Author Topic: 1/72 Friedrichshafen FF.49C (Read 6403 times)

torbiorn · « **on:** October 08, 2021, 05:00:21 AM »

Hello,
Not sure what the rules say about posting the same-ish build log in two fora, but I’m curious to see the response of different crowds. Someone do stop me if this behaviour is frowned upon.

I guess it is known to this crowd, but the Friedrichshafen FF.49 was essentially an FF.33 with a stronger engine and strengthened structure, developed late in the war. About 240 were built by Friedrichshafen and, under license, Sablatnig. After the armistice several other nations acquired surplus machines. Sweden bought 4, Finland five, Denmark at least 7 and Norway four for civilian use. I’ll be building one of the Sablatnig-built Swedish machines.

As you can see on this example below the FF49 looks pretty much like you expect your typical float plane to look like, which I take as a testimony to its design.

The model will be built from strip and sheet styrene and maybe one or two items from the spares box.

I made a start. Not finding any references whatever for the internals, I made the dubious decision to imitate someone building a kit:

Some elements I copied from Lukgraph’s FF33, but I suspect they - lacking sources too? - largely copied the H-B W.29.

This may be a dud start - I just read that the plane was built up by steel tubes as opposed to the wooden frames of the earlier FF33. The fuel tank and chair I should be able to keep at least... Although it makes me wonder why the Danish replica claiming to be completely accurate is being built using wooden frames. Grrr 😣
https://tekniskmuseum.dk/event/aabent-vaerksted-2018-04-05/2018-04-05/

Maybe the not the entire plane was made by steel tubes? Looking at this and other images, there is a shadow along the aft side that suggests a steel tube, starting in the frame separating the pilot and observer, but forward it looks very much like earlier planes. Possibly I can keep quite a bit of my first try by adding this tubular longeron to the observer’s side and keeping the wood frames up front?

In any case, since even the Danish museum replica-makers are obviously not sure about the construction, there is some inevitable guesswork ahead.

RAGIII · « **Reply #1 on:** October 08, 2021, 07:59:28 AM »

Looks like a great start to a unique Model! As for posring in Multiple Venues I don't think there is Any Issue At all. I do it MYself and have never had an issue

RAGIII

lcarroll · « **Reply #2 on:** October 08, 2021, 11:44:27 AM »

I certainly don't see any problems with publishing on several Forums from a moderation point of view, as long as comments from them are not inter mixed and inputs and feedback remain independent and not cross referenced. We've had many Members do this and to date there's never been an issue.
Cheers,
Lance

Skyhook · « **Reply #3 on:** October 08, 2021, 05:17:15 PM »

This looks fantastic! I will be following this one closely, especially regarding the importance of the FF 49 in early Finnish air force. Unfortunately there´s very little technical info on the plane type in Finnish archives. It was very early days and the pilots and mechanics were well versed on the type in Germany, so it was probably not necessary to have any technical manuals etc for the FF planes. I have quite a mny pics of the 49B and C in finnish service, so if there´s any "dead angles", I might be able to help here and there

cheers, Skyhook

William Adair · « **Reply #4 on:** October 08, 2021, 07:54:06 PM »

Gorgeous looking aircraft and a very fine start too. Looking forward to watching it progress!

PrzemoL · « **Reply #5 on:** October 08, 2021, 09:59:36 PM »

Great to see you tackle this project.

You may be interested in my old build of FF.49 from Top Gun kit.
https://forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com/index.php?topic=2406.0
If the photos do not show up, let me know, I can still share them.

Of course the interior in my model is the educated guess...

But I have a question, where did you find the info about the steel structure? I have never come across it.

torbiorn · « **Reply #6 on:** October 09, 2021, 01:50:35 AM »

Excellent, then I’ll go ahead.

Quote from: Skyhook on October 08, 2021, 05:17:15 PM

This looks fantastic! I will be following this one closely, especially regarding the importance of the FF 49 in early Finnish air force. Unfortunately there´s very little technical info on the plane type in Finnish archives. It was very early days and the pilots and mechanics were well versed on the type in Germany, so it was probably not necessary to have any technical manuals etc for the FF planes. I have quite a mny pics of the 49B and C in finnish service, so if there´s any "dead angles", I might be able to help here and there

cheers, Skyhook

I found very little in the Swedish sources as well, and fewer photos than for many other contemporary types. I have not seen many Finnish images and I’d be happy to see them.

Quote from: PrzemoL on October 08, 2021, 09:59:36 PM

Great to see you tackle this project.

You may be interested in my old build of FF.49 from Top Gun kit.
https://forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com/index.php?topic=2406.0
If the photos do not show up, let me know, I can still share them.

Of course the interior in my model is the educated guess...

But I have a question, where did you find the info about the steel structure? I have never come across it.

Thank you for that, it’ll be useful. The images do show up, with the photobucket stamp but that’s ok.

I see you did add the longeron halfway up the fuselage in observer’s pit. I think I will rebuild mine to include it.

The steel tube reference I have only seen in one location - Swedish wikipedia. I’ll see if it can be deduced where it came from, but it seems deliberate enough since the FF33 page mentions wooden frame construction.

lone modeller · « **Reply #7 on:** October 09, 2021, 01:52:59 AM »

That looks to me as though you are off to a very fine start. An unusual type and no kit so it is an ideal subject for a scratch build. I will follow with interest.

Stephen.

RichieW · « **Reply #8 on:** October 09, 2021, 06:51:46 PM »

I'm following this with interest, does the tubular metal framework question need to be a problem? I have a similar problem with my BE2c where some of the struts were metal. This wasn't apparent from the Windsock Datafile. I'm choosing to ignore it, plod on when I can do better research next time.

Looking forward to seeing the next update!

Richie

torbiorn · « **Reply #9 on:** October 09, 2021, 07:48:36 PM »

Quote from: lone modeller on October 09, 2021, 01:52:59 AM

That looks to me as though you are off to a very fine start. An unusual type and no kit so it is an ideal subject for a scratch build. I will follow with interest.

Stephen.

Welcome and thanks. Non-existance of a [good, non-expensive] kit is a sort of requirement for me. To the degree I’ve been miffed when someone issues a kit of something I wanted to scratch.

Quote from: RichieW on October 09, 2021, 06:51:46 PM

I'm following this with interest, does the tubular metal framework question need to be a problem? I have a similar problem with my BE2c where some of the struts were metal. This wasn't apparent from the Windsock Datafile. I'm choosing to ignore it, plod on when I can do better research next time.

Looking forward to seeing the next update!

Richie

No, not per se - I just don’t know what it looked like. But I think I will just proceed with what I have and pretend that the cockpit was still framed in wood. I will never find out from the following reason:

In late 1918 Sweden bought two surplus FF.49C. They liked them and wanted to buy more. At this point a nosy British delegation pointed out that this violated the treaty of Versailles, forbidding Germany to export military equipment. Although the Swedes didn’t care for the treaty and happily supplied their air forces with German planes and material during most of the 20s (only switching towards Britain and the US in the 30s), I guess this was too much in the spotlight. Instead they bought two Sablatnig-built planes that had been converted to civilian use - and converted them back. The conversion consisted essentially of rebuilding the cockpit. They probably used the two first as a guide, but had no issues with making changes or improvements, so, long story short, having no idea how the cockpits may have looked I have now clear conscience to design it myself.

Skyhook · « **Reply #10 on:** October 10, 2021, 05:16:49 AM »

hi!!! Here´s a few pics of FF49C in Finnish Air Force in 1918-1923. I tried to pick some that show good details... The Finnish FFs were in the original German guise for most of the service with finnish insignia and numbers added. Later on the paintwork was changed after repairs and re-coverings. Most of the photos originate from the archives of both Finnish Aviation Museum and Finnish Air Force Museum. I have several more if you need them... and just ask if you want to know more about the actual planes, places and events regarding the photos

cheers, Skyhook

]/url] Close up of the Benz engine on a FF49

[url=http://[url=https://flic.kr/p/2myTRHB]

][url=https://flic.kr/p/2myTRHB] The port side front

] A good view of the generator for the radio equipment

][ Note the filler cap behind the observers cockpit

] Note how the lozenges of the naval fabric were not matched when sewn in place.

torbiorn · « **Reply #11 on:** October 11, 2021, 04:36:15 AM »

Wonderful photos. It’d be fun to do a plane with shabby lozenge, but people seeing the model would think it is the modeller wjo made a shoddy job. Many thanks, they are helpful. Especially the crashed one showing the filler cap (not on my drawings nor do I have a photo showing this area clearly) and serrated structure of the decking, and the one with the radio generator. The Swedish planes used a similar or identical setup, but this is the first time I saw a clear photo. Does Finland have a digital archive of sorts, in the same way as Sweden&Norway (digitalmuseum.se /no)?

—-
I have made a little progress. I usually build the whole thing mentally before I start, to find out whether there are any showstoppers. The most tricky part I came up with is the nose:

As you can see the Swedish plane had no spinner and the open annulus between the panels and that backing plate for the prop is fully visible. It will be tricky to make that both perfectly round and razor thin - especially since I opted to make a built-up fuselage rather than moulding. I settled for making the circle first and sanding down later on. I found a tube of hard plastic of correct diameter and filed it down: the panels will be glued directly to its outer surface and then sanded down from inside and out.

I should probably continue with the engine to make sure it fits *before* I close this up.

RAGIII · « **Reply #12 on:** October 12, 2021, 02:34:06 AM »

Excellent progress. Your wood interior looks Great. Nice work on the round section.
RAGIII

RichieW · « **Reply #13 on:** October 12, 2021, 04:38:33 AM »

Superb work again. Good planning, I hope I get to the point where I can mentally complete a build before wading in. Very much looking forward to the next step.

Richie

lone modeller · « **Reply #14 on:** October 12, 2021, 04:57:05 AM »

Yes mentally building something is in my experience, an important step as it helps to avoid the worst of the problems. The fuselage is very well made indeed.

Stephen.