Author Topic: A couple of 1:72 Felixstowes  (Read 6409 times)

Offline Bluesfan

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A couple of 1:72 Felixstowes
« on: October 23, 2018, 05:59:24 AM »
I'm currently working on these two models, for a beach scene diorama. Fraid this'll be a half-hearted build log; I hadn't considered doing one at all, but this October is the time of high tension on this project, and I guess I feel a need to share some of my pain (!)

I've been working at this for quite some while this year. Despite having made several 1:32 kits, these Roden Felixstowes have felt like the hardest kits I've ever attempted (oh the bliss of a poor memory). And I'm not criticizing the kits. I've made other Roden kits, and I wouldn't include these amongst the nightmare ones. It's simply that they're pretty challenging. I remember when Roden produced them, and being amazed and delighted that anyone had kitted what were then somewhat obscure types from WWI. I have a Wingnuts Felixstowe waiting; I don't expect it to be as hard!

Ultimate success is not a given: I have a late November deadline, since I want to present the diorama as a gift at that time. So as the next couple of weeks roll on, I'll add a few pics relating to the most 'entertaining' aspects of the kits.

Offline Bluesfan

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Re: A couple of 1:72 Felixstowes
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2018, 06:12:58 AM »
Here's something which nearly stopped me in my tracks. And I have to say, being on this forum was probably crucial to my carrying on.
The thing is, Roden moulded the wings in three parts. Fair enough, given that moulding the very long wings of the Felixstowe in one piece was likely impractical, if only from the boxing point of view. However, one is expected to join them together with butt joints, and true to Roden practice, they're pretty much scale thickness. So, straight gluing them together seemed to be asking for trouble.

I've never thought of pinning pieces before attaching, before now, but seeing other examples on the forum here made me think it was worth trying. It wasn't easy, but here we are now with two 1:72 Felixstowes both with solid looking wings. Of course, they droop a bit and they shouldn't, but that's not because of the pinning...

Offline Juan

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Re: A couple of 1:72 Felixstowes
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2018, 06:47:09 AM »
Looks like a great start, wishing you success in this undertaking.

Offline GazzaS

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Re: A couple of 1:72 Felixstowes
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2018, 06:49:49 AM »
This site taught me to pin, too...  but struts, not wings. 

Good work!

Gaz
There are only two states to be in:  Queensland and blotto.

Offline lcarroll

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Re: A couple of 1:72 Felixstowes
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2018, 07:57:36 AM »
Very challenging project and one I'll follow with great interest. You've got a great start and I'm looking forward to further updates.
Cheers,
Lance

Offline Bluesfan

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Re: A couple of 1:72 Felixstowes
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2018, 02:33:08 AM »
Thanks for looking :)
A couple of pics from last week's shananigans. The hoisting of the top wing on the first boat.

All modellers must have a streak of masochism, but makers of multiplane models go one step beyond. And the moment of peak stress is surely when after extensive preparation (and procrastination), one attempts to stick that top plane in place. I'm sort of used to it these days, but the Roden Felixstowes are something else. It's not just that there are a lot of struts, but that the parts and instructions don't do much to help you out. Worst of all is the nature of the plane's design, with its engines between the wings, casually supported on dodgy struts. Much trial and error is required to figure out how to put that structure together.

The engines themselves - RR Eagles in the F.2A, Liberty engines in the H.16, are beautiful little models in their own right; but they're very fragile and even with careful handling you may have to glue exhausts etc. back on again. I freely admit I made frequent use of the Wingnuts manual for the F.2A while building the Eagles.

I can't remember if this pic was taken before or after the first mounting attempt. Which failed. There are definitely times when you just have to take a deep breath and walk away, and rethink.

Offline Bluesfan

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Re: A couple of 1:72 Felixstowes
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2018, 02:55:07 AM »
And... eventual success. Look, it's not perfect, but this'll do me.

So why didn't I use a jig? Can't give a good answer to that. Partly because I haven't tried it as a method. But also, experience with other Roden kits with lots of struts (though not as many as these); knowing that with all the various quirks I might just as well rely on steady hands and a reasonably good eye.
I relied on the nature of glue (Contacta cement) to help me out, the fact that there would be a fair bit of play for some while. And a different approach, whereby I first glued in the engine assemblies, then the struts, and kept them upright with the occasional nudge. I placed the top plane upside down, moved my lights into helpful positions, then brought the fuselage/lower wing/engine and struts down on to it, gently directing the front struts and then the rear ones into place.
It does help that despite the number of struts, the Felixstowes had a straightforward wing layout, with two even rows.

This pic must have been taken after starting on pulling the rigging taut (monofilament line). Using small bulldog clips like this has worked quite well in the past, but may have been a mistake here, because of the thinness of the wings, especially towards the wing tips, which took on a droop.
I'm approaching the moment of truth with the other boat (the H.16). You would think practice would make perfect, wouldn't you? ;)
« Last Edit: October 24, 2018, 05:58:05 AM by Bluesfan »

Offline lone modeller

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Re: A couple of 1:72 Felixstowes
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2018, 04:21:21 AM »
Sorry to read that the wings are drooping as a result of the rigging. I too do not use jigs as you can see from my build logs, but I do find that simple supports are generally more than satisfactory. May I suggest that instead of using monofilament thread which is pulling the wings out of true you use EZ line instead? I do not have direct experience of it but others who have tell me that it helps to avoid this particular problem. Perhaps others on this forum may be able to offer advice.

Stephen.

Offline Bluesfan

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Re: A couple of 1:72 Felixstowes
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2018, 06:11:18 AM »
Thanks Stephen, appreciated; I've wondered about EZline quite often but my preference is still for monofilament for the sake of having - when all goes well! - structural rigging. Instinct tells me that it'd be risky not to have the help of that with these kits.
The wingtips don't droop too much, it's just annoying to compare it with the splendid look of the real thing. It was my fault, not to allow for the thin moulding of the wings. Hopefully I can improve on that with the H.16. What I should have done is angled the line upwards while the glue was setting, rather than let the clips hang as you see in the picture.

While I'm at it, may I compliment you for the inspiring work you do in 1:72 - a shrinking but select little club these days! :)

Offline Bluesfan

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Re: A couple of 1:72 Felixstowes
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2018, 12:23:53 AM »
Rigging and control wires...
Shots of where I'm attaching some control wires at the moment, using Wonderwire (there's an inquiry thread about this elsewhere)

For the main rigging I usually use monofilament, but the Felixstowes provide plenty of problem areas for that, notably the splendid array of constantly dividing control wires at the tail. See the first pic where I've made a start, hope it's clear. Trying to use monofilament would be tricky, and impractical for the longer lengths going into the fuselage. That joy is still to come; I know the Wonderwire will look the part and stay straight, but I'm less confident about getting the 3 sections on each line right. Of course, in 1:32 WNW provide those little etched brass pieces to handle the split into two lines. In 1:72 this will be a fiddly test for eyes and fingers.

Second picture shows where I've begun on the control lines on a top wing. Fraid I'm a bit blobby with the glue.

As you can see, the Wonderwire comes in a dark steely grey, and is maybe a little overscale for 1:72. Doing all these sections of wire is time consuming, but you get into a sort of rhythm. The essential tools are a pair of compasses for measuring off, a firm base for cutting on eg. a tile, and an old craft knife for precise snapping of the ceramic material.

Offline jeroen_R90S

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Re: A couple of 1:72 Felixstowes
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2018, 05:00:10 AM »
Very cool, you don't see this kit built very often, and I have one to-do as well. I have the AIMS decals for the white/red curly scheme. I have a few Wingnut Wings kits, and I'd love to both be able to afford a Felixstowe, and have place to put the built up model!
Good luck with the H-16, too! :)

Offline RAGIII

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Re: A couple of 1:72 Felixstowes
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2018, 06:30:01 AM »
Awesome work in spite of your difficulties. Proves you are a MODELER! Excellent results so far!
RAGIII
"A man has to know his limitations": Harry Callahan

"Don't slop it on" Lynda Geisler

Offline Bluesfan

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Re: A couple of 1:72 Felixstowes
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2018, 07:43:17 AM »
Thanks for the encouragement, sincerely appreciated!

A note about compromises, while I park this machine for the moment; judgement calls made about both accuracy and detailing.
As you can see, I gave up on double rigging. While I've seen it done in 1:72, sorry, but I haven't figured out a convincing and practical way to do it, by me at any rate. More importantly for these kits, when I noticed that there is indeed rigging on the tail assembly (as opposed to control wires), I was a little too far along to feel like fitting it in. Unfortunately, tail rigging doesn't feature anywhere in the Roden illustrations. Also, I have omitted some wires from around the engine assemblies. Laziness, I guess.

As far as markings and colour schemes are concerned, I've made some deviating choices. As regards the H.16, it seems, from a couple of pictures I've seen, that this particular machine didn't actually have yellow wings, but aluminium dope.  Rather lamely, I'm imagining that it might have had some yellow paint applied later on, because it's hard to resist the look. I'll argue that many of the H.16s in that period did have fully or partially yellow painted wings, so it's 'authentic' even if not accurate.

The Chilean machine poses a different problem, in that the red and blue of the decals are badly out of register. For the large ones on the wings, I trimmed a rectangle and then painted white rectangles on the wings to place them on. But this was more awkward for the smaller ones on the fuselage, and I cut a corner there, leaving out the white outline. By the way, 'Zanartu' was the name of a midshipman who died performing a rescue, and the plane, donated by the British after the war, was apparently the first flying boat seen in South America.

Offline RAGIII

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Re: A couple of 1:72 Felixstowes
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2018, 08:24:11 AM »
Still looking terrific in my opinion! I have not done this but was once told that in smaller scales one can run two lines through one hole for double rigging separated by a piece of cardboard or paper then glued in place.
RAGIII
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"Don't slop it on" Lynda Geisler

Offline Berman

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Re: A couple of 1:72 Felixstowes
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2018, 08:34:55 AM »
If you find the 1/72nd scale Roden Felixstowe too small to work on and the 1/32nd  Wingnut Felixstowe too large to display, there is the option of the 1/48th scale Lone Star Models Felixstowe F.2a kit. This comes with parts for both early and late versions plus a beaching trolley.