Author Topic: Nieuport XVII Questions  (Read 891 times)

Offline RAGIII

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10575
Nieuport XVII Questions
« on: December 15, 2018, 11:39:31 AM »
So having received my CSM Nieuport XVII Late kit I decided I do not want to Model any of the provided Markings. My preference is to do a Lafayette Escadrille bird. I have the following questions about 3 airframes.
1. N1844 of Thenault/Lufberry:
 Does it have the clear panels in the center section of the upper wing?
 Is it indeed a Late Model with wing riblets?
2. N 1977 of Robert Soubiran
Looking through photos in the Albatros production Nieuport Flyers of the Lafayette Escadrile I thought I had confirmed that it indeed had clear center upper wing panels, photo 40 page30. Then I found this on a google images search:
 


Doesn't appear to have the clear panels to me, or does it? If so which center section would I need from the CSM XVII early kit?
Enlarged the photo and yes, I think it has clear panels.....or not  ::)
Is the windscreen a late style or the early Nieuport 16 type?

3. N 1950 flown by a committee but last by Genet.
No questions about the wing as the photos, 45 and 46 page32 nd 33 are clear. But photo 36 pn page 28 seems to show the earlier windscreen?
Something else that arises with this one is the Elevator control points on the fuselage. On N1950 it seeme that the upper exit point is further aft than the lower which is a reversal of the norm but not uncommon apparently?

As a matter of fact the photo of N1844 seems to show the elevator control line exit ports almost in line vertically!
Obviously I have not been in a position to purchase the Newest reference which may indeed answer my questions. So as always any info and help is appreciated!
« Last Edit: December 15, 2018, 11:59:38 AM by RAGIII »
"A man has to know his limitations": Harry Callahan

"Don't slop it on" Lynda Geisler

Offline Rob_Owens

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 295
Re: Nieuport XVII Questions
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2018, 02:05:18 AM »
I think Soubiran's DOES have the clear center panel; it looks like the top of the left front cabane strut is being reflected by it.  If so, you'll need the French (Moreau??) three-legged Lewis mount, and the matching center section will be the one with the constant-width center member (sorry, I can't see the parts numbers in any of the available sprue pics). The windscreen looks to be the flat variant (not the wrap-around frame Nie.11/16 type).  BTW, where did you find the Seminole head in 1/32?
Hth, Rob

Offline Juan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1759
  • All gave some, some gave all.
Re: Nieuport XVII Questions
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2018, 02:32:12 AM »
Hi Rick, based on the photo above I do not see a clear section on this picture (my old eyes may be wrong), and it looks to have the latter windscreen and feed for the deck weapon, also the cowling has the ridges on top, so maybe a late version?  Your opinion will be the one that counts.


Hi Rob, Kiwi Decals makes the markings for this aircraft.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2018, 11:18:44 AM by Juan »

Offline Rob_Owens

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 295
Re: Nieuport XVII Questions
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2018, 03:39:08 AM »
Transparent center section confirmed! Photo of N1977 on page 11 of Windsock Datafile 20 shows it clearly, and it also shows Vickers gun armament, so you have an alternate to the Lewis gun should you choose it.  Wheel covers appear to be the same grey tone as the red of the roundels and the fuselage band; also painted red, perhaps???
Those Kiwi decals look good; nice that we now have a kit worthy of them!!
« Last Edit: December 17, 2018, 04:42:26 AM by Rob_Owens »

Offline RAGIII

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10575
Re: Nieuport XVII Questions
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2018, 02:41:04 PM »
Rob and Juan. Thanks for the responses. I now am really certain that the Soubiran N1977 has the clear panels. I kind of figured out about the proper center section but thanks also for confirming my thought. Also note that it clearly has the riblets on the wings.  Looks like Edgar needs to release an "Early Late " kit to handle some of the oddities  8)

As for the Thenault /Lufberry N1844 I am pretty sure, about 99% that the clear panel is needed. Have not been able to confirm that the wing riblets are present?

What I find interesting is that N1950 between the Lufberry and Soubiran  serials, has riblets and No clear panel. Thus my original statement that serial numbers seem to be no help.
RAGIII
« Last Edit: December 17, 2018, 02:53:17 PM by RAGIII »
"A man has to know his limitations": Harry Callahan

"Don't slop it on" Lynda Geisler

Offline Edgar

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 58
Re: Nieuport XVII Questions
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2018, 09:42:52 PM »
It may be, that we will offe r Wing sprues for sale
Can not confirm this, as it may be that we will do a sort of MID version, to cover that gap where you need late version with clear center)

Offline RAGIII

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10575
Re: Nieuport XVII Questions
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2018, 10:58:32 AM »
It may be, that we will offe r Wing sprues for sale
Can not confirm this, as it may be that we will do a sort of MID version, to cover that gap where you need late version with clear center)
Thanks for the info Edgar. I hope both come to be  8) In the Mean Time I guess I will either do N1950 or hope someone can supply me with their unused center section for the Moreau Mount.
RAGIII
"A man has to know his limitations": Harry Callahan

