Nieuport X 1:32

[RLWP]

Richard, I always thought the Nieuport X and the Nieuport 10 were one in the same, and according to some sources, they are.  However, this popped up on a quick search.
http://flyingmachines.ru/Site2/Crafts/Craft28695.htm
http://www.ctie.monash.edu.au/hargrave/nieuport.html

Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Bud

Hi Bud, there's a lot to these early aeroplanes. As I understand it, the Nieuport X is a monoplane, The XB is a biplane (hence the B) which became the Nieuport 10

This might be of some help, Sir....

https://books.google.com/books?id=FRhaAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA68&lpg=PA68&dq=nieuport+x+armored&source=bl&ots=Y4n7olzjO6&sig=21CVdUDbgpoPbfP6dSx3kGv4wT8&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj5vpjskIXUAhUk0oMKHfvOCQYQ6AEIRTAJ#v=onepage&q=nieuport%20x%20armored&f=false

Scroll down a little, it will open on a Clement-Bayard type, but right below it is a Nieuport Blinde....

That's annoying, I can't get that to work. I only came across the Blinde yesterday evening in L'aerophile. Is there a drawing in that book? I'm planning to model an aeroplane with the front engine mount between the propeller an the engine, so the Blinde is out - can't see the engine!

This looks like the same beastie too, Sir...



Found it here, but not much other help there....

http://www.digitalhistoryproject.com/2012/06/world-war-i-airplanes-zeppelins.html

By the way, the motor almost certainly would be a 14 cylinder twin-row Gnome, of 140/160 horsepower.

Yes, that is a handy view giving some of the detail behind the rear seat. It's either an X or a IV, I can't the the rounded cowl over the top of the Gnome in that view

I'm getting the engine type (Gnome Omega) from the Windsock Datafile 68 (Nieuport 10~12). Bruce has it listed as an 80hp rotary. And I notice I have been looking for a 50HP, which is correct for earlier aeroplanes. My mistake. As it happens, I have ordered two Gnome Omegas from WNW, so I can make a Gnome Omega Omega if I need

I'm wondering if I should build a Nieuport-IV instead. I have much more info on that aeroplane!

Thanks for your help guys, I'm very open to this sort of assistance

Richard

[RLWP]

Oh, I forgot - Is that version of the Blinde the one with an enormous disk on the front, or one with a set of horizontal shutters?

Richard

[RLWP]

Got it - that's the one with the disk:



https://archive.org/stream/aeronautics1517aero#page/68/mode/2up page 68

That's another great resource, thank you

The X would have come out in 1914, I wonder if it is in that volume?

Richard

[RLWP]

And here is the 50hp single seater from the same magazine:




 https://ia802307.us.archive.org/BookReader/BookReaderImages.php?zip=/33/items/aeronautics1517aero/aeronautics1517aero_jp2.zip&file=aeronautics1517aero_jp2/aeronautics1517aero_0219.jp2&scale=4&rotate=0

I need to work out what it is I am looking for - again!

Richard

[bobs_buckles]

Richard,
 I will flick through French Aircraft of the First World Warand see if I can come up with any tidbits 

Von Noop

You are a star - you probably already know that

I have been trawling through Flight magazine for 1912-1914, and if I wanted a drawing for a B.E.2A, a Flanders monoplane or a dozen more obscure 'planes, they are all in there. Nieuport seem to have managed to escape, apart from some stuff on sporting monoplanes

Richard

Richard,
 French Aircraft of the First World War produced 0% information... which I find surprising considering the size and depth of such a tome.

Good luck!
Von B

[Old Man]

The picture of the Nieuport with Esc. C12 that you say you want to do is captioned with a note saying the motor is 160hp, which would certainly be the doubled Gnome. The machine in the picture I posted  I am pretty sure is the 'flat front' example, the same as the one in the Albin Denis pictures. Here is another picture, from the front, with some caption information:



The caption information is from 'Flight' in 1914, but I do nt know the isue. It is take from one of the Russian 'pirate' sites.

I found a better example of that drawing:

https://web.archive.org/web/20060217031514/http://mars.ark.com:80/~mdf/N_6d.html

It identifies the drawing as depicting the first of three armored Nieuport monoplanes. It seems that in this version, the observer sat under cover, and looked out an opening to starboard. It notes the fuselage was wider than the usual, and this probably continued through the various versions.

The one that actually made it to an escadrille would doubtless be the third, and had a conventional seating arrangement.

The French air service underwent a change in command not long before the war, and the new chief wanted armored aircraft. Manufacturers attempted to oblige, and a number of 'one-offs' resulted. The weight required higher power motors, and so the twin-row Gnome was often featured. It was a wretched engine, mind, very prone to throwing cylinders and needed extensive maintenance. But it was often featured in racers, and also often used in prototypes undergoing trials, as part of the scoring was speed, which when the thing wa working, it could certainly provide by brute force.

