Mr Color - Thinner

[Ian from Doncaster]

I have just ordered some Mr Metal paint, copper, brass and chrome silver.  This is because I've not been happy particularly with the paints I use so far, especially brass - and also due to the results I have seen here, by our host Des for example.

The paints are supposed to airbrush straight from the pot without thinning, however I tend to hand brush mostly.  Is there a recommended thinner to use for hand brushing?  I am cautious about spraying where I'd need a mask, so hand brushing may be safer?  I have read that brushes can be cleaned with water, so would water be ok for a thinner here?  I have used water for Humbrol and Revell acrylic thinning routinely for both spray and hand brushing.

Please excuse my ignorance!

[gcn]

Gunze paints are like Tamiya in that they don't brush well at all, some can do it but its hard work.

They airbrush magnificently though but as a thinner I'd be using either their own brand thinner, tamiya thinner or cellulose thinner. Not water.

I'd say they will need thinning if your airbrushing and they do smell, the trade off is they are the creme de la menthe of paints.

[Des]

When using Gunze acrylics I use an air brush 99% of the time, to thin the paint I add a tad of lacquer thinners, makes the paint spray beautifully. For the Mr Metal Colors I also thin with lacquer thinners, the Mr Metal range of paints are lacquer based and will not brush well at all, they dry extremely fast and are buffable, sprayed from an air brush they look fantastic. Using a mask when spraying is an essential part of this hobby, the fumes from any paints can be harmful esspecially lacquer, a really good chemical filter mask is very important for the sake of your health.

Des.

[Ian from Doncaster]

Thanks for the advice.  I may have to invest in some extra kit!  When I do use my airbrush, I've usually done so in the open air.

[uncletony]

A small note: "Lacquer Thinner" is a somewhat generic term covering lots of nitrocellulose products, not an exact chemical formulation. Automotive painters know you use hardware store grade lacquer thinner for clean-up, never for thinning finish paint. For that you use the thinner supplied by the paint mfr. Blushing is one problem caused by cheap thinner.

Gunze thinner and Tamiya Thinner smell very different -- Gunze smells like liquid plastic cement to me. Personally I use the thinner specified by the paint mfr for that particular color. I've also used hardware store lacquer thinner with Tamiya acrylics for primer layers -- it seems to make the stuff stick to bare plastic slightly better.

For brushing Tamiya & Gunze acrylics, you almost have to add acrylic retarder; the stuff kicks in a few seconds otherwise. You can get retarder at any decent art supply store. Some people use antifreeze (Ethylene Glycol) as retarder. If you do use antifreeze note that it is usually very toxic.

[lcarroll]

I have been trying (unsuccesfully) to hit the "Big City" Hobby Shops I use coincident with their having in stock Tamiya Laquer Thinner. I was advised by Spencer Pollard of Military in Scale that Tamiya Paints are really a Laquer based product; he used the laquer thinner exclusively during his Demo at a Show I attended. He cautioned that regular commercial laquer thinners are too strong and to avoid them. What thinners are you guys using and do you have any advice in this regard? (I have a few small bottles of Model Master Laquer thinner which I use with Mr. Metal Colour however it seems pretty strong, at least it sure smells strong.)
Cheers,
Lance

[Des]

I use lacquer thinners purchased from my local hardware store, a 1 litre tin cost around $14AU. It is an Australian brand called 'DIGGERS' and the product use description is as follows;

Thinning lacquer and varnish
Cleaning solvent
High gloss
Improves paint consistency
Control paint evaporation
Reduces the risk of imperfections
Fast drying

I also use Enamel thinners for thinning my Humbrol paints, again cost around $14AU for a 1 litre tin purchased from my local hardware store. This is also made by 'DIGGERS' and has the following product description;

Spray applications
Automotive/DIY
Professional finish
Improves paint consistency
Allows paint to acquire optimum film characteristics

I use the lacquer thinners for cleaning my air brush after spraying any type of paint, it does a great job cleaning out the gun. As with all paint spraying, i use a chemical gas mask, lacquer thinner fumes can be deadly.

A 1 litre tin of these thinners goes a long way and is far less expensive than buying the paint manufacturers thinners. I have never had a problem using these thinner, they mix extremely well with the paints I use and helps to adhere to the plastic.

Des.

[pepperman42]

I use my Dupont Duracryl lacquer thinner for certain jobs but often default to my inexpensive Canadian Tire lacquer thinner. I bought a gallon of the Dupont years ago and still have some left. Its not cheap but it lasts forever. The CT product performs quite well and I havent suffered any blushing.

Steve

[coyotemagic]

I use the Klean-Strip brand from Home Depot and it works perfectly with Mr Color paints, which I use more than any other paint.
Cheers,
Bud

[LindsayT]

The paints are supposed to airbrush straight from the pot without thinning, however I tend to hand brush mostly.