"Don't slop it on" Lynda Geisler

Offline RAGIII

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10575
Re: Nieuport XVII Questions
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2018, 11:34:34 AM »
Just a note here. I can't begin to say how AWESOME this Forum and its' MEMBERS are. I had just posted my last post and added this kit to my current build thread and had a PM from Petrov27 offering the center panel I need! Thanks Patrick, you are AWESOME!
RAGIII
« Last Edit: December 18, 2018, 11:49:29 AM by RAGIII »
"A man has to know his limitations": Harry Callahan

"Don't slop it on" Lynda Geisler

Offline xan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 604
Re: Nieuport XVII Questions
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2018, 07:53:55 PM »
Hi Rag

i think if you want to represent the lewis mounted you will need to add some things...

first the Lewis is a early MKI (wich is quite rare in ni-17),  the box proposes a MKIII

You can buy a gaspatch MG :



then you will need not one , but the two central parts of early box.

there has been two kind of wings in early planes:
one central rib first , and a renforced version with a double central rib.
CSM represented the both version wich is cool , but they had to do choises and  solidarisated each one with a specific MG mount (Moreau mount for simple rib and N65 mount for double rib)
in reality it was not like that..



Refereng to the serial number your plane had a double rib , it is obvious,
with a Moreau mount...

So you have to cut the central part and change it



I did the inverse operation in mine.
so you could have something like that (you will have to add plastic card in the narrows...)



but to tell you the true , I am not sure at all in the windsock second picture, still had the lewis uppon the wing...(this could resolve your problems...)

Xan
« Last Edit: December 18, 2018, 08:07:53 PM by xan »
"Zwei Armeen, die sich bekšmpfen, sind eine grosse Armee, die Selbstmord an sich Łbt."
Barbusse.
"Une montagne en Allemagne ne peut pas offenser une montagne en France. Ou une riviŤre ou une forÍt ou un champ de blť."
Remarque.

Offline RAGIII

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10575
Re: Nieuport XVII Questions
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2018, 12:53:36 AM »
Thanks for the detailed description of the necessary conversion.... So I guess I need to find one more kind donor for the second N65, type mount  ;D Almost makes me long for the days of my youth when a Nieuport 17 was just a 17 and one slapped on whatever markings they wanted to use  ::)
RAGIII
"A man has to know his limitations": Harry Callahan

"Don't slop it on" Lynda Geisler

Offline Edgar

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 58
Re: Nieuport XVII Questions
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2018, 01:56:46 AM »
I have a needed donor)just PM me about it)

Offline rasbury

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: Nieuport XVII Questions
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2018, 02:52:11 AM »
I would also like to build a Lafayette Escadrille bird. Which CSM kit should I order (early or late)?  I don't have a particular aircraft in mind, so whichever one works is fine with me. Are there any Lafayette Escadrille decals available?

Thanks!
Rob

Offline Rob_Owens

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 295
Re: Nieuport XVII Questions
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2018, 05:31:48 AM »
Rob, I think youíll have to choose a particular pilot/plane before you decide on the kit. Outside of KIWI Resinís decal sheet, I donít know of any 1/32 sheets for the Escadrille Lafayette Nie.17. You could source both the Seminole & Sioux insignia (and perhaps individual pilotsí markings, as I think Thaw and Lufberry flew similarly marked 17ís) from Pheonís 32001 for the Spad VII, but itís now OOP.
Regards, Rob
« Last Edit: December 19, 2018, 06:24:34 AM by Rob_Owens »

Offline RAGIII

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10575
Re: Nieuport XVII Questions
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2018, 05:37:01 AM »
I have a needed donor)just PM me about it)

Awesome Edgar! PM sent.
RAGIII
"A man has to know his limitations": Harry Callahan

"Don't slop it on" Lynda Geisler

Offline RAGIII

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10575
Re: Nieuport XVII Questions
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2018, 05:45:21 AM »
I would also like to build a Lafayette Escadrille bird. Which CSM kit should I order (early or late)?  I don't have a particular aircraft in mind, so whichever one works is fine with me. Are there any Lafayette Escadrille decals available?







Rob, I think youíll have to choose a particular pilot/plane before you decide on the kit. Outside of KIWI Resinís decal sheet, I donít know of an 1/32 sheets for the Escadrille Lafayette Nie.17. You could source both the Seminole & Sioux insignia (and perhaps individual pilotsí markings, as I think Thaw and Lufberry flew similarly marked 17ís) from Pheonís 32001 for the Spad VII, but itís now OOP.
Regards, Rob

Like Rob said the only decals Right Now are the Kiwi markings for Soubirans 17. As you can see that is not an Out of the Box build. N1950 is a straight forward late model and can be built with or without the upper wing MG straight from the Late Model kit. So just need the Lafayette Indian Head insignia.

For an early model Thenaults can be built OOB but you would need to source the Butterfly marking from the aforementioned Pheon sheet. No other markings other than roundels and tail.
RAGIII
"A man has to know his limitations": Harry Callahan

"Don't slop it on" Lynda Geisler