[Old Man]

Here is a screen-shot from lower down on the Albin Denis escadrille page, profiles of a sraight N.IV and of the 'Blinde' Nieuport....



The side by side comparison is interesting. This final armored Nieuport preserves the forward position of the wing seen in the drawing of the first armored Nieuport above. It looks like the fuselage is a bit longer than the original, as well, and both these things suggest alterations to preserve a proper center of gravity and lift. The bulges at the side of the motor do not appear on the head-on photograph from Flight, which pretty well pegs this as the third armored Nieuport. The bulges are probably an attempt to improve cooling, rather than a concession to motor diameter. The rear bank of the twin-row Gnome was particularly prone to uneven cooling of the cylinders (the side leading in rotation cooling better than the side trailing, which led to cracks and then to fragmentation).

Markings seem to be standard, with 1 meter roundels under the wings. Probably there should be a 'charge maxim' note somewhere, but this may have been rushed out from the factory to the unit without trials. There were numerous irregularities at this time.

There would not have been an escadrille emblem marked this early in the war.

[RLWP]

Hmm. It seems to me, I have assumed that the picture I found was of an aeroplane somewhat similar to a monoplane version of the XB. So, and aeroplane with a wider wing span and possibly chord than the biplane, but still having the same engine installation

I'm not committed to building an armoured aeroplane as that isn't what I thought I had found. I'm wondering if what I want to build is actually a Nieuport IV

This is a fascinating area to dip into

Richard

[Adam]

I found here some photos and drawings of Nieuport IV and Nieuport X, but they are from the Russian service.

http://www.mmpbooks.biz/ksiazki/274

Adam.

[RLWP]

I found here some photos and drawings of Nieuport IV and Nieuport X, but they are from the Russian service.

http://www.mmpbooks.biz/ksiazki/274

Adam.

I think you have to be careful with the Russian aeroplanes. They are definitely Nieuports, the Russians seem to use designations that no one else did.

Are there are dimensions in that book? Wingspan, wing area and engine type would be interesting

Richard

[Old Man]

I found here some photos and drawings of Nieuport IV and Nieuport X, but they are from the Russian service.

http://www.mmpbooks.biz/ksiazki/274

Adam.

That looks like a great book, Sir! I will be on the look-out for it. The drawings of early Farmans alone are worth the price.

[RLWP]

That looks like a great book, Sir! I will be on the look-out for it. The drawings of early Farmans alone are worth the price.

https://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/SearchResults?bi=0&bx=off&ds=30&isbn=9788363678487&recentlyadded=all&sortby=17&sts=t

Richard

[Old Man]

Hmm. It seems to me, I have assumed that the picture I found was of an aeroplane somewhat similar to a monoplane version of the XB. So, and aeroplane with a wider wing span and possibly chord than the biplane, but still having the same engine installation

I'm not committed to building an armoured aeroplane as that isn't what I thought I had found. I'm wondering if what I want to build is actually a Nieuport IV

This is a fascinating area to dip into

Richard

Just sharing what I found, Sir. The aeroplane in the photograph which piqued your interest is definitely an armored machine. Some years ago I did a scratch-build of Breguet's original AG-4, which was a design he built as part of the armored program, so I necessarily found out a bit about the matter, and am alert to its manifestations. In February, 1914, the French air service got a new leader, a Gen. Bernard, who thought aeroplanes should be armored. A number of attempts were made, and in early June, there was a display of prototypes by several manufacturers at Villacoubley. Since it really wasn't practical, given the state of the aeronautic art at the time, it was wasted effort. A few single examples were briefly used in the early weeks of the war, and that was all.

A standard type Nieuport monoplane would certainly be easier to research, and make an excellent subject for a build. Those got around, being used in many places. One subject I have kicked around taking a run at is the float-plane examples used in the eastern  Mediterranean early on.

[RLWP]

I very much appreciate your sharing what you have found, it does help to have someone who has blundered through this minefield before

I'm surprised that the XB wasn't armoured when the X was, but then as these are very early aeroplanes ideas were not fully formed. My digging through digital magazines from 1912 show some very improbable aeroplanes actually flying

I'm veering towards a Nieuport IV or VI, and yes, a floatplane does look interesting.

I have also learned that there were several types of seven cylinder Gnome: https://www.hydroretro.net/etudegh/La_Societe_des_Moteurs_Gnome.pdf

Richard

[RLWP]

OK, having dithered about loking for Nieuport X monoplanes, I'm being drawn to the Nieuport VI hydravions N1 and N2 used for reconnaissance around the Dardanelles



http://www.aeronavale.org/almana/debut%20avia%20maritime.htm

It puts them in the same theatre as my Parasol, and I think I have drawings for them

Have I got their identification right this time?

Richard