Time for the annual Wingnuts speculation

[Isitwindyyet]

Yes the WWI Goat plane! Surely you must know it - named the Sopwith Goat and later renamed the Kid.



He went on to be a successful pilot in WWII.



But yes float planes, seaplanes, flying boats! I would love to see the Sopwith Baby, W.4 or what about a Seaplane Lighter H21with RNAS Camel!

Ricks idea is good - I would prefer that over the proposed "super" kits.

An alternative I would also like is a "lite" version kit on the cheap - something like Eduard does with their weekend line. Just give me the plastic - no etch, no decals, heck dont even need a box or instructions (as you can get it from the website) - seems like that would dramatically lower the cost on a kit and still be appealing....

But would fly in the face of what they are trying to achieve with the brand, nice idea but when your aim is to be the best why would you want to devalue the brand with carboot sale style sales?

WNW are a niche operator. They don't really have a "brand" as such, so I don't think offering "weekend" editions will affect them at all, other than opening up a whole new market that hitherto could not afford the WNW loveliness.

Eduard do it very well, with normal, weekend & profipack options.

Yes but Eduard is very different that WNW.  Eduard is trying to be all things to all people, every scale, aftermarket, aircraft and armour the list goes on.  I personally don't see it happening for WNW.  As I look at the build logs here I see countless people skip the beautiful Cartograf decals, and choose aftermarket, skip the kit PE belts and use HGW replacements.  I get why people are doing this, sometimes I do it too.  I also think what a waste of money and resources that went into producing these unused items.  They could easily trim $30 off the kit's cost if they ditched the instruction book, fancy box, decals and PE.  Then think of how many more they would sell, but that doesn't seem to be their game.  I'd buy way more Pflaz III's if they came stripped down, and I could buy aftermarket for it, because once you do one or two kit decal schemes I feel you need to go to aftermarket just to get some variety.  Imagine the warehousing nigthmare of having to keep essentially two different kits of each boxing around, then predict how much of each will sell.  I don't think they have a very good grasp of which kits will sell out and which won't based on the discussions of what kits sell out and which don't.  No other company other than Eduard does this, at least that I am aware of.   I would be nice but I don't think it will happen.  WNW seems to sell enough kits using their current system.  Perhaps the rising prices and forthcoming end to free shipping may force their hand to look at this.  Only time will tell.

As for speculation, Nieuport 17.  Bring it!

[Gerg]

Reply to Isitwindyyet:

"As I look at the build logs here I see countless people skip the beautiful Cartograf decals, and choose aftermarket, skip the kit PE belts and use HGW replacements.  I get why people are doing this, sometimes I do it too.  I also think what a waste of money and resources that went into producing these unused items.  They could easily trim $30 off the kit's cost if they ditched the instruction book, fancy box, decals and PE."

One of the things that drew me to WNW is the completeness of their kits. I am a casual builder. Once I start a kit I like to learn more about it, the people that flew it, and its context in the history of WW1, but I am not wanting to spend a great deal of time beforehand researching what is needed to build a nice model. The completeness of their kits means I can buy a subject that is appealing and once started learn more about it. I see your point, if you want many examples of the same kit then decals are something that will not be used or wanted.

Despite the many hardcore builders on this site I would suspect that the greater number of their sales are to the casual builder or builder that is looking for one example to add to their display case.

As to the instruction booklet, curse you for suggesting that they ditch it!  Rather than them ditching it, the rest of the manufacturers need to up their game and start producing instructions as good as WNW. 

[Des]

I agree with Greg, ditching the instruction book in its now famous and well recognised format would be a disaster, Wingnuts have set a bench mark with their superb instruction books and hopefully other manufacturers can learn by this. It may increase the price of the overall kit but in my opinion it is worth every cent.

Des.

[zavod44]

Sounds great, I would not think it's anything they want to dilute their brand with.  They obviously do what they want and huge profits aren's necessarily the number one goal, otherwise they would still be making and selling a large amount of Fokker D VII's and Albatros'....I wouldn't be looking for the WNW weekender kits anytime soon....

[Gerg]

Reply to Kai

"But nobody is asking WNW to ditch the instructions." 

Actually that is what Isitwindyet stated.

But really there is no significant cost in the printed booklet. The real cost is in the development of the instructions. Once that part is done it costs pennies to print and place in the kit. That would likely be true of all the items mentions. The cost of the decals is in their development or the pe. Pennies for the actual material and manufacture.
 
IMHO a basic striped down kit would only be a few dollars less to manufacture than the present standard kit.

