Nieuport 11 1:32 (Special Hobby)

[Borsos]

When I saw Frank (bughunters) Nieuport 17 built my mouth started to water. I especially liked his use of real wood when making the struts and the tail skid.
Not even realizing what I did my hands took one of the Special Hobby boxings of the Nieuport 11 out of the stash and started to cut some parts from the sprues. Here you see what happened:

The kit is awesome -- besides of the engine. The resin engine has absolutely nothing to do with an 80hp LeRhone. Some months ago I had purchased a resin kit of the 80hp LeRhone via ebay. I have forgotten the name of the manufacturer. It came in a simple plastig bag without any instructions or anything else. But after assembling the engine I wouldn't name the producer anyway even if I could remember him, as it's simply a resin copy of the WNW Le Rhone. I don't think I go too far when I doubt that its a legal copy...

Pirated or not, THAT's a 80hp Le Rhone and it fits perfectly under the cowling. It just needs some more detailing... and replacing the small parts that were broken in the bag.
I decided not to use the Special Hobby cowling because after studying my photo references it seems like it is more a Nieuport 16 cowling and the Nieuport 11s had one that covered more of the engine. I borrowed the two-part cowling from an A-Model Nieuport 16 (which seems to be the propper one for my Nieport 11) and will replace it with the SH cowling.
I also build a new seat from plastic sheet and added a putty cushion.

And I started detailing the wheels

The fuselage sides were rigged and painted (paint removed at the front as it's a tight fit to close the fuselages):


As it is not my first early Nieuport I had naively thought I knew enough about these machines. But already the cockpit inteior prooved me wrong. Special Hobby offers a clock-like device for the left fuselage side (unlainted resin). But the photos in the WDF Special volume one show a pulsometer on this place. But was this the case only for British Nieuports and the clock-like device from SH is right for French planes?

Besides of that I am still thinking about the color sheme. At the beginning I was thinking about N1222 flown by Raymond Lis at the Verdun front in April 1916 from Lemmes aerodrome:

There are better pics that show the personal marking, but I sadly have no idea how this machine was painted. as its number is 1222 it cannot be CDL, this bird is too late for that, although its edges look like horizon blue tape which was used on CDL Nieuports. N1222 iis obviously painted in a solid color - creme like Chapmans N1148? Or aluminium like N1109?
What do you think?

There is another Nieuport from N65 that I really like:

It's personal marking seems to have been a cat waiting before a birdcage hanging from the moon. Cute!
https://forum.pages14-18.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=49758&start=0
But sadly I don't know it's number, because the rudder is not visible...
hm, well, enough time to tink and rethink the color question...

Best regars
Borsos

[RAGIII]

Excellent start! Your usual beautiful work!
RAGIII

[xan]

Hi Borsos
I will scheck...

Xan

[xan]

First thing, that is what I have about the N°1222

n°1222  plane: N 11 squadron : N 15 when:  1916     pilot: Lt Raymond Lis   description:  personal decoration  "Lis"  and french flag on  fuselage

So it seems to be your plane....
in the fuselage L letter can be seen...
I will ask about more info for that plane....


About nieuport paint, in 1916 you have this excellent work of Marc Chassard. I think he sell it for 25 euro (with transport) with the color chart, with real fabric doped.





if you are interested, i can give you his mail...

Xan

[jeroen_R90S]

Nice work so far! I have the SH Nieuport 16, so I'm following along and picking up tips and stuff!

[Borsos]

Thank you very much, guys!

