Author Topic: A night out with Erika - Gotha G.V 904/16 'Erika'  (Read 9335 times)

Offline Borsos

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Re: A night out with Erika - Gotha G.V 904/16 'Erika'
« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2016, 11:23:43 PM »
 I really love and admire your painting skills on the wagon, it looks awesome. There's only one issue with it (an actually very small one) if you want to keep it as historical correct as possible. The German Army in WWI used horse drawn wagons that were all standardized ( it's German so everything is standardized ), and the Wagon you used from this Masterbox set doesn't really fit here. Of course, when wagons were of short supply, they also used civilian ones, pressed into service. But they hardly would have painted them field grey and added a coat of arms. ESCI ERTL once produced a heavy field wagon of WW2 that perfectly fits as a Schwerer Feldwagen for WWI. This kit is rereleased by Italeri and still available. That is just a small note that does not reduce the great quality of your work at all.
Best wishes from the Northern Sea
Borsos
"Deux armées aux prises, c'est une grande armée qui se suicide."
Barbusse.
"Ein Berg in Deutschland kann doch einen Berg in Frankreich nicht beleidigen. Oder ein Fluß oder ein Wald oder ein Weizenfeld."
Remarque.

Offline KitRookie37

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Re: A night out with Erika - Gotha G.V 904/16 'Erika'
« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2016, 12:21:51 AM »
Hello ladies and gentlemen,
Absolutely outbreathing !!! What a painting !!!  :)
Best regards.
Alain.
Use the force, Luke.
JE SUIS CHARLIE

Offline FarEast

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Re: A night out with Erika - Gotha G.V 904/16 'Erika'
« Reply #17 on: August 08, 2016, 08:07:23 PM »
I really love and admire your painting skills on the wagon, it looks awesome. There's only one issue with it (an actually very small one) if you want to keep it as historical correct as possible. The German Army in WWI used horse drawn wagons that were all standardized ( it's German so everything is standardized ), and the Wagon you used from this Masterbox set doesn't really fit here. Of course, when wagons were of short supply, they also used civilian ones, pressed into service. But they hardly would have painted them field grey and added a coat of arms. ESCI ERTL once produced a heavy field wagon of WW2 that perfectly fits as a Schwerer Feldwagen for WWI. This kit is rereleased by Italeri and still available. That is just a small note that does not reduce the great quality of your work at all.
Best wishes from the Northern Sea
Borsos

Many thanks for the comments Borsos- however I will respectfully disagree - I think the possibility is far more plausible than it not happening. You only need to read the accounts of pilots and ground crew on both sides to know they took huge liberties in relieving the local populace of furnishings, accommodations, live stock and vehicles.

As this is a late war diorama (around 4 months before the Armistice Somewhere between March and July 1918)where it was reported that the later variants of the Gotha G's were substandard due to the quality of the materials being used as they were in demand by the ground forces, so I think the need to improvise was becoming greater - there is also plenty of evidence of other non standard vehicles being used, such as hand carts, trolleys and the likes being built by the ground crew using odds and ends.

Also as the bomber Aerodromes were way in the back areas I think the use of non standardized vehicles would be higher as more resources were being pulled to the front.

However if you have photographic evidence to the contrary showing standardized horse drawn wagons at a bomber field I would dearly love to see them and I will happy grab the correct cart!!

Here are two photos of back area wagon depots that show a whole array of different wagons some painted, some bare some obviously straight from civilian life:











« Last Edit: August 08, 2016, 08:13:13 PM by FarEast »

Offline Borsos

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Re: A night out with Erika - Gotha G.V 904/16 'Erika'
« Reply #18 on: August 08, 2016, 09:27:17 PM »
Everybody who will look at your diorama will see the Gothas, the fantastic truck, the figures (any progresses here in sculpting?) and never ever would ask, if the horse drawn wagon fits the scene - it is just such a small detail... Anyway I spend quite a while in researching German horse drawn equipment of WWI which is annoyingly bare of good sources, books are very rare and this issue seems not to attract many people, which I completely understand. What is a cart against a beautiful airplane !
I don't know why, somehow I like these horse drawn wagons anyway especially their fallen-out-of-time appearance next to a more modern fighting machine (like tanks or so). And there's really cool stuff like aircraft repair wagons, or water desinfection wagons, look like some Steampunk stuff...
So thank you very much for posting these pics, they are really valuable! But in fact they all seem to be standard German Army equipment, even the civilian style wagons. I can see many leichte Feldwagen, some heavy Feldwagen  (e. g. First pic, on the extreme Right side), and the wagon on the first pic with the hood is an official doctor's wagon. For some of the carts I'd have a look at my books - but back to the original question: I totally agree that they used civilian wagons at the end of the war, but I don't think that they took the extra work to paint them field grey and add a coat of arms. But of course it's not impossible...! :)
Normally they used to take heavy field wagons for transporting ammunition, luckily Italieri offers a good kit:

