Nieuport 17 into 16 or 11?

[ALBATROS1234]

for sure. post a photo and i can say how i would aproach it. it was easier than i expected to cast parts. my first cast i took several things like seats and other various bits and stuck em in lumps of clay, built a lego box and poured silicone on. a simple 1 part mold. the 1st pour had some voids where the resin didnt reach cuz i just poured it in. i learned to kinda burp the 1 part molds by squishing and deforming the shape and trapped air bubbles out. also i have a brass rod witha rounded off head to coax bubbles from corners and such. i still had probs getting tiny details to come out so i got a pressure pot and solved the problem. its fun casting and a great tool to have at your disposal.

[WarrenD]

OK Squiffy, ALBATROS1234, Procopius, Bo, Rob, and others who may have an interest:

- First, apologies for being so tardy with this. I plead "Christmas Holiday Busy-ness" along with this conversion set wasn't where I thought it was in the man cave/closet*. Better late than never I suppose.

- The set, according to the instructions, is for the old ESCI Nie.17, but I'm sure it will work with the ancient Revell kit, which can be had on evil-bay for a song or not much more. To be truthful, one could also utilize an Eduard "Weekend Edition" Nie.17 if one wanted to. There are certainly advantages to that.

- The old Revell/ESCI kit suffered from an incorrect wing angle, and the instructions advise you to correct that. Up to each individual I say, your madness may vary.

- This is some work, naturally, but the Toko kit suffers from some inaccuracies as well, so you've got work cut our for you either way. As I said, to each his own.















The recommended parts list is dated, for certain, however, there are alternatives out there. The fuselage is solid from the partition behind the seat on back.

ALBATROS1234, I'd appreciate your advice on how best to replicate this in terms of how to mold it, etc.

Warren

[ALBATROS1234]

let me think on it a day, this could be a bit tricky being the way it is. definately a 2 or 3 part mold. i dug out my toko nie 11 and debated doing some mods and casting it. not for me as i generally stay away from 1/72 but for my friends here.

[WarrenD]

Yeah, I thought that one would be kinda tricky myself. As for me, I cannot think of how I can do this with a two part mold. Seems to me I'd have to have a two part mold with a third part as some kind of plug. Too bad Mr. Crofoot is not here to advise us.

Thanks for thinking on it. I'd like to do it if possible.

Warren

[Old Man]

That fuselage would be a very simple scratch-build.

Two sides and a bottom cut to pattern from sheet thin sheet, top pieces from thicker sheet sanded to a rounded form, thin sheet bent over the cockpit and pierced for the opening. Round disc on the nose for a guide, cheekpieces cut to triangles from thick sheet and shaped to section once attached to the model. An Eduard N.17 would provide a proper cowling as well as the needed wing and tail surfaces and such.

[WarrenD]

Old man, it's simple for those that scratch-build.    I can't speak for Squiffy, but I'm not up to that yet.

Warren

[Old Man]

It would be an extremely simple one to start on, though, Sir. Shapes do not come much easier than this. I strongly suspect it would be easier and simpler just to make the new fuselage, rather than do the major work on the nose needed to convert an N.17 kit fuselage.

When you alter the sweep of the wings, a bit of tweaking would be needed to get the ribs properly aligned with the line of flight, rather than converging a bit on the center.

Either way, doing this would be a fair amount of work, but it does seem doable, and not so much difficult as laborious. I had never seriously considered it before, but now....

[WarrenD]

Yep, I had two Revell kits in stages of construction (wings sanded down, new rib tapes applied, etc.) when Eduard finally came out with their Nie.17, so they got put in a box on the shelf.    The dihedral issue is one that each individual is going to have to decided for themselves if they want to deal with it or not.

Converting an Eduard Nie.17 would be possible, and I only suggested it for those that might want to go that route.

I'd still like to see about the possibility of recreating this fuselage in resin. I think it would be possible to adapt the Eduard wings and some other bits and pieces from the kit to this.