[rhwinter]

Sounds good to me, Kai! Anybody around here to write the E-Mail to Richard Alexander at WnW?

[stefanbuss]

We are just suggesting WNW offer a "weekend" version in addition - so the instructions will remain in the normal boxing, so nothing is taken away, it just offers more choice for those of us on a more restricted budget. The price increases have simply taken some kits out of peoples reach financially and this would be a way to allow them to continue to buy WNW kits, without WNW having to reduce prices of their standard boxings.

Just an idea, one that will never be implemented, buy fun to think about.

Yes, indeed. I like that idea.

[macsporran]

Sounds good to me, Kai! Anybody around here to write the E-Mail to Richard Alexander at WnW?

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Des.  Administrator. 

[eclarson]

How about taking another page from Eduard's play book and offer full "overtrees" of certain kits.  WNW already does this in a limited fashion with the various engine and accessories sprues. 

Eric

[Gerg]

While the idea of a stripped down version is a good one I don't see it happening with WNW. They have already shown us that they need every penny they can get in order to remain solvent. Or so it would seem. They have a limited market as many on here have indicated. Niche is the term used I believe. So their ability to generate revenue is limited. As I have said in the past, WnW is unique in their business plan. No middle men, all money goes to them minus shipping, material cost, and the big one, development (3D modeling, molds, artwork, instructions, etc) Apparently they feel that the prices set are what is needed to keep doing what they are doing.

One the other hand a company such as Eduard have a different business model. One that likely has much higher margins for profit. Margins that allow for a deep cut for middle men and dealers. Also, are they like every other manufacturer? Do they have a suggested retail price which their product is rarely sold for? 

If we are to trust what we have heard from WNW they don't have any margin for discounts, for sales, for a distribution network.

As I stated before the actual cost of materials that go into a kit amount to so little that removing some items would not reduce the cost to WNW in any substantial way. Their ability to reduce the cost and still make what they have deemed necessary would not amount to much savings for us.

As always, just an opinion.

[stefanbuss]

One the other hand a company such as Eduard have a different business model.

Gerg,

do you have any evidence for that statement?

Kindest regards,
Stefan

[Isitwindyyet]

Reply to Isitwindyyet:

"As I look at the build logs here I see countless people skip the beautiful Cartograf decals, and choose aftermarket, skip the kit PE belts and use HGW replacements.  I get why people are doing this, sometimes I do it too.  I also think what a waste of money and resources that went into producing these unused items.  They could easily trim $30 off the kit's cost if they ditched the instruction book, fancy box, decals and PE.

As to the instruction booklet, curse you for suggesting that they ditch it!  Rather than them ditching it, the rest of the manufacturers need to up their game and start producing instructions as good as WNW.

I only suggested the ditch the instructions for the stripped down kits. The instructions are available online anyway. I don't want them to change their existing kits at all. What was suggested is that they try stripped down boxings as a low price alternative to the existing product line. Which doesn't seem to be a likely option as it doesn't seem to fit their business plan, and as others have said we have zero insight into their plans.  It did seem to have been mentioned when the company first got rolling that they would release an ever further upscale boxings of some kits with extra PE, expanded decals, etc.  This is very similar to Eduard's Royal Class boxings, so it wasn't such a far stretch to the idea of stripped down versions such as the Weekend Editions also from Eduard.  However with the price increases and so to be shipping charges I don't think I'll be lining up to buy enhanced boxings from WNW at a priemum price. I'd be more likely to buy basic kits of the boxings where I have already purchased more than one.

None of this matters as WNW does what they want. We just vote with our dollars. Since the price increase, I haven't voted once for WNW.

As for the instructions I am not the biggest fan they have. While they are indeed excellent, with lots of reference pictures. There is room for improvement. I'm not yet fully experienced reading the assembly diagrams. I have over 30 years reading Tamiya's assembly diagrams and if for no other reason other than experience I like it better.  With Tamiya's newer 1:32 they include a full colour reference booklet, which again works for me. The biggest area for improvement for WNW to make in their instructions is in the actual decal placement guide. They need to give at least one full scale plan for decal placements, and following demarcation lines, like Tamiya.  Sometimes on the WNW decal guide they don't give full views, and say refer to scheme A. So they may indeed be the best instructions included in a model kit, they are not however the best that they could be. Always room for improvement.

[Gerg]

One the other hand a company such as Eduard have a different business model.

Gerg,

do you have any evidence for that statement?

Kindest regards,
Stefan

Evidence? I can only look at their different approach to selling their product. I am going to paint a broad stroke here. I am going to place WNW on one side and everyone else on the other. Now I am going to use Tamiya as an example, rather than Eduard, simple because I am more familiar with them. I don't think these two companies differ much from one another or the rest of the model manufacturers.

The big difference I see between WNW and everyone else is it appears that everyone else is in it for the long haul. Look at how long companies like Tamiya (I could list many others here) have been around and that is not hard to see. On the other hand I don't get that vibe with WNW. As others have said, "they do what they want regardless..."  Maybe one day they will be a grand old company. Who knows?  Now, why this is important? Tamiya makes a kit with the intentions of producing it for years and years. Many of their older kits are still very good. Their approach is to cover their development costs and make their profit over a decade or longer, for any given kit. This is a excellent thing to do. Good for us and good for them. With WNW who knows? Maybe we will see a more expensive version of a sold out kit, maybe we won't. My point: the pool of modelers that are covering the cost of developing a kit is smaller with WNW. That means we all pay a bigger share. It is almost like WNW is wanting to cover their entire investment for any given model with a single product run. How else can you explain their reluctance to produce the sold out kits again? Once sold out their cost are covered with that kit, no need to produce it again? I really think this is one of the reasons WNW kits are priced as high as they are. I know there are a great many on here that feel that they are a bargain, worth every penny. There is also the argument that since they are a niche market with a smaller pool of buyers the prices need to be higher. I don't agree with all that. You take Tamiya with their 1/350 ship line. Now there is a niche market. Even so Tamiya comes out with a new Yamato a few years ago. Over 1500 pieces. An excellent model all the way around. The retail price is $450 USD but can be bought for $210 including shipping. Even at that price the retailer is making a profit, so are the middle men. How much do you think Tamiya gets? Only guessing but I would think maybe $100, $125? From this amount Tamiya deducts expenses. Can you image a kit from WNW with over 1500 pieces and the attached price tag?!  How can Tamiya do it? They will be selling that kit for decades.

This is really where WNW differs the greatest I think. it may not be their intentions of being around forever. I don't really believe that so I wish they would spread out their investment over a greater length of time and save us all some money.

[Isitwindyyet]

Another Eduard idea I'd like to see WNW follow would be to make some kits into the dual combo. Jam two kits into one box, and if necessary make the box slightly bigger. This would really help when the free shipping ends. Since most postage is calculated on a formula of box size and weight. The box size wouldn't be much bigger and the weight wouldn't change much either.  Compare that to ordering two separate kits in their own individual boxes, and there should be some food savings on shipping. As the world shifts to online sales, the shipping companies will just get richer.

[Black Max 72]

I've had a problem with the WnW business model  for a long time, for a large part it's personal as I got on board rather late and missed several kits that I wanted. Like most people I can't afford to buy all the kits I want in one go, I have my wish list but it is rather sickening to be constantly checking to see which kit I want will sell out next  and there's just no way of predicting. The molds are obviously not short run, so what is the plan? the super kits are more than likely off the table and WnW have not made any mention of doing new production runs. I agree the Weekend Edition idea has merit but is unlikely.  Just a thought,  if WnW is not going to produce any more of the sold out kits is another possibility that they might sell the molds to another company similar to what Eduard has done with Revell? We've also seen molds  from defunct companies change hands many times as well. It seems silly to spend so much on the development of these truly groundbreaking kits only to do limited production runs. And moreover by doing this they are supporting (if only tacitly) the Ebay market for their kits. WnW gets none of that money though as has been said that's not what they seem to be doing this for. I disagree that they are a niche product, they may have been at first but not now. If they were a niche product why are they demanding such high prices on Ebay? It has to be the demand for the product and it can't just be coming from the WWI Modelling community.  I have an Accurate Miniatures 1/48 B-25 Doolittle Raider boxed, no longer in production sitting in the cupboard  yet if I try to sell it on Ebay I would be lucky to break even with what I paid for it years ago yet the prices for WnW kits are over the top. Imagine if WnW suddenly announced new production runs on all their sold out kits, the Ebay market would go dead overnight, an RE8 going for US$300 an up would instantly be worth less than what WnW would charge. These kits were engineered to be built not collected but by doing short production runs WnW has created (inadvertently) a collectible market. I think WnW have seriously underestimated the demand for their product. Not only are the WWI modelling community  buying these kits but others who probably avoided Biplane kits have heard about the quality and are giving them a go. I read many reviews in modelling mags along those lines. Anyway just my two cents.

Dave.