The "Hf.2" (these designations were introduced after ww1) is in fact a Schwerer Heeresfeldwagen, as you could use mobile kitchens of ww2 for ww1 "Gulaschkanonen". But sadly I have no photos at hand, that shows the former ones at Bomber airfield. I'll check my references at home asap.
Best wishes
Borsos
"Deux armées aux prises, c'est une grande armée qui se suicide."
Barbusse.
"Ein Berg in Deutschland kann doch einen Berg in Frankreich nicht beleidigen. Oder ein Fluß oder ein Wald oder ein Weizenfeld."
Remarque.

Offline FarEast

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Re: A night out with Erika - Gotha G.V 904/16 'Erika'
« Reply #19 on: August 08, 2016, 09:57:31 PM »
Borsos,

I'm the same! I love the clash of eras that the two wars saw. Actually my parents used to race carriage horses and traps so I grew up with these noble beasts and learned a lot about them - my mother is a wealth of information on the subject of carriages, limbers etc.

I think I will meet you half way and remove the coat of arms :D It's actually only on one side of the cart as I wanted to see how it looked against the lorry.

If you could post up some pics that would be an enormous help in capturing the feel and human element/natural element of the people and animals involved in the day to day operations - sadly lacking in the photos that seem posed for postcards home. 

Offline IanB

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Re: A night out with Erika - Gotha G.V 904/16 'Erika'
« Reply #20 on: August 08, 2016, 11:28:55 PM »
This is gong to be VERY good.....the vehicles and supplies are really going to make this diorama, especially painted as well as they are. I have one small  question: Is there a part missing from the lorry? There doesn't appear to be any connection between the gearbox and the drive shaft...or maybe you added it after the pics were taken..

Ian

Offline lone modeller

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Re: A night out with Erika - Gotha G.V 904/16 'Erika'
« Reply #21 on: August 09, 2016, 03:48:54 AM »
I am bowled over by the quality of the painting of these models. This is going to be a diorama that I will take a greta deal of enjoyment in just looking at …… again…. and again….. and again…….


Stephen.

Offline Borsos

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Re: A night out with Erika - Gotha G.V 904/16 'Erika'
« Reply #22 on: August 09, 2016, 04:16:20 AM »
Borsos,

I'm the same! I love the clash of eras that the two wars saw. Actually my parents used to race carriage horses and traps so I grew up with these noble beasts and learned a lot about them - my mother is a wealth of information on the subject of carriages, limbers etc.

Exactly that :) That sounds awesome, you must have had an exciting childhood!

Quote
I think I will meet you half way and remove the coat of arms :D It's actually only on one side of the cart as I wanted to see how it looked against the lorry.

That would increase the level of historical accuracy from 99,9 to 100%  ;)
By the way I love these coats of arms. Where did you get them?

Quote
If you could post up some pics that would be an enormous help in capturing the feel and human element/natural element of the people and animals involved in the day to day operations - sadly lacking in the photos that seem posed for postcards home.

Of course! I'll have a look when I'll be back home and post some. But I'd post it in another thread, this space here should be for your progresses of which I can't wait to see more!

Borsos
"Deux armées aux prises, c'est une grande armée qui se suicide."
Barbusse.
"Ein Berg in Deutschland kann doch einen Berg in Frankreich nicht beleidigen. Oder ein Fluß oder ein Wald oder ein Weizenfeld."
Remarque.

Offline FarEast

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Re: A night out with Erika - Gotha G.V 904/16 'Erika'
« Reply #23 on: August 09, 2016, 06:57:20 AM »
This is gong to be VERY good.....the vehicles and supplies are really going to make this diorama, especially painted as well as they are. I have one small  question: Is there a part missing from the lorry? There doesn't appear to be any connection between the gearbox and the drive shaft...or maybe you added it after the pics were taken..

Ian

Ian - you have a very good eye - It was added after the photos were taken. I needed the space when adding the chains and completely forgot to add it until after the photos were taken and I spotted it :D

Offline FarEast

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Re: A night out with Erika - Gotha G.V 904/16 'Erika'
« Reply #24 on: August 09, 2016, 07:06:51 AM »

Exactly that :) That sounds awesome, you must have had an exciting childhood!