Xan, yes, I have these publications and am really happy with them. Since I've seen Shepards painting of N1136 from N26 I am rethinking the two-three or four camouflage colors- question
Lis' 1222 is quite well documented. I found three photos online that show both sides of the fuselage and there's a fourth pic in Chassards "Air war of two aces", p. 96, that shows even the wheel coves, that were painted another color than the fuselage. The question I could not solve yet is, what special unique color the plane was painted. The visible horizon blue tapes at the edges of fuselage and wings speaks for clear doped linen, but 1222 is too late for that and neither the fuselage nor the wings look translucent. It's not brown-green camouflaged, so it could have been white dope like Viktor Chapmans Nieuport no 1148, a zinc oxide based dope from the Nauton frères & de Marsac company. But that's not very plausible, as the fuselage color contrasts with the white of the tricolore which for me also excludes white and aluminium dope like on Nugessers N1139. Aluminium dope is also not possible because it was introduced in June, tested in May 1916 and not in April. There's the hypothesis of a red-brown dope also, but this color is only seen on Nugessers N1130, and it could be simply his individual red paint, no experimental dope. At last there's the 800 series of Nieuports, produced in March 1916, during the green/brown camouflage period. The 800 series of Nieuports seem to have been painted or doped in blue horizon like Guynemers N836 or N889. This very last plane, N889 has a fuselage cockarde, converted into a question mark and seems to be the same plane which is also on the aforementioned picture of N1222 in Chassards book. The colors of N889 (if I am right and it is the same plane) and N1222 look quite similar so I would tend to this "vernis gras", a blue-grey like André Dunoyer de Segonzac has painted his Nieuports on another painting. This would be my explanation, but, well, N1222 is not within the 800 series.... Maybe Lis' machine had a replacement rudder and the original serial number had been within the 800 range? That's my working hypothesis at the moment...
Borsos

[xan]

I have these publications and am really happy with them.

Why am I not surprised? 

Since I've seen Shepards painting of N1136 from N26 I am rethinking the two-three or four camouflage colors- question

more important is for me the factory pic with working man painting the wing with two paint airbrush...

it could have been white dope like Viktor Chapmans Nieuport no 1148, a zinc oxide based dope from the Nauton frères & de Marsac company. But that's not very plausible, as the fuselage color contrasts with the white of the tricolore

i would do ot white , or better said cream (doing a difference with cocarde's white)
Just as Tarascon plane (n°1139, not that far)

There's the hypothesis of a red-brown dope also, but this color is only seen on Nugessers N1130, and it could be simply his individual red paint, no experimental dope.

In that point I desagree with Marc.
Navarre (and not Nungesser ;-) ) says in his memory he choose the red color to be recognize:


I represented the n°1130 like that:




Xan

[Borsos]

Navarre, of course...

The serials are a good argument for the creme color. But neither Tarascons nor Chapmans Nieuport have visible dark tapes along the edges. Lis' plane has them. For me that speaks more for a translucent dope like the mentioned blue grey - painted over a linnen colored Nieuport with blue horizon taping...

[xan]

neither Tarascons nor Chapmans Nieuport have visible dark tapes along the edges. Lis' plane has them.

I am not sure at all it had them.
I don't think dark marks in the fuselage are dark tapes as early ni-11 had. Look at the rear part of the fuselage; between the pilot and the blue color of french flag , I  do not see any tape do you?
Furthermore, blue dopen planes are as far as i know in the 800 serial...

Xan

[ondra]

Nice work so far, Andreas, I will be following with great interest!

Cheers

Ondra

[Borsos]

Thank you ondra!

Xan, here are the other two photos of N1222 I found online:

I think there are tapes: Very well visible on the trailing edges of the lower wing, but also on the fuselage. I interprete the aera between pilot and elevators on the very first pic of N1222, that you pointed to, as painted blue, the tricolore already starts there.

Well, to sum up: the serials speak for a creme color overall. As blue-grey planes were in the 800 series. But the existence of blue-grey taping on the edges, I thought, would have spoken for a translucent blue-grey over all. Neither Tarascons nor Chapmans creme Bieuports have visible tapes. BUT:
Gunemeyers N836 -- which was painted blue-grey overall according to common sense -- doesn't show dark taping neither:

I decided to paint Lis' Nieuport N1222, if I decide to do his colors, pink overall. Who can proove me wrong? 
Borsos

[lcarroll]

    This is a really enjoyable and informed discussion that I've enjoyed and learned a lot from. As for your "pink" solution Andreas, I agree completely, "who can prove you wrong" as is so true in most of these cases! At least there's no PC.10 in the "mix"!  
Cheers,
Lance

[Bughunter]

When I saw Frank (bughunters) Nieuport 17 built my mouth started to water.

What a praise of my work [red face smiley] Thanks for looking.

Not even realizing what I did my hands took one of the Special Hobby boxings of the Nieuport 11 out of the stash

Let your well trained hands continue to work in such fantastic way, your model will blow away my Nieuport easily!

Have fun,
Frank

[Juan]

Outstanding start Andreas, another beauty in progress.  Looking forward to your updates.

[GAJouette]

 Andreas,
Absolutely beautiful progress my old friend. I have the same kit in the stash so I'll be following with the greatest of interest . Keep the highest standards of excellence.
 .
 Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette