Author Topic: Barraca's SPAD XIII  (Read 3344 times)

Offline Marco

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Re: Barraca's SPAD XIII
« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2012, 01:57:26 AM »
  Marco,
Perhaps a larger scale for your next SPAD project my friend. Still not a piece of cake to rig but the larger scale is somewhat easier due to the scale.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette

Thatīs 1/32 already!  ;D Itīs the late Hobbycraft Spad. I extended the wings and rounded them.

Offline pepperman42

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Re: Barraca's SPAD XIII
« Reply #16 on: July 25, 2012, 07:36:09 AM »
...then build a 24th scale ;) A lovely model and your rigging is excellent!!!!!

Steve
I was clean,shaved and sober and I didnt care who knew it.

Offline GAJouette

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Re: Barraca's SPAD XIII
« Reply #17 on: July 25, 2012, 07:58:07 AM »
   Marco,
Well duh,I thought she was the early SPAD XIII from Eduards. Those rounded wings fooled me my friend . One thing beyond any doubt she's still an outstanding SPAD.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
"Umm maybe it's time for new glasses or less medication"
" What Me Worry"

Offline GAJouette

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Re: Barraca's SPAD XIII
« Reply #18 on: July 25, 2012, 08:20:17 AM »
   Tony,
While it's true the Gryphon was the squadron emblem and the black prancing horse was Barraca's person marking . In researching Italian fighters I've never seen a photo of Barraca's SPAD showing the starboard side of the aircraft or the Gryphon. Actually only a few of his actual SPAD XIII at all. But the few photos of other sqadron mates certainly were marked with the Gryphon. So this is way I say the jury is out on whether Barraca's did have the Gryphon on the starboard side. This is not to say it didn't though but only I'm not certain.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
« Last Edit: August 06, 2012, 10:06:34 AM by GAJouette »
" What Me Worry"

Offline Flugzeugwerke

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Re: Barraca's SPAD XIII
« Reply #19 on: July 25, 2012, 08:50:06 AM »
Thanks for the explanation, Gregory. I always love learning about the remaining weird little mysteries that surround these things...

Offline Dal Gavan

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Re: Barraca's SPAD XIII
« Reply #20 on: August 05, 2012, 10:18:24 AM »
G'day, Gents.

Marco, thanks very much for the views of your beautiful model, it's a bit of an inspiration.  That's a scheme I want to do, and I agree with your reasoning about the gryphon (mainly because I really like the heraldry!).  And the tricolour lower wings will add a lot of interest compared to the usual cockades.  Hobbycraft's instructions must either be guess work or, perhaps, another aircraft?  Did Baracca fly another Spad XIII?

As for the rigging, it doesn't look as difficult as the Fe.2b's or the RE 8'sthat have been so well done by the forum members. And I'll keep telling myself that.....

However, I haven't found the decals anywhere on the net.  That and the need to extend the wings (I looked through the Datafile I just bought when I was home last weekend and I'll need to find some more details) mean I have to make a decision:

1.  Do this aircraft as Guynemer's aircraft using the kit markings (does it also need the wings extended?) and I'll look for another kit (while praying that WNW does one) and the FCM decals for Barraca? or

2.  Finish as much as I can (I've already done some work on the floor, fuselage interior and instrument coaming) and then put the kit away while I wait for the decals to turn up?

Gregory, from Marco's model it would appear the gryphon is on the starboard side, not the port?  Or do the photo's you've seen show the horse on the starboard side?

Oh well, back to fixing up the Pfalz.  I'll be home for the next three weeks or so, so I can hopefully get it repaired and start making some more progress.

Cheers.

Dal.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2012, 10:21:59 AM by Dal Gavan »

Offline GAJouette

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Re: Barraca's SPAD XIII
« Reply #21 on: August 06, 2012, 09:54:22 AM »
    Dal,
The Gryphon if present would have been carried on the starboard ( Right) side. Unfortunately I've never found a photo depicting the Gryphon emblem on Barraca's SPAD XIII, but only a few photos of the port side of the aircraft with the Prancing Horse emblem present. All the photos I've seen depicted the port side only never the starboard.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette



PS:Sorry for the confusion my friend apparently I need to paint have my hands painted blue for starboard and red for port again to get it straight .
" What Me Worry"

Offline rowan broadbent

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Re: Barraca's SPAD XIII
« Reply #22 on: August 06, 2012, 02:24:58 PM »
Hello Dal, Gregory et al,

Baracca's markings are well documented for at least one of his SPAD VIIs, but his XIII(s) are not so well photographed. I would be inclined to go with the interpretation of his SPAD XIII markings by the three respected Italian author/historian/Illustrators, Roberto Gentilli, Paolo Varriale and Antonio Iozzi in their book on the Italian Aces, published by Schiffer. In this book they illustrate Baracca's SPAD XIII serial S2445 and note that the serial is note known for certain. If the serial IS correct, S2445 was delivered to the 91a squadriglia with four others on 14 February 1918.

The presence of the Cavalino Rampante on the port side of a SPAD XIII flown by Baracca is documented in photographs, but the presence of the Squadriglia's rampant Griffin on the other side is a little open to conjecture. For the SPAD VIIs flown by him, clear photographic evidence exists of the gryphon/griffin being present on the starboard side and the prancing horse on the port. The squadron insignia was introduced during April 1918 and both the SPAD types, VII and XIII were flown by the 91a at the this time, so it is reasonable to suppose that Baracca's XIII carried the horse to port and the Gryphon to starboard.

Regarding the location and presence of roundels, there were certainly none above the wings but the underside is not known for certain. It seems most likely that the red port, starboard green flag colours were worn (note that the centre section was generally left in the standard underside finish and not painted white in MOST cases). The Tail stripes are recorded as (front to back), green white red. It seems possible or even probable that the Bleriot-produced SPAD XIIIs (like S2445) were delivered without national markings applied and these were applied locally - probably at the Aircraft Park. In the case of Baracca's XIII, the red outer ring on the fuselage was painted in the colour order red (outer), white and green (inner) to make it stand out against the camouflaged fuselage.

In conclusion, SPAD XIII 2445 was returned to an aviation park on 21st May and Baracca was killed in a SPAD VII S5382 on 19th June.

All the above is a precis of information contained in the Aces book - it is expensive to buy, but well worth it if you have an interest in the Italian Front airwar. Much of the information is also contained in smaller (and cheaper...)  Osprey Italian Aces volume by Paolo Varriale, also highly recommended.

 
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Offline Dal Gavan

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Re: Barraca's SPAD XIII
« Reply #23 on: August 12, 2012, 11:41:55 AM »
G'day, Gents.

Gregory, no need to apologise, old mate, I think we've all had that same problem.  With embarrassing consequences, especially if you're on parade and are "the only one to turn the right way".... :-[

Rowan, thanks so much for the detailed info and advice on the books.  I have found Italian Aces of World War I and Their Aircraft at a reasonable price, $32.50 from Tiber Books in the US.  Even with postage it's less than $50, opposed to $189 being asked by an Australian vendor.  I haven't developed a particular interest in Italian aces of WWI, but I only need the slightest excuse to spend money on books!

I haven't totally stopped on this kit, these small sub-assemblies are easy to take on trips and give me something to do in the hotel.

Cheers.

Dal.

Offline andonio64

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Re: Barraca's SPAD XIII
« Reply #24 on: August 12, 2012, 10:58:09 PM »
Dear Dal,
I did not spot your thread earlier, I could have tried to help, as far as possible, but I see most of our mates have provided you with correct information.
First of all take my compliments for your work, it is really fantastic. Then (aleays as far as I know) I only have the doubt about the Gryphon on the starboard side... as some of our friends have said there is no evidence about it on Baracca's (one "r" and two "c"s :-) ) XIII.
Personally I would have chosen the horse on both sides because not everybody wore the squadriglia insignia on their planes and normally the personal signs were considered more distinctive, but in this case your choice is as valid as mine, and it is likely for the reasons reported by Rowan.
Again bravo for your work!
Antonio

Offline Dal Gavan

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Re: Baracca's SPAD XIII
« Reply #25 on: August 13, 2012, 06:04:07 PM »
G'day, Andonio.

Thanks for the compliment and your thoughts.  Felipe is re-releasing the decals used by Marco and I've found an article that describes a way to extend and reshape the wings, so I'll keep fiddling with the kit.

And I've corrected the spelling of Baracca's name, too.   :)

Cheers,

Dal.

Offline Dal Gavan

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Re: Barraca's SPAD XIII
« Reply #26 on: October 06, 2012, 05:38:23 PM »
G'day.

I managed to acquire Italian Aces of WWI and their Aircraft and their Aircraft (thanks for the recommendation!) and it's interesting that the plate (71) of Baracca's S2445also shows it with the later style of wing.  Did the Italians paint out the upper wing roundels or did the factory just leave them off, I wonder?

Anyway, I'm probably going to get the Roden Spad VII and do that as Baracca's (there's a photo that shows the gryphon on the port fuselage of one Spad VII) and do this Spad XIII as a French aircraft, when Felipe re-releases his FCM sheet.

Cheers.

Dal.

Offline fullcolored

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Re: Barraca's SPAD XIII
« Reply #27 on: October 07, 2012, 09:26:53 PM »
Dear All,

I would like to add some extra information about the Baracca's Horse colour.
In the article show in this link http://www.arsm.it/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=100:prova-il-qcavallino-rampanteq-di-francesco-baracca&catid=50:mezzi-terrestri&Itemid=66, the author talk about the fact that the horse was probably painted in red. The other members whore the black as sign of condolences when Baraccas felt in combat.
I'm sorry but the article is in Italian.
There are few evidences about that, more: the griffon in our Air Force show the Griffon in red, and the F16 special colour of X gruppo in which the legacy of the Squadriglia degli Assi is still alive, whore the red colours both Griffon and Horse.
For more information I can contact the former commander , who celebrates his 1000 hours flying the F16, and can ask more information about.
For my part , the Spad that I'm plannig to build , will show the red horse and griffon.
In any case I salute the splendid work shown in this tread , Grazie Mille

Offline rlrimell

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Re: Barraca's SPAD XIII
« Reply #28 on: October 08, 2012, 01:54:25 AM »
Hi Guys,

Been following this thread with interest.  According to Gregory Alegi the prancing horse was never red-only black. In his new DF, Italian Spads at War!, co-authored with Paolo Varriale, and published later this month, the colours and markings of many  Italian Spad aces are described. Ronny Bar has produced some stunning new profiles of VII and XIII types to support the narrative; a full survey of surviving Italian Spads is also featured. Hopefully the book will clear up some of the points raised.

Happy modelling!


Ray R.

Offline fullcolored

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Re: Barraca's SPAD XIII
« Reply #29 on: October 08, 2012, 02:25:01 AM »
I'm really courious to see what is stated in that book.

But I'm still sure that the horse is red ... not black

see here the legacy http://www.flickr.com/photos/il_rinforzino_corner/3910177990/