Author Topic: Black shoes - white shoes - Color of WWI tyres  (Read 3624 times)

Offline Borsos

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Black shoes - white shoes - Color of WWI tyres
« on: March 29, 2018, 11:19:40 PM »
Ok, I think I am restarting a much repeated topic here, but I couldn’t find any earlier discussion here on the forum. My information regarding WWI tyres is, that before the 1920ies the rubber of the tyres had a creme color, almost white or even a pink or lilac shade depending on the rubber used. After WWI they found out that certain black additions made the tyre to last longer and so tyres became black.
For me this is a welcomed coincidence with my personal taste, as I simply prefer light colored aircraft tyres. It’s a simple matter of personal aesthetics, for me a biplane with light colored tyres simply looks better. But over the years I saw many (awesome) models with very dark tyres. I remember one of Des’ hints was to color the tyres with pencil graphite powder. And there are these “Palmer Chord Aero Tyres” decals with the WNW kits in white which are hard to be seen on a whitish tyre.
So what is your opinion? Were British tyres darker than German ones? (I remember an undercarriage of a Halberstadt CL Plane in the Technikmuseum Berlin that actually had almost white tyres) And what’s your favored color for WWI tyres?
Best regards
Borsos
"Deux armées aux prises, c'est une grande armée qui se suicide."
Barbusse.
"Ein Berg in Deutschland kann doch einen Berg in Frankreich nicht beleidigen. Oder ein Fluß oder ein Wald oder ein Weizenfeld."
Remarque.

Offline Berman

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Re: Black shoes - white shoes - Color of WWI tyres
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2018, 01:08:41 AM »
Rubber tires for automobiles were first introduced in 1895. Natural latex is white as is zinc oxide which was sometimes added to the rubber compound to add strength. Binney and Smith, (Crayola crayons) a pigment company discovered that carbon black increased the abrasion resistance, durability, and also dissipated heat. B & S sold a million pounds of carbon black in 1911 for tire use. As various amounts were added to aircraft tires the shades could range from light grey to dark grey. By the end of WWI British and American tires were almost black  Today's tires are made from about 50% carbon black. Maybe the early rubber compounds were unable to accept that much carbon without problems.

Offline markleecarter

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Re: Black shoes - white shoes - Color of WWI tyres
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2018, 04:22:14 AM »
Certainly the vast majority of photographs I've seen from wwi of RFC/RAF tyres have been very dark.

Offline gbrivio

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Re: Black shoes - white shoes - Color of WWI tyres
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2018, 05:16:19 AM »
Looking at wartime pictures, tyres shade ranges from almost white to deep black. Some even look bicolour, like automotive tyres from the fourties and fifties: ( http://www.woodenpropeller.com/SPAD7x.jpg ) so we can assume all the range of rubber latex shades plus any additional lump black were used. Should be of interest to consult a rubber industry dating from that times on aero tyres rubber formulas and then desume proper tones. Anyway, if pictures are available it's the same "intuition" matter of aircraft colours...
As for me, I like lighter colours for WWI tyres.
Ciao
Giuseppe

Offline GazzaS

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Re: Black shoes - white shoes - Color of WWI tyres
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2018, 11:05:09 AM »
This is an interesting topic I've been thinking of recently.  I'd noticed that German tires seemed very pale in photographs.  I knew natural rubber from the tree was white.  How the Germans got any during the hunger blockade is beyond my knowledge at this point.  I just assumed that some process made them gray instead of white.

On my recent Albatros build, I painted them a faint grey, then gave them a few thin washes in dirt colors, then scuffed them with various green pencils to mimic grass stains.  Remember when you would bring home grass stains on your shoes and trousers as a kid?

After that, I don't know what else I would do.

Gaz
There are only two states to be in:  Queensland and blotto.

Offline rayb24

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Re: Black shoes - white shoes - Color of WWI tyres
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2018, 12:20:17 PM »
This is an interesting topic I've been thinking of recently.  I'd noticed that German tires seemed very pale in photographs.  I knew natural rubber from the tree was white.  How the Germans got any during the hunger blockade is beyond my knowledge at this point.  I just assumed that some process made them gray instead of white.

Germany was short of supplies, that’s why you see factory pictures where the aircraft are being built and they are on wooden wheels


I never realized the full story about why tires are black.

Offline jamieg

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Re: Black shoes - white shoes - Color of WWI tyres
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2018, 10:27:06 PM »
When I was a child, certain rubber items were made in natural colour. This would include things like baby carriage wheels, tricycle tires, lawnmower wheels and other small tires. The colour was a very light grey (almost just an off white) with a slight pinkish cast.

Offline mike in calif

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Re: Black shoes - white shoes - Color of WWI tyres
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2018, 11:46:26 PM »
I remember a WWII U-boat making the trip, on the surface, back to Germany with the entire foredeck covered with tied down tires. Similar condition, I suppose. Fascinating about the tires, and a new use for lt. grey/cream paints.

Bughunter

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Re: Black shoes - white shoes - Color of WWI tyres
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2018, 07:35:39 AM »
You can still buy such white tyres for historic cars:
https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/wards-riverside-tire

Cheers,
Frank

Offline hiddeous1973

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Re: Black shoes - white shoes - Color of WWI tyres
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2018, 03:01:34 AM »
Altough I now understand the theory behind the tire colous, I still have a question (in 2 parts). It might just be from a modeling standpoint, but what I want to know is:

are the colours always the same for a given aircraft?
-part 1: do, say, all Albatros D.V have the same colour tires or are there differances between batches?
-part 2: are the tires symetrical left and right? if that could be possible, is there any (photografic) proof?

if not, it is hard enough to make guestimates about the colours of the planes as it is to also judge the exact shade a tire would be.

Offline krow113

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Re: Black shoes - white shoes - Color of WWI tyres
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2018, 03:22:55 AM »
...and the minefield opens up!

 Do the research , there re no color pics to ascertain the color of tires.

For The Gotha I'll be using a lavender base and working greys into that , ending in a dark grey towards the outer edges, followed by 'winter weathering' I also will be mixing up the shades and colors , as I am sure different tire batches would vary in color/shades as well as operational wear and tear differing from tire to tire.
My approach and philosophy is a little on the outer edge of things , so be aware of that.

 Looking at pics last night I notice the German tires are predominately in lighter shades in the B/W pics.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2018, 03:34:14 AM by krow113 »

Offline Borsos

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Re: Black shoes - white shoes - Color of WWI tyres
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2018, 04:14:29 AM »
Very informative comments and thoughts here, thank you gentlemen!
When it comes to painting tyres of German or French planes I use an off-white or beige/light brown shade. I guess I'll paint British tyres a little darker ...
Borsos
"Deux armées aux prises, c'est une grande armée qui se suicide."
Barbusse.
"Ein Berg in Deutschland kann doch einen Berg in Frankreich nicht beleidigen. Oder ein Fluß oder ein Wald oder ein Weizenfeld."
Remarque.