Author Topic: Base Colour, Sopwwith Snipe (Early)  (Read 1367 times)

Offline lcarroll

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Base Colour, Sopwwith Snipe (Early)
« on: July 02, 2015, 12:28:58 PM »
    A very basic question about a very big contradiction: I'm on step 1 / day 1 of the Wingnut Wings Early Snipe Build. WNW calls for PC12 almost exclusively, The Albatros Publications Data File calls for exactly the opposite, PC10 with nary a mention of 12. I normally treat the Data Files as the "bibles" on the topics however is there any corporate knowledge or reference out there that could solve this riddle for me? Rowan at Pheon doesn't state either however the colour Plates with his Snipe Sheet are definitely  a greenish representation of PC10.
   Any input most welcome. :-\
Cheers,
Lance

Offline RAGIII

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Re: Base Colour, Sopwwith Snipe (Early)
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2015, 03:33:54 PM »
Lance,
When I read your post it seemed to be a familiar question. I looked through my build log and No Joy. Then I looked at this section. Here is the link to my question on this very subject.
RAGIII

http://forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com/index.php?topic=3221.0
"A man has to know his limitations": Harry Callahan

"Don't slop it on" Lynda Geisler

Offline Pgtaylorart

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Re: Base Colour, Sopwwith Snipe (Early)
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2015, 07:35:15 PM »
I read through the previous posts that the link leads to. Even Ray Rimmel weighs in. Very interesting stuff, and a never ending debate.

This would lead me to believe that the earlier planes were greener and then paints shifted to a more chocolate brown hue (not a reddish brown, but a greenish brown) as the war went on due to changes in paint availability. Would this affect all British aircraft? I am currently starting a DH.2, which of course appeared early in the war. Can I safely assume it would use a greener version of PC10? Sorry Lance, I don't want to hijack and further confuse your thread, but I'm having similar questions as I begin my build. I have most of the colors of linen decals the Aviattic offer and I want to use the most appropriate one.

By the way, the second choice, version B, of early WNW Snipe E8015 is depicted with a PC10 fuse and PC12 wings. Is this speculation, or a known color scheme?

Thanks,
George

Offline lcarroll

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Re: Base Colour, Sopwwith Snipe (Early)
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2015, 11:14:12 PM »
Rick, George,
    Thanks for your comments. I had a feeling I'd been there before, March 2014 it would seem! I was very much leaning towards the "greener" end of the spectrum and I still am, as you both appear to favour as well. What confused me at that time (and still does) is the debate over the "real" colour of PC 10; however in this specific case it's PC10 vs. PC12. With my Sopwith Tripe I went to the green/brown  version, definitely not the reddish brown I thought PC12 was. On this Build I think I'll do the same, add a little more brown to the mix but definitely stay at the greener end of the colour chart.
   George, I recently finished the DH2 in Aviattic Linens top and bottom. I used their ATT 32089 (Clear Decal Paper) PC10 "Light" over Tamiya Gloss White on the upper surfaces and I really like the results. It's definitely got a "greenish" tone. On this Snipe I intend to paint the uppers and use Aviattic's CDL on the lower surfaces.
   "Version B" Ser. E8015 puzzles me; the explanation offered in the Instructions makes perfectly good sense however my eyes do not detect the "colour which appears lighter then the factory finish" in the Booklet photo. As for the PC12 the Instruction Booklet cover narrative offers the explanation that "it is only the latter (PC12) that has been noted on original examples of Snipe fabric we have examined". I can't dispute that conclusion, never having viewed original Snipe fabric........
   Thanks for weighing in on this, Guys. I've said it before and I'll say it again, "the only thing we're sure of on this topic is.................we're not sure"!!
Cheers,
Lance

Offline RAGIII

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Re: Base Colour, Sopwwith Snipe (Early)
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2015, 11:22:44 PM »
Lance and Geaorge. I have continued to dig and came up with a few things provided by Flypaper a long time ago. I hope they help rather than confuse:

RAGIII

huntley02_zps0dafcae2 by Richard Geisler, on Flickr



huntley01_zpscdd9dd37 by Richard Geisler, on Flickr


13301d1244042579-pc-10-cdl-varnish-mythbusting-green by Richard Geisler, on Flickr

George,
As for 8015 I agree with Lance in that I do not see the difference in the "Booklet" photo. That being said it has obviously had the serial on the fuselage overpainted which does show a little to me. IMHO, even the fuselage repaint would not show such a DRASTIC difference in color, but then again who am I to dispute WNW research :-). I chose to model 8015 as it might have looked before the overpaint and the end of the fighting  8)

and my interpretation:

wnwsnipe2 003_crop by Richard Geisler, on Flickr
« Last Edit: July 02, 2015, 11:44:38 PM by RAGIII »
"A man has to know his limitations": Harry Callahan

"Don't slop it on" Lynda Geisler

Offline lcarroll

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Re: Base Colour, Sopwwith Snipe (Early)
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2015, 11:48:26 PM »
Thanks Rick!
    It makes sense, and necessity being the mother of invention would apply. I believe our apparent leaning towards the green side provides as accurate an answer as any, given there were numerous colours (no doubt very similar) being applied at numerous Factories to numerous "specs". Hopefully I remember all of this next time I hit the wall on this age old question! :-[
Cheers,
Lance

Offline Chris Johnson

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Re: Base Colour, Sopwwith Snipe (Early)
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2015, 01:38:18 AM »
I'm following along with interest, fully expecting that you'll do all of the legwork Lance and have this fully sorted out by the time I get to my Early Snipe.

Cheers,

Chris
You can have it good; You can have it fast; you can have it cheap. Pick any two, but all three are impossible.

Offline RAGIII

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Re: Base Colour, Sopwwith Snipe (Early)
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2015, 08:00:28 AM »
I'm following along with interest, fully expecting that you'll do all of the legwork Lance and have this fully sorted out by the time I get to my Early Snipe.

Cheers,

Chris

Chris,
Lance may do the Legwork but it will never be sorted out  :-\ Too many variables. That being said an OD that leans brown would probably suffice for PC 10...or maybe even PC12. If someone questions you that it is too green just say PC10. If too brown say PC 12. This works as no one can tell from original photos which PC was used  :o Seriously I am in the somewhat brownish school for PC 10!
RAGIII
"A man has to know his limitations": Harry Callahan

"Don't slop it on" Lynda Geisler

Offline lcarroll

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Re: Base Colour, Sopwwith Snipe (Early)
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2015, 08:20:55 AM »
Rick,
   Your version of 8015 is a stand out, just beautiful, and I like the brownish tint. I agree, a lot of work done over the years and more to come in the future, but no resolution to date and we'll probably never know for certain........... :-\
   That's part of the fun of it, and it's great to have alternate explanations for the latest theory. I'm just going to toss a little more reddish brown into my last batch of greenish PC10, no one can call me "WRONG"!
Cheers,
Lance

Offline Pgtaylorart

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Re: Base Colour, Sopwwith Snipe (Early)
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2015, 08:43:25 AM »
Thanks for the repies, Rick and Lance.

 I have another PC 10/PC 12 question. Has anyone seen examples first hand of Aviattic's Khaki? How does it compare to the other PC colors? They don't include a sample on their sample sheet.

I saw your DH.2, Lance and it looks great! Actually, I've really studied your version. Most I've seen paint the interior framing and floor grey as is called out in the WNWs instructions, but I like the wood frame and floor on yours. I'm seriously thinking of stealing that idea. (Although, this is a Snipe thread so I'll start my own build thread soon to discuss this) :)

George