Author Topic: Wingnut Wings Fokker E.II/E.III Early  (Read 29349 times)

Offline BigBlue

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Re: Wingnut Wings Fokker E.II/E.III Early
« Reply #120 on: October 21, 2014, 07:52:05 AM »
Thank you so very much, Ernie, Sasho, Martin, Rick, Stefan and Michael.  As I continue to say, I am very appreciative of the kind comments and support from such a talented group.

Sasho, I feel certain that if I was able to repair the re-appearing seam, then you will be able to handle it just fine.  Michael, I won't deny that getting the repair behind me was a bit of a confidence boost!  I still have relatively few builds under my belt since returning to the hobby as an adult, and this was not something I was sure would work out.  I think it is likely a case of "a blind squirrel finding an occasional nut" as an old professor of mine once told me, but I'll take it!

I think that everything is painted at this point, and I have the undercarriage sitting in place under the aircraft waiting to be glued.  I am just going over my rigging plan to make sure there is nothing that would be easier to thread now than once it is permanently affixed.  I hope to actually begin the process this evening, and will post some pictures when I do.

Thanks again to everyone,

Chris

Offline uncletony

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Re: Wingnut Wings Fokker E.II/E.III Early
« Reply #121 on: October 21, 2014, 08:04:43 AM »
I knew you could do it ;)

Ammunition belts were made of canvas with dull metal (brass?) spacers between the rounds.

500 round LMG 08/15 belt, LMG 08 should be similar:

Offline BigBlue

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Re: Wingnut Wings Fokker E.II/E.III Early
« Reply #122 on: October 21, 2014, 10:30:04 AM »
Welcome back Bo, and thanks for the support.  I think it would be more accurate to say that you knew it could be done... my ability to pull it was an open question  :)

Thanks also for the photo.  Based on this, I assume that the majority of what would be seen in the chute would likely have been the canvas, rather than the brass?

Chris

Offline uncletony

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Re: Wingnut Wings Fokker E.II/E.III Early
« Reply #123 on: October 21, 2014, 10:38:29 AM »
Thanks also for the photo.  Based on this, I assume that the majority of what would be seen in the chute would likely have been the canvas, rather than the brass?

Yep. The belt is 30mm wide (about 1mm in scale), so take it from there :)

Offline BigBlue

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Re: Wingnut Wings Fokker E.II/E.III Early
« Reply #124 on: October 21, 2014, 01:50:34 PM »
Thanks again, Bo.

Micro update, rigging commences:



Its not much, but it's underway.

Chris

Michael Scarborough

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Re: Wingnut Wings Fokker E.II/E.III Early
« Reply #125 on: October 21, 2014, 11:28:58 PM »
Looks like a fine start, Chris.

As your Eindekker build will be the Bible for mine, if you have a moment, can you please let us know the sizes of the various materials you're using. Are those Gaspatch turnbuckles? 48th, 32nd?

Thanks,
Michael

Offline BigBlue

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Re: Wingnut Wings Fokker E.II/E.III Early
« Reply #126 on: October 22, 2014, 10:29:21 AM »
Michael,

I am not fully settled on my rigging material just yet, as I am undecided if I want to do the whole job using monofilament, or at least some part of it using EZ Line.  I am leaning towards the former, but will be ready to change plans if it looks like it will be easier.  The little bit shown in the picture above was done with:

•  6x (.127 mm) fishing tippet material (monofilament) for the control lines.  This is colored with a silver Sharpie ahead of use.
•  7x tippet (.1 mm) tippet to attach the turnbuckle to the control horn, also silver colored.  To attach the turnbuckle, I cut a small sleeve of nickel tube, passed the mono though, then looped one end through the horn and back in, and the other through the turnbuckle and back.  Tighten, CA, and cut the tag ends.  Because it is not really visible and I needed to pass it through the tube 3 separate times, I went with the thinner diameter.
•  .5mm outside diameter (.3mm i.d.) Nickel Silver Tube from Albion Alloys.  I am using the metal tube for the connectors between hardware (i.e. turnbuckles to control horns).  I decided to differentiate these from:
•  29 AWD (.0013" I.D., .0158" O.D.) Polyimide Tubing to represent the whipping around the steel cables where they re-attach to themselves (t.e. though a turnbuckle eye).  Bo, Bertl and others have discussed this material at various times in the forums, which is where I first encountered it.  I purchased mine here http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0013HSOVG/ref=biss_dp_t_asn.
•  1/48 scale Gaspatch turnbuckles (Type C, if I recall).  I also have some 1/32 scale which I plan to use for the arms on the wing warping control mast.

