Author Topic: Ansaldo A.1 Balilla Polish (1/32, Aviattic)  (Read 41534 times)

Offline steveb

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Re: Ansaldo A.1 Balilla Polish (1/32, Aviattic)
« Reply #105 on: June 20, 2017, 01:00:01 PM »
Yes! Great update! What are you using for rigging on this?

Steve

Offline rowan broadbent

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Re: Ansaldo A.1 Balilla Polish (1/32, Aviattic)
« Reply #106 on: June 20, 2017, 08:37:51 PM »

I am only waiting for the replacement decals for Kosciuszko Squadron badge from Melius Manu. We had a very extensive discussion at a Polish modeling forum recently. On the Kosciuszko badge decals for WNW Camel and Aviattic Balilla. WNW ones are full of mistakes and those in the Balilla kit have some minor inaccuracies.

So please,  do tell us what the inaccuracies are. Richard and I went to considerable trouble to produce the most accurate decals we could for the Balilla.  A throw away line saying that the decals are inaccurate without qualification is less than helpful.

As you know, I have produced Polish options on a number of Pheon decal sheets - a lack of constructive feedback and a virtual absence of sales in Poland don't persuade me that I should bother doing more. I expect that the Polish option in the forthcoming Fokker EV decals will also be deemed lacking in some way. I expect the experts are already lining up, just waiting for them to be released before showing their superior knowledge. I should also expect that WNW are less than overjoyed that their decals in the Camel kit have been so comprehensively rubbished. All very encouraging.
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Offline PrzemoL

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Re: Ansaldo A.1 Balilla Polish (1/32, Aviattic)
« Reply #107 on: June 20, 2017, 11:58:12 PM »

I am only waiting for the replacement decals for Kosciuszko Squadron badge from Melius Manu. We had a very extensive discussion at a Polish modeling forum recently. On the Kosciuszko badge decals for WNW Camel and Aviattic Balilla. WNW ones are full of mistakes and those in the Balilla kit have some minor inaccuracies.

So please,  do tell us what the inaccuracies are. Richard and I went to considerable trouble to produce the most accurate decals we could for the Balilla.  A throw away line saying that the decals are inaccurate without qualification is less than helpful.

As you know, I have produced Polish options on a number of Pheon decal sheets - a lack of constructive feedback and a virtual absence of sales in Poland don't persuade me that I should bother doing more. I expect that the Polish option in the forthcoming Fokker EV decals will also be deemed lacking in some way. I expect the experts are already lining up, just waiting for them to be released before showing their superior knowledge. I should also expect that WNW are less than overjoyed that their decals in the Camel kit have been so comprehensively rubbished. All very encouraging.

Dear Rowan,

You touched several issues in your post. So here are my answers.

1. Camel decals are wrong in the following issues:
- stars on the perimeter should penetrate through the black circle and make it a dashed line
- feather on the cap is wrong in shape and texture (colours are debatable)
- the cap side corners overlap on vertical red stripes too far to the sides
- red and ultramarine colours used match those on British cockades but they are highly unlikely, the badge was painted in far east Poland, as far as possible from the source of such paints, most probably red was the same as on Polish checkboards and should be more bright (like artery blood colour) and on blue agreement is that it was much brighter, too - as pale as in Balilla decals.

close-up of Polish Camel badge:




2. Balilla decals are wrong in one issue:
- stars on the perimeter should overlap the black circle

close-up of Cooper's Balilla badge:




3. I am sure that there are many people around the world who just like to criticize and not help. Such individuals can surely be found among Polish modellers, too. But I am sure there are many who are more than eager to help, if they are given a chance. To support this statement I would like to remind you, for instance, our fruitful cooperation on the decals for Hannover and Salmson. As for the decals for Camel and Balilla I was never asked for any help. But I do not mind, firstly because I can hardly be considered an expert. However, I was told and it was stated several times, among others in the discussion on Polish modelling forum, which I mentioned earlier, that :
- WNW were given the full photographic documentation on Polish Camel and never presented their ideas on the decals for their kit for discussion/verification
- Aviattic ignored several remarks on mistakes in the Polish Balilla decal sheet and considered those who suggested changes as ignorants
- Actually, I have to rectify, I was asked by Aviattic (and Bo) for help related to Polish Balilla release but it was only on spelling of some Polish names for the instruction leaflet. Unfortunately not all my corrections were taken into account.

4. I do not wish to sit between an anvil and a hammer. I cannot verify the points given above, I only repeat what I was told. But since you present your opinion on Polish modellers:

I expect that the Polish option in the forthcoming Fokker EV decals will also be deemed lacking in some way. I expect the experts are already lining up, just waiting for them to be released before showing their superior knowledge.

