VAT, etc.

[Michael Scarborough]

Re: VAT, etc: My heart goes out to all of you that have to deal with VAT. In my ill-spent youth, I worked in Europe quite a bit and was amazed at how much more Europeans paid for taxes, postage, phone, calls, gasoline, etc. etc. etc. customs fees on things like WnW kits, than we ever did or do here in the USA. It still makes me mad when my fellow Americans whine about taxes, the cost of gas, etc.

The other side of the coin is that when I worked in Germany, I had fantastic health care and never paid a pfennig for it. Don't get me started on that subject.

I DO NOT want to get into a political discussion...just want to say to your boys that I commiserate with the pain of VAT, etc etc etc.

Cheers from the New World (which is definitely showing signs of aging)
Michael

[skeeterbuck]

Michael, It's not the taxes I mind paying, It's what the money is wasted on that gets me  !

[ALBATROS1234]

its just a matter of which side of the face you want to get slapped on. yes in europe,the taxes are higher,they have vat etc. but like you mentioned every other civilized nation in the world has health care for its people. here in the usa i have been without help care for 13 years. not so bad when youre a young man but when you get my age you really need health care. i am gambling that i wont get sick. i cant afford the major expense of health care so i dont get checkups etc,cant afford to drop hundreds of dollars to get the tests i need.my mother has health care so when she got her yearly physical this year they found a lump in her breast. it may have just saved her life as they caught it very early and she was able to get fantastic treatment. so i dont feel sorry for our mates over seas they get alot for those extra taxes and such,or so it seems to me. free healthcare is a huge advantage and in my opinion,the right of every human. of course if i say these things out loud i am called a commie and/or  obama lover. i am neither.

[radio]

I say only in Germany about goes 1/3 of money of one get a single for his job to state or other systems. Like my son he is baker and have about 2000.-€. There is no living cost, car, rent or insurece at that.
Cheers
Martin

[ALBATROS1234]

i dont understand what you mean martin?are you meaning to say your son pays 2000 euro for tax each year. this is 1/3 of his income?

[Des]

I think what he is saying is that a third of the money they earn goes to taxes and other things, Martin will correct me if I'm wrong.

Des.

[ALBATROS1234]

thats what we pay here,right at 1/3 of our paycheck is taken away before we get it. it goes to state and federal income tax,plus social security,workmans compensation etc. i assumed that elsewhere in the world their rate was closer to 50% but thats why they get health care etc. i just think its messed up that the the usa has always bragged about being a rich country with a vibrant economy and they cant even let us have healthcare. they got this obama care crap which they charge you for cept if you cant afford it they take a penalty from your taxes whether you use it or not.

isnt education provided in europe and elsewhere? i may be wrong but i think i heard this somewhere. i am bogged down with student loans of $30,000 and i had to drop out before i finished because they denied me financial aid over a technicality. so i am paying back a useless loan that gave me no career help at all .

[ALBATROS1234]

point is capitalism has major flaws just like every other economic system. you get guys calling the president a communist because he was trying to get healthcare to more people and the extremist right wing guys say hes raising taxes. i havent seen evidence of that but those same guys go on about the rich corporations sticking it to us little guys unfairly. but thats what capitalism is right? buyer beware. a company can charge whatever it wants if you need it you are forced to pay like medicine.they have the same drugs in canada made by the same companies selling for half the price.

my point capitalism and socialism both have good and bad. its up to the individual to decide what kinda crap he wants to deal with an try to move. problem is i have wanted to move obroad for many years and most places dont allows immigration. only our stupid asses.

[radio]

As a worker he become about 2000.-€ payment per month. 1/3 goes away to state and other fix like  health insurance contribution, unemployment insurance and pension insurance.
Then come the other for money for what you need to live.
Cheers
Martin

[stefanbuss]

Yes, i hate "my VAT" and everything that comes with it. The low USD has effectively stopped me from buying any more WNW kits, as even the single seaters come near the mark where I have to pay an extra fee on top of VAT (it was possible to buy two single seaters or one of the bombers without that extra fee in happier times)...

