely one of the most iconic Camels I can think of.

Looking at the colour scheme in the WNW instructions, I am wondering what colours were used. The cowling is for sure high gloss finish appearing significantly darker than the canvas covered parts. On the other hand, the rudder fin also appears to be darker that the canvas on the fuselage, the same applies for the wheel covers. Last but not least, looking at the WNW instructions again, there seems to be a different shade on the upper side of the wings, except ailerons.

Anyone having a hint about this? I searched a few threads on TheAerodrome, but without success so far.

Cheers

Ondra

Bughunter

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Re: Sopwith Camel - looking for advice on subject for my build
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2017, 05:36:30 AM »
Oh Ondra, I missed this thread, but I can suggest a colorful Camel ;D

Source: eduard.com
Kit: Limited 1122

But stop: you wanted wooden panels, what about this one?

Source: eduard.com
Kit: 8058, Sopwith Camel 2F.1, Cpt. B.A.Smart,Tondern raid, July 19 1918 (I have it in my stash).

It would be really interesting to your painting of the red chess board in 1:144, that would be amazing!

But I'm sure, you will find the right Camel for build!

Cheers,
Frank

Offline lcarroll

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Re: Sopwith Camel - looking for advice on subject for my build
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2017, 06:11:30 AM »
Ondra,
    If you can pull off a checkerboard in 1/144 Scale I believe my head would explode!! (but judging by your work it would be no surprise!) :o :)
Cheers,
Lance

Offline rayb24

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Re: Sopwith Camel - looking for advice on subject for my build
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2017, 11:22:27 AM »
Right, definitely one of the most iconic Camels I can think of.

Looking at the colour scheme in the WNW instructions, I am wondering what colours were used. The cowling is for sure high gloss finish appearing significantly darker than the canvas covered parts. On the other hand, the rudder fin also appears to be darker that the canvas on the fuselage, the same applies for the wheel covers.

Ondra
I believe at least during part of the time, the cowling and tailplane were gloss black, with the arrow through the heart on the tailplane. Oh and don’t forget about the red devil car hood ornament on the bickers starboard gun.  That’s all pretty much been hashed many times in the past. The tailplane I think is preserved ar the RAF museum if I Remember correctly
Here is a link to Bob Pearsons interpretations during the history of the aircraft
http://www.cbrnp.com/profiles/quarter1/barkers-camel.htm
A link to the image of the tailplane at the raf museum
https://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/documents/Cosford/Aviation%20Nose%20Art.pdf
A good image of Barker and the aircraft is on this page.
https://www.thisdayinaviation.com/27-october-1918/
Hth’s
Ray


Offline gbrivio

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Re: Sopwith Camel - looking for advice on subject for my build
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2017, 02:55:59 PM »
Barker's plane would be my choice within the four.
And I'm sure this will be another great build anyone you will choose.
Ciao
Giuseppe

Offline ondra

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Re: Sopwith Camel - looking for advice on subject for my build
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2017, 03:44:42 PM »
Many thanks for your input, gentlemen!

@Bughunter: the schemes you have posted look both very nice and definitely would be an eyecatcher in my display cabinet. So far I am afraid pulling of a checkerboard in this scale on a curved area like camel's cowling would be beyond my skills, but I will definitely give it a try. ;)

@rayb24: many thanks for the links you have posted, while looking at Bob Pearson's interpretation I guess I have found my favourite - the final version of Barker's Camel from Sep 1918 - aluminium cowling, wooden panels - the essence of WWI aircraft. Many thanks once again.

I will leave the final choice open, though, as I would like to use a new method to create the fuselage on this build - vacuforming. As this should allow for an easy creation of several pieces, there is an option of building more Camels at once... But will see. ;)

Cheers

Ondra

Offline ondra

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Re: Sopwith Camel - looking for advice on subject for my build
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2017, 12:46:05 AM »
One more question, dear forumites. The text by Bob Pearson says following about the final appearance of the B6313:

The final appearance of B6313 found it with all the paint removed from the nose panels and the b/w bands expanded to seven and six respectively, Note the heart on the fin is now facing in the opposite direction. Additional cooling slots were cut into the front of the cowl and the upper wing center-section had the fabric removed to improve upwards visibility.

Would any of you happen to have any closer info on the highlighted point?

Many thanks!

Cheers

Ondra

Offline rayb24

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Re: Sopwith Camel - looking for advice on subject for my build
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2017, 12:08:08 PM »
I think Bob Pearson got his reference's from Norman Franks Book mentioned at the bottom of his pages, I have seen a late picture of this aircraft with the finish stripped off the cowl but its upside down having tipped on landing. Its at the bottom of this link.



https://www.thisdayinaviation.com/27-october-1918/ 


Of course you could email Bob Pearson


As to the centre section. This was a mod done by the ground crew for the pilot. Stripping out more fabric in the centre section for greater upwards visibility. Many pilots did this. The space between the centre and the first ribs left and right was usual, but some striped out more.


hth's Ray