3D printed Palmer Tires

[Rookie]

I would like to ask fellow forumites that master the craft of 3D-printing for help.

For my project of the Handley Page V/1500 I need to make 4 wheels with Palmer Cord tires, having an outer diameter 46,8 mm. The rims with covering (no spokes shown) and tires I could probably make myself, but the raised lettering “PALMER CORD AERO TYRE 1500 X 300” would be very hard to reproduce. This lettering really looks "layed on".

Anyone who can help in any way (I'm open to other options as well) please PM me.

Willem

[Edo]

hey Willelm,
for my Bleriot project, I tried to replicate the “ANZANI” logo on the engine as per reference pic. But aside for the difficulties to write ‘in circle’ (hope it is enough to understand what I mean, but can’t find any better way to describe it...) due to my lack of expertise in CAD drawing, the 0,05mm precision of my 3d printer was not enough to make the lettering anyway scale consistent. Sooo, sorry to say I cannot help, but I fear that for the project you are involved in, a much more precision is needed.... may be even one that it is not available to consumer printer.
good luck, anyway! keep us posted as it is a very interesting subject!
ciao
edo

[Beto]

I can easily model them for you (free of charge) if you provide the info, but as Edo said, that size of letters exceeds the capabilities of most home printers. But you can try (at your own risk)  sending them to Shapeways or other professional 3d printing service. Please PM me if you are interested.

[Bughunter]

I don't know, how they realized this, but Gaspatch is able to do such wheels even in 1/48!
This seems to be a rendering, but I have them in real and they looks great.


Cheers,
Frank

[Rookie]

Thanks for your comments Edo, Beto and Frank.

As for the dimensions of the lettering, in 1/32 they are 3 mm high and they are lifted approximately 0.5mm.

@ Edo

I have no knowledge of 3d printing at all, but it sounds logical what you say about the limitations in accuracy of consumer printers. And I can imagine it is hard to model the lettering in an arched form.

@ Frank

I’ve seen these and they look great! I asked Costas Patsaros of GasPatch models, but unfortunately he does not provide the service for custom requests.

@ Beto

Thank you for your kind offer to model them for me.

However…

Taking another look at some photographs, I realize that in scale, the lettering wouldn’t be raised that much.




So, as printing the lettering in 3d is almost impossible to do, would applying thick decals be an option?

Thoughts and suggestions are welcomed..
Willem

[Bughunter]

Nice reference picture!

I don't know where to find such thick decals, but I have another idea.

Masks would be nice, and then apply some coats with white primer until you reached the expected thickness.
The "only" problem is, that the letters are too small to for my cutting plotter because of the drag knife.

There is a new company in Belgium doing very small masks. I'm not sure, but I guess he uses a laser. Link to homepage in review.
https://www.themodellingnews.com/2021/10/hands-on-review-high-definition-stencil.html
You can ask, may be he can cut masks for you.

May be you can also draw such mask as vector graphic yourself (the great open source drawing program Inkscape http://www.inkscape.org, which I use for my cutter, would be able to do this. Or Scribus too, with drawing along path) and find a local laser graving shop or a Fablab Maker community to let this lasered into Tamiya masking tape.

Cheers,
Frank

[PJ Fisher]

In case it helps, here's a 1914 magazine advertisement from Palmer, showing what their lettering looked like then for standard-size planes.  I remember purchasing a sheet of 1/72-scale Palmer Tyre decals directly from someone on the old WWI Modeling page.  Bob Pearson maybe?  Don't know if he's still around, but I think it was him.  But sounds like the huge Handley Page tires would look different.

[Stuart Malone]

The tires, especially with a covered wheel, should be easily done on a 4K sla resin printer.  They typically have an XY resolution in the 20 to 30 micron range and a Z resolution of 10.  I've been contemplating buying one, but I haven't taken the time to sit down and learn a 3d CAD package yet.  Unfortunately, there isn't much out there in the form of .stl files for accessories pertaining to our shared interests.

Stuart

[Rookie]

Thanks for contributions PJ, Stuart and Frank.

@ PJ:
Thanks for posting the add. I found a couple of them myself, but this is a welcome addition.

@ Stuart:

I think I can make the wheels (the rims and the hubs) fairly easy from styrene. The tire diameter in 1/32 is about 8 mm and I can styrene rod for that, or this:

https://www.polymax.co.uk/rubber-cords/epdm-rubber-cord/epdm-rubber-cord

The wheel covering could be made from conical shaped styrene sheet.

@ Frank

I hadn’t thought of-masking for the lettering, that could work very well.

But, what if…

Do you think it could work the other way around? I mean, cutting the lettering in the masking material, stick the letters to the tire and remove the surrounding masking tape?

I have never used masking, and I don’t know what materials could be used in a plotter/cutter, but normally one would make sure the masking tape can be easily removed of course. But in my case, the whole meaning is to keep it on, like a decal.

Maybe this is a ridiculous idea, but I’d like to hear your (and everyone else’s) thoughts.

I have a vector based drawing program called 'FrontDesigner'. I can import .emf files in it and export to HPGL machine files. I know my way around it pretty well, I used it to design front panels for analog synthesizer modules.

Willem

[Bughunter]

I don't think, that this will work with masking tape.
That tapes is easy to cut, but not strong in adhesion as it is intended to be removed. Try this with a small piece of the yellow Tamiya tape, you can easily rotate this on a surface. So I have also doubts in long term.
To paint it with primer works, as I do this also for rib tapes.

For cutting I need only a SVG (Scaleable Vector Graphics, which is a internet standard), but I can't cut 3mm letters (too small). That is the native Inkscape file format. That's why I suggest a laser cutter or engraver.

Cheers,
Frank

[Rookie]

O.k. Frank, thanks for the explanation.

I value you expert opinion, so I'll go in the direction you point in.

 

Willem

[IanB]

Decals for Palmer Cord Aero Tyres are commercially available from LF Models. I used them on my 1:72 FE8 build. One word of warning - handle them VERY GENTLY or the decal will rub off before you can apply it!

https://www.flickr.com/photos/11262788@N02/50165868091/in/album-72157713304817466/

Ian

[Bughunter]

There are a lot of decals available, also Eduard provides this in 1/48.
But here Willem wants to do a huge bird in 1/32, so the wheels are big and the letters too! For a letter height of 3mm the letters should be raised, as on real wheels. That cannot be provided by a decal.

Cheers,
Frank

[KiwiZac]

That cannot be provided by a decal.

Unless some enterprising individual created 3D decals for them...(just an idea - I'm not hinting at any inside knowledge!)

[Rookie]

@Ian:

Thanks for the tip. I’ve taken a look at these decals, but as Frank says, they would not look proportionally right. They are to flat, and the lettering on 1/32 scale would have to look raised.

Also, the numbers for the dimensions, and the word “Tyre” is missing.

@Zac:

I’ve seen a thread here using or reviewing 3d printed instrument panels, but of course I can’t find that specific thread any more. I don’t know the name of the company who makes them, nor do I know if they do custom work, and, if they to, what the cost would be.

So, I will follow Frank's lead and I am currently working on the lettering to design masks.

There are a lot of parameters to play with in this software and it is started to look like something already.





The output files are restricted to .bmp .jpg .emf and .HPGL machine file formats.

As consumer printers do not have the ability to cut masks for letters as small as 3mm, I have yet to find a service that can use any of these formats to cut masks.

So, the search continues…

Willem