Author Topic: 1/72 Short S 38 on HMS Africa and HMS Hibernia 1912  (Read 11750 times)

Offline lone modeller

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5512
Re: 1/72 Short S 38 on HMS Africa and HMS Hibernia 1912
« Reply #45 on: April 24, 2024, 01:00:54 AM »
Evening All,

Many thanks to you all for the very kind and encouraging comments: I really do appreciate them all. Frederik: well someone has to turn an idea into reality, and as nobody else has come forward to do so, I suppose that I might as well have a try!

Progress on the S38  Africa/Hibernia project has been delayed again, this time by my error of judgement. When I made the block for the barbette I laminated three pieces of wood, but then thought that it would be too deep so I removed one of them. After I had installed the wood strip for the decking I realised that I should have left the three wood laminates, so I had to add the third after the decking had been laid. I also had to remove the vents on the foredeck and replace them with larger ones when the barbette  was finished. This meant cutting and shaping a piece of wood to almost the correct dimensions, gluing it to the top of the existing barbette and finishing it in place. That required some careful filing and sanding, plus a little filler, and then repainting. I also had to protect the wood decking form the dust from the wood grain filler. In all a right fiddle which had I thought more carefully at an earlier stage of construction I could have avoided. When the barbette was complete I added new vents.

A new part of the structure was the forward superstructure and flying bridge, on to which the ramp was fixed. I am only representing the front faces of those structures - I am not building a model of a warship! The bridge was set about three feet (1 meter) ahead of the flying bridge, so I cut out both as a single piece from 60 thou card, and then separated them. I used a small block of wood to join them together with a scale gap between. On the Africa and Hibernia two small guns were mounted on each side of a central observation post: I have deliberately left these out as they had nothing to do with the launch ramp and would only add unnecessary complexity to the model. Instead I added some smaller details to the front face of the forward superstructure and cut out the windows in the section between flying bridge, and cemented the observation platform on the front superstructure:



After this had been painted I screwed it to the rear of the base: I did think about using epoxy but decided that a stronger attachment was desirable given the small area of contact. The turret was painted and placed on the barbette. The sailor figure gives an idea of the size of the 12 inch gun turret and foredeck of the ship:





I made a paper template for part of the launch ramp and placed it and the part completed  S38 on to the turret just to check alignments and sizes:





I made up the ramp from basswood (lime) strip with a strip of beech for part of the runway. The difference in colour of the wood can be clearly seen on one of the contemporary photographs taken on the runway. The gaps and solid platform sections are based on photographic evidence but I cannot be certain that the dimensions are 100% accurate, but at least it looks proportional when I tried it for fit on the model:





I have still to give the wood platform a wash with light grey to tone down the lime wood. The next step will be to make the supports for the ramp and attach them to the top of the turret and foredeck. The canvass screens which were draped to protect the superstructure of the ship and which covered the observation platform will be made from paper and glued in place when ready. I will post more when I have completed that part of the model.

Thanks for looking.

Stephen.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2024, 06:09:53 AM by lone modeller »

Offline DaveB

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1169
Re: 1/72 Short S 38 on HMS Africa and HMS Hibernia 1912
« Reply #46 on: April 24, 2024, 02:57:22 AM »
I was wondering what had happened to your project, Steve -

What a nightmare for you having to keep starting over again to correct errors ......!

I feel your pain as I think we have all been here with a build at some point.

Really starting to come to life now and looks blooming great.

Regards

Dave
As we say in fencing, what's the point!

Offline IanB

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2496
Re: 1/72 Short S 38 on HMS Africa and HMS Hibernia 1912
« Reply #47 on: April 24, 2024, 04:47:00 AM »
Nice to see this back.
Why do we always seem to make decisions that make more work? At least I know it's not just me!
Great update too and the ramp is coming along nicely!

Ian

Offline Dutch522

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 975
Re: 1/72 Short S 38 on HMS Africa and HMS Hibernia 1912
« Reply #48 on: April 24, 2024, 08:37:15 AM »
Marvelous work, Stephen, this is going to be an awesome display when it's completed!

Dutch

Offline PJ Fisher

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1426
    • Aero Rarities
Re: 1/72 Short S 38 on HMS Africa and HMS Hibernia 1912
« Reply #49 on: April 24, 2024, 11:27:07 AM »
this it great.
you can still see the wright flyer influence on the shorts design

Offline NigelR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1863
Re: 1/72 Short S 38 on HMS Africa and HMS Hibernia 1912
« Reply #50 on: April 24, 2024, 07:06:09 PM »
Glad to see more progress here on an amazing and unique model. Keep going!!

I am not building a model of a warship!
Aw go on, you've started so you might as well finish...... ;) ;D

Offline lone modeller

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5512
Re: 1/72 Short S 38 on HMS Africa and HMS Hibernia 1912
« Reply #51 on: May 12, 2024, 06:26:41 AM »
Evening All,

Thanks to all who left your very constructive comments - they are all greatly appreciated.

Nigel: I have foud building this small section of a battleship trying enough so in future I will stick to building real aeroplanes (ie pushers), instead!

I have been back at the Short S38/Hibernia project this week as I do want to get this one moving again. For a number of reasons it seems to have slowed to a crawl recently, so I have focussed some time and attention and have almost completed the ship part of the project, although there are still details to add before it will be ready to take the model aeroplane.

The first item was to weather the ramp: photographs show that it was not badly weathered at all as the wood had probably been bought and used for the ramp from new. I used a grey wash but dd not apply too many coats - just enough to take the brightness out of the lime strip.



I also gave a couple of coats to the other stripwood that I used to make up the supports. There are three cross supports on the top of the turret but they can hardly be seen when in place. These were made from beech with some very thin strips for the cross pieces around the gun barrels from lime. I also added eyes from thin copper wire under the cross beams of the ramp above the turret: later they had thread passed through them to represent the rope bracing which is clearly visible in photographs.

The turret was glued to the barbette using wood glue and when that had set put the ramp supports over the turret on to the underside of the ramp. I also glued the two outer (thicker) front supports on either side of the guns and the attached the ramp structure to the turret and deck. When this was dry I could add the remaining upright supports and cross members around the gun barrels.



Brackets were made from plastic card and rod and attached to the top of the barbette with CA. I made ropes using cotton thread and copied the pattern from the photographs: when pulling the threads tight on two of the threads the copper wire eyes pulled out of the wood of the ramp. After much bad language and gnashing of teeth I managed to retrieve the situation - just.



On the port (left) side of the turret a large brace was fixed from the top of the bridge to the base of the turret above the barbette. I used 80 thou rod for this - on the ship I think that it was a boom used to hold the anti-torpedo nets, but the photographs are not completely clear so that is only a guess.



I added the tops to the vent shafts for the crew quarters - these are in the open position.



On the sides of the hull there were two sets of steel brackets which the crew used to gain access to the torpedo net booms: I added some of these from 30 thou rod to the hull sides. I have made two gangways from wood: these will be added when I put on the post and rails around the edges of the deck. I have not photographed them yet because they have not been washed and weathered.

Sadly I have been quite unable to find any suitable navy figures to put on the deck and ramp: does anyone know of a possible suitable source of figures which I could adapt and modify? They must be 1/72 or 1/76 scale and not metal if possible. Any guidance would be gratefully received.

Thanks for looking.

Stephen.

Offline Dutch522

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 975
Re: 1/72 Short S 38 on HMS Africa and HMS Hibernia 1912
« Reply #52 on: May 12, 2024, 01:05:58 PM »
Stephen, this is top-shelf modeling. I'm a closet wooden ship modeler so I can appreciate the difficulty of every step you've accomplished so beautifully... looking forward to seeing that flimsy little aeroplane mounted atop all those tons of Sheffield steel!

Dutch

Offline malaula

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 291
Re: 1/72 Short S 38 on HMS Africa and HMS Hibernia 1912
« Reply #53 on: May 12, 2024, 06:31:21 PM »
Hello Steven! Your diorama will be a stunner when finished !
Nikolai (distributed by Germania Figuren) offers very nice sets of Resin Navy Sailors and Officers,those are supposed to be Austrians,but I think they look the part when painted up accordingly.