My mother was a competitive show jumper till all the kids got in the way and then moved to horse and trap/carriage but we grew up around horses, aircraft and ships. My Father was in the Royal Navy and my Grandfather was in the Army Air Corp and I would spend my summer holidays up at Middle Wallop. When he got too old he retired from active service and became one of the curators at the Museum ( A lot of the models in the display are scratch built by him and several other very talented guys - he was a Coach builder apprentice before the outbreak of WWII  - so you can imagine where I wanted to go during school breaks.

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That would increase the level of historical accuracy from 99,9 to 100%  ;)
By the way I love these coats of arms. Where did you get them?

Looking at it more I would agree - from the depot photos many of the general purpose wagons are naked wood (Probably just recently built) and more than likely got painted in the field for protection from the elements - Some may have just been coated in engine oil to protect them from the elements.

They are actually from Aviatic's MArienfelde Lorry - I will be using the skull and cross bones on mine as it will be carrying the bombs to the Gotha.

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Of course! I'll have a look when I'll be back home and post some. But I'd post it in another thread, this space here should be for your progresses of which I can't wait to see more!

Please PM me the link to the new thread as I miss so much due to the great amount of activity that goes on here...... I found such amazing stuff on here 3 -4 months after the initial post that I wish I had found 2 months previously!

Offline KitRookie37

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Re: A night out with Erika - Gotha G.V 904/16 'Erika'
« Reply #25 on: August 09, 2016, 04:37:56 PM »
Hello ladies and gentlemen,
So, as Obelix, you falled into cauldron when you you were a child... ;D ;D
Best regards.
Alain.
Use the force, Luke.
JE SUIS CHARLIE

Offline Adam

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Re: A night out with Erika - Gotha G.V 904/16 'Erika'
« Reply #26 on: August 09, 2016, 08:46:45 PM »
Perhaps in the discussion about colors, horse car, it will help the image




which I found here.

https://www.facebook.com/WW1-Colourised-Photos-450822585061599/

It is a colorized picture, I think you can trust this colors.
By the way, I recommend this site, you can find a lot of interesting pictures from the Great War.

Offline Borsos

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Re: A night out with Erika - Gotha G.V 904/16 'Erika'
« Reply #27 on: August 09, 2016, 11:25:04 PM »
Fascinating! Many Thanks, Adam!
"Deux armées aux prises, c'est une grande armée qui se suicide."
Barbusse.
"Ein Berg in Deutschland kann doch einen Berg in Frankreich nicht beleidigen. Oder ein Fluß oder ein Wald oder ein Weizenfeld."
Remarque.

Offline FarEast

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Re: A night out with Erika - Gotha G.V 904/16 'Erika'
« Reply #28 on: August 11, 2016, 12:49:18 PM »
I was already a member of that group but hadn't stopped by in a while so thank you for the reminder!

Although the colours are accurate I would say that in this case he should have painted the wheels - probably the most crucial part of the limber and hardest to make - they would have painted those to protect them from the elements, In fact a lot of the museum pieces that haven't obviously been restored (in a few decades at least) show painted wheels.

Back to the build

So having started the oil process on the final horse I decided to make a start on the drive - I wanted a youngish solider to drive the limber and decided to do some kit bashing and sculpting to get the pose and uniform I wanted.

I used the legs from the "Bonus" figure supplied in the Master box set that I glued differently from the original position, broke the foot, removed excessive material and sculpted additional creases then fianlly added a blob in the shape of the torso and then adjusted the position required.





This morning I checked on the torso to make sure it had cured fully and started sculpting the basic detail to the torso. This time stealing a head from one of the Aviattic figures.







and again made sure nothing had shifted during the sculpting process.





Once the putty has cured I will add some of the deeper folds of cloth and also more detail to the hemming of the jacket - add lapels and the arms that again came from the Master Box set. Finally I will add buttons, etc. to the uniform.




Offline Manni

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Re: A night out with Erika - Gotha G.V 904/16 'Erika'
« Reply #29 on: August 11, 2016, 04:20:01 PM »
Großartig!
I think sculpting a new Figure is the peak of modeling.
Awsome like the carriage.
Manni
"Ich hab' da mal was vorbereitet.": Jean Pütz
"Warum noch mehr Bausätze?!?": meine Frau