Nieuport 17 Academy 1:32

[WarrenD]

Adam,
          I believe the latest research indicates that the camouflaged Nieuport 17's had a blue border, and I think the camouflage was sprayed.

Warren

[davecww1]

Warren is correct, Alan Toelle did a 2 part article in Windsock International Vol. 23 No. 5 & 6, on Nieuport Camouflage of 1916.  A couple of things to note from this article, the camouflage colors were sprayed on at the Nieuport factory.  they used a paint called Ripolin, which is an oil based paint, as the dopes of the time could not be sprayed on.  Also the Ripolin dried very glossy, so for a scale model I would use a semi-gloss clear as a high gloss would make it look toylike, while a dullcoat would not be correct either.  He also talks about the contrasting borders, which are interesting as in some photos they appear white, while in others of the same plane they appear dark.  This is based on the reflection of sunlight and he concludes that blue is the only color that would vary so much on the orthochromatic film.  It also appears that 4 different camouflage colors were used on the upper surfaces, and a light sky blue was used on the lower surfaces of the later camouflaged Nieuports, including the early Nieuport 17.  But this was a time of rapid changes, and the aluminum doped Nieuports were soon issued, making the sprayed on camouflaged planes "old fashioned".  So it has never been determined if the Nieuport 17 used by Guynemer with the aluminum fuselage and camouflaged wings was something the factory was trying out, or if wings from an older camouflaged plane were put on the newer fuselage due to damage of the original aluminum wings.  In this case it would be assumed that the wings would have the sky blue undersides and the horizon blue outlines and strut binding tapes.  No one can tell for sure but here is my take on the scheme around ten years ago, I would now conclude that there should be a lighter green and a red-brown in the camouflage colors on the wings, and a semi-gloss finish.
Dave

[Adam]

Warren and Dave, thank you for your advices.
Dave, if I understood you well, wings were painted by brush.
You write that green should be lighter. In the instructions are such paint colors, dark brown Fs30099 and dark green Fs 34258. I'm using Lifecolor paints, these colors look like that.



In my opinion the green is a little to light.



I'm not sure if brown is also correct.

Adam

[davecww1]

Hi Adam,
Camouflage colors were sprayed, the blue outlines were painted by brush.  The colors of the camouflage are hard to determine since there may have been 4 different colors, here is a link to some comments on the early Nieuport colors: 
http://www.aeroscale.co.uk/modules.php?op=modload&name=SquawkBox&file=index&req=viewtopic&topic_id=90429&ord=&page=2

[radio]

Adam very great work and paint until now.
Martin

[xan]

there is a website  who put on line all a military pics collection done by the french army: le fond Valois:
there are here splendid pics (just write Nieuport in search and you will see)...
[type]=_all&adv[0][value][0]=&view=list&sort=_score%3Adesc&subquery=&search-query=1]http://argonnaute.u-paris10.fr/search?query=nieuport&search-query=&adv[0][type]=_all&adv[0][value][0]=&view=list&sort=_score%3Adesc&subquery=&search-query=1

Well in this collection, there is a draw of workers painting cockade with brush...

This picture is taken in Salmson factory:


zooming we see that workers are using brushes to paint the wings...


Xan

[WarrenD]

Are they applying paint or applying dope?

Warren

[xan]

french comouflage were done with pigment i the different dope coats , no paints were used.

Xan

[davecww1]

Hi Xan, did you read the article from Alan Toelle?  He says that the Nieuport factory used ripolin (oil based paint) sprayed at the factory, the dopes were not used on the early Nieuport camouflage because they could not be sprayed.  Also the Salmson production would have been later, probably by then they were doing the aluminized dopes which were applied with a brush.
Dave

[xan]

yes I read it.
I was talking about the salmson factory at the end of the war with the 5 colors camouflage (I had not to write french camouflage but end of war french camouflage, sorry)
Xan

[davecww1]

Hi Xan,
You are correct Salmsons and SPADS from 1917-1918 were brush painted with the 5 color French camouflage made up of pigmented dope mixed with aluminum powder.  so they have a hard edge between the camouflage colors.  This was also how the insignia was applied to the wings.  Unfortunately Adam is doing a camouflaged Nieuport from 1916 so this would not apply, as these aircraft were finished with Ripolin paint sprayed on at the factory.  I do not wish to confuse Adam as to what is correct for the Nieuport he is modeling, but thanks for sharing these great photos. 
Hope this clears up any confusion.
Dave

[xan]

yes I just wanted to share some info I had, I don't say at all ripolain paint with airbrush was not right...
by the way I forgot to put the draw of the nieuport factory



Xan

[davecww1]

Nice drawing Xan,  only the camouflage colors were sprayed on, the cockades and the outlines of the wings would have been done with brush of course as well as the stencils on the ailerons and wing with the serial #.

[Adam]

Thank you very much to all for giving painting method of the Nieuport.
The second way of painting with a brush, used to paint SPAD, also come in handy because I have in the plan to make model Spad VII from Roden.

Adam.

[Adam]

The wings were painted, but  I put the masks strip on the silver surfaces. Then I learned that this strip was painted blue.



So the nest step is painting blue strip.





I think this strip is a little too wide, but I'll leave it, because I would have to paint again whole wings.

I decided to raise the bar itself and decided to paint cockades, using masks
So I bought a pair of compasses and sheets Montex masks.
At the beginning of the test was painting.










When I was cutting the smallest wheels, I noticed that part of it is not cut to the end, I tried to fix my problem but to no avail.

Now red color.





The result is not as expected but I will use mask.
Firstly badly painted the center.
This error is correctable, I will have to cut out the circle carefully .
Now  I cut down mask and it was glued on the wing.
Tonight I will start painting.

Adam.