Author Topic: CSM Nieuport 17 sneak peek  (Read 6326 times)

Online coyotemagic

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Re: CSM Nieuport 17 sneak peek
« Reply #30 on: August 08, 2018, 02:41:41 AM »
And what I find most heartening about this is that the above reads as though is Rowan is feeling quite chipper and back on his game. True story, Rowan?....you doing better?

👍 My thoughts!

Same here!
Cheers,
Bud
"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream in the dark recesses of the night awake in the day to find all was vanity. But the dreamers of day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, and make it possible." -T. E. Lawrence

Offline miecio52

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Re: CSM Nieuport 17 sneak peek
« Reply #31 on: August 08, 2018, 03:26:55 PM »
I am already very happy for the decals designs  by Melius Manu. :)
« Last Edit: August 08, 2018, 04:32:46 PM by miecio52 »
Regards
 Mietek
 IPMS Poland / Silesia

Offline Gene K

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Re: CSM Nieuport 17 sneak peek
« Reply #32 on: August 11, 2018, 02:21:38 AM »
In the meantime:

'Wings Cockpit Figures' have a generic French pilot - Check out the FaceBook page,

'Blackdog Models' have two French pilot figures.

'Kellerkind Miniatures' have several generic French pilots.

Thank you! Perhaps in future posts you could include links as well?

This is definitely my most anticipated kit of the year!!

Gene K
« Last Edit: August 11, 2018, 02:27:40 AM by Gene K »

Offline sandbagger

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Re: CSM Nieuport 17 sneak peek
« Reply #33 on: August 11, 2018, 03:46:16 AM »
Mikes WW1 Aircraft Models

Served in the RAF for 27 years - now a retired Military Aerospace Technical Author.

Offline Gene K

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Re: CSM Nieuport 17 sneak peek
« Reply #34 on: August 11, 2018, 04:25:38 AM »
Thanks, Mike ... I had already searched those out after your kind references.

And ... very impressive builds that you display on your site!

Gene K

Offline Gene K

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Re: CSM Nieuport 17 sneak peek
« Reply #35 on: September 04, 2018, 10:36:48 PM »
CSM says "Nieuport XVII"?    ???   I think "Nieuport 17" is correct, the last Roman numeral Nieuport being the XIII. As an example of Nieuport numbering "confusion", note that the Nieuport XI is not the same aircraft as the Nieuport 11.

Gene K


Offline xan

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Re: CSM Nieuport 17 sneak peek
« Reply #36 on: September 05, 2018, 12:21:04 AM »
CSM says "Nieuport XVII"?    ???   I think "Nieuport 17" is correct, the last Roman numeral Nieuport being the XIII.

oh! Nieuport manufacter wasn't aware about that...  ;)



note that the Nieuport XI is not the same aircraft as the Nieuport 11.
I am quite interested to know the diferences betwen Ni-11 and ni-XI...

Xan

« Last Edit: September 05, 2018, 12:28:01 AM by xan »
"Zwei Armeen, die sich bekämpfen, sind eine grosse Armee, die Selbstmord an sich übt."
Barbusse.
"Une montagne en Allemagne ne peut pas offenser une montagne en France. Ou une rivière ou une forêt ou un champ de blé."
Remarque.

Offline sandbagger

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Re: CSM Nieuport 17 sneak peek
« Reply #37 on: September 05, 2018, 12:27:30 AM »
The Nieuport XI was a prototype single-seat sport monoplane similar to Nieuport II, but with constant chord wings. The Nieuport II was a single-seat sport/racing monoplane powered by a variety of engines.

WIKIPEDIA:
Nieuport I - retroactive designation for pod and boom tractor monoplane, destroyed during the 1910 Great Flood of Paris after one flight.
Nieuport II - single-seat sport/racing monoplane powered by a variety of engines.
Nieuport III - two-seat sport/racing monoplane with Anzani engine.
Nieuport IV - two-seat sport/racing monoplane.
Nieuport VI - three-seat sport monoplane used by French Navy and Royal Naval Air Service.
Nieuport VIII - two-seat sport monoplane, variant of VI for Turkey.
Nieuport X - three-seat monoplane similar to VI but with constant chord wings, used by French Navy.
Nieuport XI - prototype single-seat sport monoplane similar to II but with constant chord wings.
Nieuport XIII - prototype armoured monoplane similar to the X

The designation system of Nieuport’s aircraft is clearly explained in a book Nieuport Aircraft of World war One by Ray Sanger – page 6.

In brief:

Initially, airplanes were designated with Roman numbers supplemented sometimes with capital letters to indicate their purpose (for example M like Militaire) or the type of engine (for example Nieuport type IIN – it was Nieuport II fitted with Nieuport engine, Nieuport type IID – it was Nieuport II with Darracq engine)

First Nieuport biplanes were derivatives of monoplanes and they had been given designations after their predecessors, supplemented with letter B to indicate they were biplanes.

Roman numbers were replaced by Arabic numerals in 1917.