... I felt obliged to present my opinion and opinions from the other side.

5. And at the end I would like to state clearly, that me, I am always eager to help anybody as much as my limited knowledge allows, who wishes to bring to life any piece of Polish aviation history. If my knowledge is not suffcuent I will ask the questions to others here, who are more experts. But I also reserve my right to point out the problems I encounter when dealing with the kits/decals related to Polish subjects. Still, my critical remarks never outbalance my general gratitude to anybody, who brings to general public Polish aviation subjects. I will take what is given, I will try to correct the errors and I will present it to those who might be interested. After all, we modellers in Poland, have been forced to deal for long long years with horrible kits of Polish subjects, full of serious errors. Provided they were released at all! Now it seems we entered the golden age of modelling with more and more surprising releases of Polish subjects. I, personally, thank everybody venturing this niche field of modelling industry, including WNW - for the new Camel, Aviattic - for the Balilla, you - for your decal sets with Polish subjects.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2017, 08:47:07 PM by PrzemoL »
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Ash nazg thrakatuluk, agh burzum-ishi krimpatul.

Offline PrzemoL

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Re: Ansaldo A.1 Balilla Polish (1/32, Aviattic)
« Reply #108 on: June 21, 2017, 05:38:42 AM »
Yes! Great update! What are you using for rigging on this?

Steve

Thanks Steve. I will use the black fishing line for single cables. For the doubles... I have an idea but I will reveal it after a test, if it is successful. Soon... :-)
Ash nazg durbatuluk, ash nazg gimbatul,
Ash nazg thrakatuluk, agh burzum-ishi krimpatul.

Offline lone modeller

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Re: Ansaldo A.1 Balilla Polish (1/32, Aviattic)
« Reply #109 on: June 22, 2017, 03:09:59 AM »
I have written many times that I am bowled over by the amount of tiny detail that you manage to achieve on your models, regardless of scale. This is no exception - just first class modelling from a master.

Stephen.

Offline Des

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Re: Ansaldo A.1 Balilla Polish (1/32, Aviattic)
« Reply #110 on: June 22, 2017, 06:40:01 AM »
I continue to be amazed by your superb workmanship and your attention to detail, an excellent build for sure.

Des.
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Offline PrzemoL

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Re: Ansaldo A.1 Balilla Polish (1/32, Aviattic)
« Reply #111 on: June 22, 2017, 08:06:55 AM »
Thank you, Stehen and Des.

Now all those lovely designed PE details are attached to the fuselage. Also the tail feathers including their rigging are completed.
I was a bit afraid if the PE mount points for rigging will hold well to the tail surfaces under the tension of the lines. I had some troubles, one turnbuckle got loose, one PE fitting went off. But it was surely not beyond repair. in the end I did not tension the rigging very much, only to have them straight. It should now hold, I hope.









Now I see this build will take me much more time than I thought at the beginning. It is a complicated kit, with many details included, and some others that could be added. And every bit in the box is worthy to take time to install it as planned by the Aviattic team. And this inevitably lengthens the process. Well, it is not a race of course. My advice to anybody thinking to start Balilla - just do it and take your time enjoying building it!
As for me, in two weeks I will be off for one month holidays and my build will pause. Still, I plan to do as much as possible before. Now it is time to try my idea on replicating the double rigging lines connected into bands... Keep your fingers crossed.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2017, 08:48:06 PM by PrzemoL »
Ash nazg durbatuluk, ash nazg gimbatul,
Ash nazg thrakatuluk, agh burzum-ishi krimpatul.

Offline Juan

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Re: Ansaldo A.1 Balilla Polish (1/32, Aviattic)
« Reply #112 on: June 22, 2017, 08:13:04 AM »
Wow, masterful kit handled masterfully.  Outstanding detail worthy of your time and talent.  When I grow up I want to have 1/10th of your talent.

Offline bobs_buckles

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Re: Ansaldo A.1 Balilla Polish (1/32, Aviattic)
« Reply #113 on: June 22, 2017, 04:30:55 PM »
Beautiful work, PrzemoL  ;)
Always a pleasure to see your updates.

Happy Holidays!!

von B



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Offline coyotemagic

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Re: Ansaldo A.1 Balilla Polish (1/32, Aviattic)
« Reply #114 on: June 23, 2017, 02:51:33 AM »
Marvelous craftsmanship as always, Przemo!  Another masterpiece in the making.
Cheers,
Bud
"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream in the dark recesses of the night awake in the day to find all was vanity. But the dreamers of day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, and make it possible." -T. E. Lawrence

Offline lone modeller

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Re: Ansaldo A.1 Balilla Polish (1/32, Aviattic)
« Reply #115 on: June 23, 2017, 03:15:51 AM »
Completely agree withBud. Never mind the holiday break - as you write enjoying the experience of building is what matters, not the time it takes.