Pardon my ignorance, Ian, but I'm wondering about your technique for thinning when brush painting. Are you systematic about it (using a specific ratio of paint : thinner) or is it more just a dab of paint here, a dab of thinner there?

Being a total ignorant noob, I don't currently thin when I brush. I'd like to give it a try to see how it turns out and I'm just wondering how a fellow brush painter goes about it.

Thanks for putting up with the question!

Lindsay

[Dal Gavan]

G'day, Ian.

For larger areas you don't need thinner, or even primer on the plastic, when using Mr Metal Color.  The link here shows a method I've used quite successfully on my Pfalz engine and cowling bits: http://www.essmc.org.au/Natural_Metal_Finish.html.  The finish is quite fragile, as noted, but looks very good.  And it happily accepts using an oil dot filter to show weathering- but use a dry brush rather than one loaded with thinner- thinner will lift the paint.

For smaller pieces, using their brass, I've found the paint goes on nicely over a matt dark brown if you use a toothpick and stir the paint for a minute, then take the paint off the toothpick with your brush.  Leave some of the bark brown showing at the corners and around fittings for a weathered look, or cover it all and polish with a soft brush, as Des recommends, for something better maintained.

Cheers.

Dal.

[Ian from Doncaster]

The paints are supposed to airbrush straight from the pot without thinning, however I tend to hand brush mostly.

Pardon my ignorance, Ian, but I'm wondering about your technique for thinning when brush painting. Are you systematic about it (using a specific ratio of paint : thinner) or is it more just a dab of paint here, a dab of thinner there?

Being a total ignorant noob, I don't currently thin when I brush. I'd like to give it a try to see how it turns out and I'm just wondering how a fellow brush painter goes about it.

Thanks for putting up with the question!

Lindsay

Hi Lindsay - thanks for the question.  I was referring to the paints I currently use, not yet Mr Metal.

I use Revell and Humbrol up to now.  For the acrylics I thin with water, for both spraying and hand brushing.  For spraying the amount of water I use is less but I don't have a fixed formula as the paint in the pot is of varying thickness to start with, especially Revell. For hand brushing, I usually start 50/50, perhaps even more water.  I rarely spray these days as many of the components are so small.  For enamels, I use the manufacturers thinner.  Although this is costly per unit volume, I don't use much.  For Humbrol Metalcote out of the tinlets, I hand brush having thinned a little with white spirit.  This seems to work quite well. 

In general, I thin until I'm happy with the consistency, usually testing on a scrap bit of plastic or on the flat areas of my pallet.  I used to thin much less, due to my impatience, but these days I have tempered that and don't mind adding 3 or 4 very thin almost wash coats.

For priming, and for large areas where I will do a few layers of colours, I often use Humbrol rattle tins.  This is probably because I am too lazy to prep and clean my airbrush for a few seconds spraying!  I know the rattle tins are wasteful and much of the paint is lost to the atmosphere, but I build so slowly that I don't mind this.

When I spray, I always spray outside or open to the air, as I don't have masks.  This is also why I will hand brush wherever I can get away with it, to minimize the thinner vapours (not a problem with water!) and hence my question about Mr Color/Mr Metal.

[Ian from Doncaster]

G'day, Ian.

For larger areas you don't need thinner, or even primer on the plastic, when using Mr Metal Color.  The link here shows a method I've used quite successfully on my Pfalz engine and cowling bits: http://www.essmc.org.au/Natural_Metal_Finish.html.  The finish is quite fragile, as noted, but looks very good.  And it happily accepts using an oil dot filter to show weathering- but use a dry brush rather than one loaded with thinner- thinner will lift the paint.

For smaller pieces, using their brass, I've found the paint goes on nicely over a matt dark brown if you use a toothpick and stir the paint for a minute, then take the paint off the toothpick with your brush.  Leave some of the bark brown showing at the corners and around fittings for a weathered look, or cover it all and polish with a soft brush, as Des recommends, for something better maintained.

Cheers.

Dal.

Thanks for the link Dal - very informative description of using such paint, with a hand brush and without thinners. I suppose we all develop the techniques which work best for ourselves, but I will certainly give that method a go when my paints arrive.  My biggest "problem" has been getting a decent polished brass.

[LindsayT]

Very helpful, Ian, thanks for the reply. The part about the thin wash-like consistency is a key one for me, I think. I always wondered how you could build up colour when the paint was so thin, but now see that that's the whole point, it makes a lot of sense. I think I'll be giving that a try next build.

Cheers,

LT

[Ian from Doncaster]

If I am hand brushing thinned paint on small components, I often use a hairdryer to speed up the drying process and also to drive out any excess paint to avoid it settling in the detail of the molding.