Contemporary designation of the plane we know as Nieuport 10 was Nieuport type XB because it was biplane derivative of Nieuport X. The same rule applies to the aircraft we know as Nieuport 11.

So, there were:

-   Nieuport X – a monoplane built in 1913,
-   Nieuport XB later renamed Nieuport 10 – a biplane built in 1914,
-   Nieuport XI – a monoplane built in 1913,
-   Nieuport XIB later renamed Nieuport 11 – a biplane developed during the Great War.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2018, 12:36:02 AM by sandbagger »
Mikes WW1 Aircraft Models

Served in the RAF for 27 years - now a retired Military Aerospace Technical Author.

Offline xan

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Re: CSM Nieuport 17 sneak peek
« Reply #38 on: September 05, 2018, 12:30:27 AM »
we are talking about ni-11 not ni-II, if I am not wrong..

Xan
"Zwei Armeen, die sich bekämpfen, sind eine grosse Armee, die Selbstmord an sich übt."
Barbusse.
"Une montagne en Allemagne ne peut pas offenser une montagne en France. Ou une rivière ou une forêt ou un champ de blé."
Remarque.

Offline xan

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Re: CSM Nieuport 17 sneak peek
« Reply #39 on: September 05, 2018, 12:37:37 AM »
Anyway, during the great war, pilot and manufacturer spoke more about the engine power to call the different plane



first it was

80hp for ni-11
110hp for ni-16

then when ni-17 appears with bigger wings , they speak about

13m²80hp   for ni-11
13m²110hp for ni-16
15m² 110hp for ni-17
15m² 80 hp for ni-21

Bernard Klaeley wich is the best french specialist about nieuport use the both way , ni-11 and ni-XI.

Xan
« Last Edit: September 05, 2018, 12:42:05 AM by xan »
"Zwei Armeen, die sich bekämpfen, sind eine grosse Armee, die Selbstmord an sich übt."
Barbusse.
"Une montagne en Allemagne ne peut pas offenser une montagne en France. Ou une rivière ou une forêt ou un champ de blé."
Remarque.

Offline Gene K

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Re: CSM Nieuport 17 sneak peek
« Reply #40 on: September 05, 2018, 01:13:47 AM »
we are talking about ni-11 not ni-II, if I am not wrong..

No, we are talking about the Nieuport 17. The Nieuport 11, Nieuport II, and Nieuport XI difference was already well explained by sandbagger. Here is a photo of the Nieuport II since you asked:



Pretty slick for its time, I think.  :)

Gene K
« Last Edit: September 05, 2018, 01:20:10 AM by Gene K »

Online Borsos

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Re: CSM Nieuport 17 sneak peek
« Reply #41 on: September 05, 2018, 01:27:26 AM »
Hey folks,
sandbaggers list might show the theory, but like so often things in practice didn't care about that: You find the designation "Nieuport X" in many contemporary reports and photo captions for a "Nieuport 10", "Nieuport XI" for "Nieuport 11" and "Nieuport XVII" for "Nieuport 17". It seems more like a habit, like some people are used to (or were used to respectively) write the month of a date in roman letterings like 15/XI/1916 instead of 15.11.1916. So if the Nieuport factory itself called their Nieuport 17 a Nieuport XVII, then we shouldn't think to kniw it better, don't you think? ;)
Andreas
"Deux armées aux prises, c'est une grande armée qui se suicide."
Barbusse.
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Offline Gene K

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Re: CSM Nieuport 17 sneak peek
« Reply #42 on: September 05, 2018, 01:42:35 AM »
So if the Nieuport factory itself called their Nieuport 17 a Nieuport XVII, then we shouldn't think to kniw it better, don't you think? ;)

In your context, of course we shouldn't think we know "better".  I'll bet though, that you use "Nieuport 17", right?

To close my participation on the subject, my suggestion is only that CSM standardize their labeling, and in that regard, that "Nieuport 17" should be that standard.

Gene K

Online Borsos

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Re: CSM Nieuport 17 sneak peek
« Reply #43 on: September 05, 2018, 02:11:41 AM »
So if the Nieuport factory itself called their Nieuport 17 a Nieuport XVII, then we shouldn't think to kniw it better, don't you think? ;)

In your context, of course we shouldn't think we know "better".  I'll bet though, that you use "Nieuport 17", right?


Depends on the situation. I use Nieuport 17 and Nieuport XVII and never had any misunderstandings...
"Deux armées aux prises, c'est une grande armée qui se suicide."
Barbusse.
"Ein Berg in Deutschland kann doch einen Berg in Frankreich nicht beleidigen. Oder ein Fluß oder ein Wald oder ein Weizenfeld."
Remarque.

Offline RLWP

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Re: CSM Nieuport 17 sneak peek
« Reply #44 on: September 05, 2018, 03:36:01 AM »
but like so often things in practice didn't care about that: You find the designation "Nieuport X" in many contemporary reports

Particularly in Russia. I recently bought this (for £8) and the 10 and 11 are referred to as X and XI. ISTR coming across this in one of the Bruce books too

Richard