Stephen.

Offline rowan broadbent

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Re: Ansaldo A.1 Balilla Polish (1/32, Aviattic)
« Reply #116 on: June 23, 2017, 03:46:33 AM »
Przemo, Thanks for your reply.

Just to illustrate the problems with generalisations about lack of "accuracy" or otherwise, here are two photo examples used when researching and drawing the decal badge in the Ansaldo kit:





Neither of which have stars crossing the black surround, as in your example.



Do you know if these photos were all taken at the same time? The variation could have been the result of the badge being re-applied at some point, or these could just be individual variations..... Whatever, I take accusations of "inaccuracy" seriously - to the point that I have reprinted decals when mistakes have been pointed out. In future, perhaps you could offer an explanation of criticism at the time of posting it - or even contact me directly - I have been known to respond to emails.

I of course acknowledge your help with decals in the past - and as you must know, I have always added a note of appreciation in the decal booklets - just in case anyone got the impression from your post that I did not give due recognition for any help previously received.

Rowan



Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack, a crack in everything – that’s how the light gets in

Leonard Cohen

Offline PrzemoL

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Re: Ansaldo A.1 Balilla Polish (1/32, Aviattic)
« Reply #117 on: June 23, 2017, 07:30:19 AM »
Rowan, thanks for your post with important info.  I see now better, maybe I will become more expert than earlier, that the issue is more complex. Surely, there was no one fixed pattern for the squadron badge. Chess invented it, also to have a method of covering fuselage insignia of earlier owners of the airplanes. He might have prepared a template for some elements but the overall size surely varied influencing the layout, too. It is rather not a question of time of photography, when it is about Italian built Balillas. Later ones of Polish manufacture, may have a different story - they were used for a longer period, also when Americans left the unit.  However, I was so decided on Cooper's machine, that I did not analyze the other options. And definitely, the badges in the kit are not exact copies of what is seen on 16.5. Here the time does not matter, either, because Cooper was shot down in July 1920  just three months after first Balillas were attached to the squadron. And the badges were not painted immediately. I think there was no time space enough to think of repainting 16.5.

Also, I confirm, that you have always indicated in the leaflets the credits of those who helped you with the decals, me included. Still, I will repeat, that nobody asked me for any help with Balilla decals. I was even not aware, that you were involved. Let me also repeat, that I am far from lurking and waiting for a product release to criticize it. And I am sorry to say, that in the case of Balilla some advice from my fellow modellers was ignored, as were some of my corrections on issues with spelling of Polish names.


Also, many thanks to all who follow this build and leave so many nice comments.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2017, 06:56:45 AM by PrzemoL »
Ash nazg durbatuluk, ash nazg gimbatul,
Ash nazg thrakatuluk, agh burzum-ishi krimpatul.

Offline Melius Manu

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Re: Ansaldo A.1 Balilla Polish (1/32, Aviattic)
« Reply #118 on: June 23, 2017, 09:13:03 AM »
Overlapping of stars on the outer circle is not the only error in this design. The photo attached by PrzemoL corresponds perfectly with the others shown. The differences between the badges on the original planes are negligible.The decals design does not match the original on the photos which apparently were used to prepare it. The differences are easily seen. The key issue is that the circumference of the red vertical stripes is too small which leads to further differences. The strips have too small spacing, stars are mislocated, the feather has wrong shape and wrong location. Here are some examples:



It is a pity because we are speaking of a fine model. But such mistakes in decals are noticed by many - there are also issues with the width of checkboards rim. Pity, because when I pointed out these problems when the model was presented in Facebook I was ignored and treated insolently - how dared I criticize the work of British experts. I have also offered my help to Richard in private correspondence but was treated in the same way. Thus, please do not write about your openness to cooperation, when you know better than Poles how the Polish Kosciuszko Squadron badge should look like. The same concerns the WNW Camel case. I take that you think Poland is an exotic country where no one knows anything. Not even on Polish national emblems.

Offline Des

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Re: Ansaldo A.1 Balilla Polish (1/32, Aviattic)
« Reply #119 on: June 23, 2017, 10:19:13 AM »
As the owner and administrator of this forum I have concerns regarding the direction that this brilliant build log topic is taking. Forum rule No.5 states that any disputes between a supplier/trader are not to be aired on the forum. Please keep this topic to the original content which is the build of this excellent kit by our very skilled forum member Przemol.

Des.
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