I would be very happy if this thread turns out to be helpful to your future Eindecker build (and would look forward to seeing it!)  I make this post even more helpful by pointing you towards a number of the Fokker E Series build threads on which I have leaned heavily during this build (read: stolen from).  There are others that are quite good and worth seeking out, but these are a few for which I have URLs handy:

In no particular order:

mgunns's (Mark's) E.III: http://forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com/index.php?topic=3869.0
Firefox's (Dave's) E.III: http://forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com/index.php?topic=3774.0
SsashoO's (Sasho's) E.IV: http://forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com/index.php?topic=3700.0
Dirk's E.II: http://forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com/index.php?topic=1567.0
Umlaufmotor's (Bertl's) E.I: http://forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com/index.php?topic=3195.0

Like I said, there are other folks whose Eindecker builds have been helpful to me, and certainly others who have produced results I would be very happy to match, so it is worth searching through the "Under Construction" forums.  I have also found a number of useful photos here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/sdasmarchives/with/7585175000/

I hope that helps,

Chris

Michael Scarborough

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Re: Wingnut Wings Fokker E.II/E.III Early
« Reply #127 on: October 22, 2014, 11:54:10 AM »
Man...ask a simple question...get an encyclopedia for an answer. Wow. Many, many thanks for the information as well as the tutorial, Chris. I will find this most helpful as I'm sure will anyone else building an Eindekker. And the specificity will be helpful on my next Pup build which will be my first rigging with "hardware". So, blessings on you.

Would you care to share with us what your next build will be?

Cheers from NYC,
Michael

PS Where are you that you are a Giants fan??

Offline stefanbuss

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Re: Wingnut Wings Fokker E.II/E.III Early
« Reply #128 on: October 22, 2014, 03:24:04 PM »
Chris,

thank you very much for your detailed answer on Michael's question - this will come very handy when I will dare Tackling my EIII, that is patiently waiting for me on my shelf...

Stefan

Offline BigBlue

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Re: Wingnut Wings Fokker E.II/E.III Early
« Reply #129 on: October 22, 2014, 03:36:56 PM »
Michael and Stefan, I'm glad it helps.  I have been on the receiving end of so much help and information here that I am glad to have the chance to try to move the scales just a bit in the other direction.  I made some headway on the rigging this evening.  It's very late so I'll just post one picture until I have more time tomorrow:



Nothing has been tightened yet, and a large number of lines are only attached at one end.  I'll put up additional pictures and give a bit more information about the process tomorrow.

Chris

p.s. I am a life-long Giants fan (suffering through a bit of a rough patch of late) who now lives about an hour or so northeast of NYC in Connecticut.  My last NY address was the Upper West Side about 15 years ago.

p.p.s. I should point out that the mono that I am using for the main rigging is a bit smaller in diameter than the instructions call for (.127mm vs .15 mm).  Unfortunately that is the largest size I can fit through the polyamide tubing, and the next larger size tubing is prohibitively expensive.  I am hoping it won't look to delicate when rigged up.

Offline stefanbuss

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Re: Wingnut Wings Fokker E.II/E.III Early
« Reply #130 on: October 22, 2014, 04:17:24 PM »
I think the seams that you still left on the undercarriage's parts (the strengthening struts with the airfoil profiles attached) will distract enough, so nobody will recognize that you dared to "cheat"with a "wrong" diameter.

Honestly: Nonody will recognize that you used 0.127mm instead of 0.15mm; especially after you have applied a layer of paint. But you might want to work a little bit on those seams.

Stefan

Offline Ernie

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Re: Wingnut Wings Fokker E.II/E.III Early
« Reply #131 on: October 22, 2014, 08:25:40 PM »
Once again I have to thank you Chris, for the marvelous
explanation of your build techniques, as well as the excellent,
helpful pictures to go with it.  I look forward to more of the
same. :D

Cheers,
Ernie :)
The new old guy, take two...