And - to top that - health care is not entirely for free for eveyone. If you are a civil servant (or, like me, military personnel), you have to have a seperate health insurance for your family.

Michael: thank you very much for your statement.

S.

[radio]

Yes Stefan I have the same probleme.
Cheers
Martin

[ALBATROS1234]

i guess its bad all over,we dont have the vat but we pay 1/3 of our earnings and have no health care without paying $400-$500 per month. when you are young it makes no sense because if i took that from my $2000 per month net earnings i cannot buy any models or eat good food. if i want ham sandwichs and peanut butter each day with no money for hobbies than i can get health care.problem is i am getting old so i will be forced to do something eventually.sad times around the world.i think part of the problem is in the usa doctors study medicine to get rich not to help people.this is another fault with capitalist economy.they charge crazy prices for things. once 25 years ago when the economy was good and things much cheaper i hurt myself at work.not too bad but a piece of lumber struck my chin and my boss made me goto the emergency room to be checked out. they brought me a ziplock bag with ice. i looked at the bill $14 for a 5 cent ziploc with 2 cents of ice. these prices add up to $1200 to get looked at,get basic x-ray ,ice pack and 30 minutes time. but if you want to be healthy you must pay. i say this is wrong but it is the way its always been done here and the guys getting rich have the money to make sure it stays this way.

[Pgtaylorart]

I feel your pain with the medical bills, Scott. My wife has chronic pancreatitis and even though we have good medical cover at my job it is still costing us thousands of dollars a year. I don't know which is worse, paying high VAT and other fees and taxes up front but getting reasonable medical care, or not paying all those fees up front and having to pay through the nose for treatment when you need it. They either get you coming or they get you going, but they're gonna get you.

George

[ALBATROS1234]

and i do understand that doctors have ridiculously high malpractice insurance because of all the suit happy bottom feeders but they still make 3 to 4 times the salary as doctors in other civilized nations of the world. personally i would rather have a doctor that makes a reasonably comfortable living and is a doctor because he wants to cure and help the sick. i worked in a hospital for 5 years,many doctors have a sense of supremity and /or god complex . they think they are always right and every one else is stupid and many treat their wives horribly. i grew up with a guy who became a radiologist. he always talked about how much money he was going to ake. i saw the gradual transformation from a nice guy to an a-hole. he would talk down to his girfriend as if she were a child. this was oinly a year after he finished residency. i grew to dislike him and no longer keep in touch. i am sure there are good people who became doctors for the right reasons in the u.s. but they are the minority. many docs lobby washington to keep things as is for their own personal gain. they talk about how we dont want the horrors of free healthcare like canada or europe. i have met people from canada and asked. they dont seem to have a problem getting good care and the same drugs by the same companies cost less than half there. i dont get it.

[Des]

Australian health care is about the same as Canada, as a worker we pay a 2% levy towards the Government medicare, as a pensioner we pay nothing. I have been a pensioner since 2002 and in that time have payed zero for health care. Even when I was working back in 1997 I had a massive heart attack, was rushed to hospital by ambulance and spent 10 days in ICU, they then transferred me to sydney, a two and a half hour drive, by ambulance then spent another 10 days in ICU before they operated, they did 6 bypasses. Another 5 days in hospital after the operation before going home, total cost to me = zero, it was all covered by medicare.

I read a lot of horror stories about people in the states that just die because they cannot afford health care, it is a tragic situation really. I have had the one doctor for over 30 years, he is a very kind and compassionate man and is not in the business for money, he genuinely cares about his patients and is always going to lectures to learn the latest techniques. Even a trip to my local GP costs nothing and my medications are all free.

My heart goes out to you Scott, just wish there was something that we could do but our hands are tied, too many money hungry people out there.

Des.