Offline NigelR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1863
Re: 1/72 Short S 38 on HMS Africa and HMS Hibernia 1912
« Reply #54 on: May 12, 2024, 06:34:42 PM »
Good to see this progressing. This type of modelling is beyond me, so it's fascinating to see how you do this.

Offline DaveB

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1169
Re: 1/72 Short S 38 on HMS Africa and HMS Hibernia 1912
« Reply #55 on: May 13, 2024, 02:52:22 AM »
This really is coming together nicely Steve -

I also agree with you regarding the wood tones of the aircraft ramp which would have looked very different from the ship decking.


Regards

Dave
As we say in fencing, what's the point!

Offline FAf

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1208
Re: 1/72 Short S 38 on HMS Africa and HMS Hibernia 1912
« Reply #56 on: May 13, 2024, 08:18:27 PM »
They really didn't think they'd have to use the guns, did they?! You can see why this wasn't the end solution. 🙂

Very nice colours on the different kinds of timber. The supports really have the feel of some much more solid and coarse.
/Fredrik

Offline lone modeller

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5512
Re: 1/72 Short S 38 on HMS Africa and HMS Hibernia 1912
« Reply #57 on: May 28, 2024, 05:34:17 AM »
Evening All,

Many thanks for the kind comments and suggestions for figures - they are all much appreciated.

I have completed the S38 part of the Africa/Hibernia project: the S 38 will be set on the launch ramp over the turret when that part of the project is finished. Here is how the last parts of the aircraft were put together and then the remaining rigging finished. I started by fitting the front elevator to the front booms and added the control horns to the sides:



I fixed the pilot's seat and the small platform which extended in front of the pilot, plus the rudder bar and control stick, to the leading edge of the lower wing. The undercarriage was next. This consisted of two horizontal skids held by two legs on each side of the centre line, with a single axle and two wheels mounted inside the skids. I expected this to be weak, (which is why I had been putting it off for a long time), as the undercarriage legs are only set in very shallow pits on the underside of the wing. However once the axle and wheels were in place the structure seemed to gain strength so provided that I handle the model carefully, it seems to hold up well. I rigged this part of the model straight away as it was easily accessible at this stage:



The engine and propellor followed: before I could fit the engine I had to add the push rods. Those supplied in the kit were just too thin for me to handle, and in addition some of the locating holes in the crank case had become filled with paint, so I made some alternatives from stretched sprue instead. I did not bother with the spark plugs: they are so small that they are impossible for me to handle and nobody would ever see them anyway. With the engine in place the wood propellor was added to finish that part of the model. Rigging of the lower boom arms followed so that I could fit the rear float. That sat on two arms suspended between the tail skids. The arms were made from 20 thou styrene rod and the skids from thin strip. I also fitted the horizontal tail surfaces and ailerons which completed almost all of the sub-assemblies except the floats and rudders:





I superglued two pieces of stripwood to the main undercarraige struts - they form the attachment points for the forward floats when they were fitted later. Final rigging now took place - I used rolled 40 SWG copper wire held with superglue to finish the booms and add the control wires to the elevator and rudders. Before I could fit the rudders to the rudder post the bracing had to be attached first - 6 wires per side on two rudders:



With the rudders attached and rigging complete it only needed the fixing of the undercarriage floats to complete the aircraft.

I will show more photographs of the completed S38 when I have finished the whole project and can put the aeroplane permanently on to the platform. However that will not be for a few days so in the meantime here is a teaser shot of the S38:



Thanks for looking.

Stephen.

Offline NigelR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1863
Re: 1/72 Short S 38 on HMS Africa and HMS Hibernia 1912
« Reply #58 on: May 28, 2024, 06:33:31 PM »
Beautiful work. It looks so fragile I don't know how you manage to pick it up, let alone build it!!

Offline Bluesfan

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 491
    • MW Miniature Work
Re: 1/72 Short S 38 on HMS Africa and HMS Hibernia 1912
« Reply #59 on: May 28, 2024, 08:56:24 PM »
Oh that is indeed beautiful. Your S38 is perfect!
Just wanted to say how enjoyable it is to watch this project.
A great tribute too, Shorts aircraft were central to the Navy's pioneering efforts in aviation.
Looking forward to the finish on the Hibernia!
Cheers
Mark