Offline RAGIII

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Re: Wingnut Wings Fokker E.II/E.III Early
« Reply #132 on: October 22, 2014, 10:41:26 PM »
Absolutely excellent work! Looking great!!
RAGIII
"A man has to know his limitations": Harry Callahan

"Don't slop it on" Lynda Geisler

Offline radio

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Re: Wingnut Wings Fokker E.II/E.III Early
« Reply #133 on: October 22, 2014, 11:31:28 PM »
Like Rick no other word.
Martin

Offline BigBlue

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Re: Wingnut Wings Fokker E.II/E.III Early
« Reply #134 on: October 23, 2014, 12:56:09 PM »
Ernie, Rick and Martin, thanks for your kind words.  I am glad the thread is helpful Ernie.  Stefan, thanks for pointing out the seams on the undercarriage, I will see what I can do about toning those down.

Here is the more detailed post regarding what I have done so far.  The most daunting thing about this build has been the rigging, and the worst part of that for me (so far) was trying to visualize where the numerous lines connected.  I found the pictures and explanations that Mark (Mgunns), Sasho, and the others very helpful, so I thought detailed pictures would be worthwhile here.  I can't guaranty that I will have everything correct, so be sure to check away before following my errors.  It also goes without saying that if someone reading this notices a mistake in my rigging, I hope they will let me know.  Enough disclaimers. 

I decided to go with monofilament for all of the rigging, so no EZ Line for this.  Prior to painting the undercarriage parts, I drilled out mounting points, and added wire eyelets where appropriate.  I didn't take pictures at this stage, but will point out what I can in the upcoming pictures.  As has been noted by Mark and others, the wing warping control mechanism (A45 on the E.II/III Early kit) required 6 holes: 1 at the end of each of the longer "wings" which will connect to control lines that run vertically into the opening in the cockpit floor (where they would attach to the similarly shaped horn on the horizontal pipe attached to the control column, A4), and 1 in each of the 4 pie shaped wings (which will attach to the rear 2 of each wing's 4 lower attachment points.



As you can see in the picture, I also attached an eyelet just above the mount point on each leg.  The lines from these two eyelets will run to the attachment points at the lower center of the triangular structure at the front of the undercarriage (B3).  I pre-attached the lines at this end to another set of eyelets that I mounted ahead of time (the kit piece seems to have an area on each leg designed to accept the eyelets.) 



The last 2 lines I attached pre-assembly are the following which I mounted to the built in points on A25:



The points needed to be drilled out in order to be used.  Those wires will run to where the front assembly joins the fuselage.  The kit has a small indentation at those spots (seen in the picture above), so I attached a pair of eyelets once the front had been glued in.  In last night's picture, I have already attached turnbuckles to those eyelets, and you can see one of the lines awaiting attachment.  Speaking of turnbuckles, based on the reference photos I studied, I have decided that all of the turnbuckles in this assembly will be inserted at the end of the line closest to the fuselage.  Keep them up out of the mud, and make them a bit easier to get to.

Progress so far from a different angle:



Missing from the assembly thus far are the 4 cables running from the undercarriage to the front underside wing attachment points.  I plan to loop those lines around the tube and knob at the front of the structure as can be seen in the photo on page 7 of the instructions.  It remains to be seen how well this will work.  I will attach the other end to a 1/32 Gaspatch turnbuckle mounted into the provided holes in the wing.  I incorporated an eyelet in each turnbuckle by running a small piece of wire through one end, twisting to form a loop, and cutting to size as shown in this blurry picture:



The eyelet glues into the mounting hole, and the turnbuckle is free to rotate into the correct angle when the attached monofilament is pulled tight.

That's what I've got so far.  I apologize if the the wall of text and photos is too much.  As I mentioned above, the rigging has not been nearly as bad as I had imagined (knock on wood).  The planning really has been the hardest part, so if this helps, I'm happy.  Once again, I can't promise that any of this is correct, I am just showing my work. 

More to come,

Chris