Warren

[ALBATROS1234]

it could be done in a 2 piece theorhetically. you could blank off the cockpit opening with a piece of styrene ca glued in the hole. it should be slightly recessed to preserve the shape of the cockpit opening. next it could be done 2 ways. either double stick tape on a flat surface then stand the fuselage on its nose. you want to keep silicone from running into the nose opening so so sulphur free modelling clay made into skinny sausages around the circumference. try to make this as small as possible. next you need to add the keys. which are alignment helpers. i would use a domed type nut stuck on the double stick tape in 3 to 5 locations surrounding the fuselage which is standing on its nose. or you could make a sort of platform rolled out of the same type clay bout 1/4" or a tad better thick. you would in this case imbed the fuselage standing on its nose as described before. not too deep. just deep enuff to hold it up and prevent the before mentioned leakage. in this case you would key it by useing the blunt end of an exacto style knife to make indentations in your clay base. from here on its the same. you make 4 walls surrounding the fuselage leaving an inch on all sides. some use legos for this, some use mdf or even thick styrene sheet. whatever the case it has to leave adequate space to give some meat to the mold.if you use the double stick tape platform you will have to seal the outer base of you enclosure walls with clay sausages again or else silicone rubber will sneak out along the bottom. if you use a clay base you will square cut away the excess and build your wall from the sub surface not on top the clay platform . this should seal against leaks. i use micro mark mold release it works great, but some people use mineral spirits with vaseline as a mold release. anyway use a large paintbrush to spread mold release on the walls,base, and fuselage and let dry well. next you mix silicone as directed and pour it in. when dry this will be your first part.
   when this is dry you flip the mold over. remove the clay platform or tape platform including the clay sealer sausages you used to keep the nose sealed up.i use legos so at this time you extend the wall upward to make an enclosure for part 2. apply a healthy dose of mold release,let dry and then pour part 2. if youve done it right you end up with a plug attached to a block which is keyed to align with the lower half of the mold. you would pour resin in and then insert part 2 of the mold. the plug part  squishes out the excess. i usually use a blunt rod and flash light and look to see if any bubbles have got themselves in a corner where they love to form then just gently work/slide part 2 of the mold into the cavity.
 once cured this will leave you a rim where the sausages sealed the fuselage that will have to be sanded off or a lip the width of how deep you imbedded the nose if you stuck it in a clay platform. you get me?
   the only other way i can think is do a variation of above by making a 3 part mold having a side to side portion and similar nose plug. done this way you would eliminate the nose rim to be sanded but it would be more work on the mold making end. you have to decide if the sanding of the ring from the nose is easier or adding another step to the mold. whichever takes less time and effort being the way of choice. if a 3 part mold is done you would have to use some rubber bands and styrene or other 1/8" board  rubber banded to the outer surface of the mold to keep the molds shape. careful not to band to tight it will deform the shape of the finished casting.

  i hope this is clearly stated,if not feel free to ask questions.

[WarrenD]

Yep, sounds pretty clear to me. Now, to just do it.   Maybe I'll have time in the coming year.

Warren

[Rob Hart]

There may be some useful info here:

http://www.wwi-models.org/misc/FrenchWW1/Nieuport/nie1772.html

and here:

http://www.wwi-models.org/misc/FrenchWW1/Nieuport/nie_ref.html

[WarrenD]

Thanks for reminding me/us of those Rob, There is a lot of great information there. I think I can remember when Matt created those pages.
It was a happier, more innocent age. 

Of course, and sadly, there's no need to watch for anything coming from Rosemont.    I sure wish we knew where the masters and molds were for so many of the products Barry carried.

Warren

[uncletony]

You might try pleading your case to Richard @ Aviattic .... He's got a stable of very talented guys put together... If you could demonstrate a demand... Who knows

[WarrenD]

Thanks Bo! Richard sure is a great guy, but I'm not sure there is a demand except for us few, weird 1/72nd scale Nieuport freaks.    I don't know if there are enough of us to justify him setting up a master.
FWIW, I figure if he wants to reproduce anything in 1/72nd that Barry carried at Rosemont, he'd get more mileage out of the Fokker F.I correction set. (I believe I have the remains of one set left that I've put back for a rainy day.)

Warren

[ALBATROS1234]

i have a toko 11 that cajun from this forum said he wanted a couple months ago then disappeared. i wonder if i should just cast this when i get a chance and then offer it at cost to a few forum members. basically this is what hr models did. they cast other peoples parts in resin and then sold them as their own kit. anyone whos ever gotten one of their 1/48 resin kits knows this to be true. surprised they never got sued.