Author Topic: Interned aircraft of WWI in The Netherlands  (Read 2568 times)

Offline jeroen_R90S

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Interned aircraft of WWI in The Netherlands
« on: November 20, 2016, 06:59:26 AM »
I recieved this for my birthday:
http://www.geromybv.nl/De-Interneringen-van-vliegtuigen-tijdens-De-Groote-Oorlog

I haven't finished reading it, but it comes rougly in 4 parts:
1) how the internments of personnel and aircraft were handled
2) aircraft, airships and balloons interned, sorted by date, with pictures if known
3) interned aircraft that recieved an LVA serial (such as the well known DH9 B7620)
4) Naval affairs, aircraft, floatplanes and flying boats

The last part is about wireless, records of men and machines, and an index. There also a summary in both English and German. I do feel this book could have appealed more broadly if it had been written in English? As it is, it is a bit of a niche, especially over here in The Netherlands, being neutral and all.
(it's written in Dutch)

I can't comment on how rare, known, or unknown the photos are, I've seen more than a few before, but many were new to me. (not that that says a lot)
Just a little heads up, I now have 300+ pages to read when I'm not modelling ;)

Jeroen

Offline Nigel Jackson

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Re: Interned aircraft of WWI in The Netherlands
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2016, 07:16:05 AM »
Enjoy reading it, Jeroen; it sounds fascinating.

It would be interesting to know the balance of interned aircraft across French, German and British types.

Best wishes
Nigel

Offline jeroen_R90S

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Re: Interned aircraft of WWI in The Netherlands
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2016, 05:49:04 AM »
Will do, apart from some somewhat annoying (to me) things like writing "Leutnant" as-is (in italics) in one bit of text describing a certain aicraft, then writing "Luitenant" (translated to Dutch and non-italics) in the next. Not very consequent, but I guess that's just me I tend to notice such things :)

I did a quick count on Allied (British, Belgian and French) and German aircraft, and came up with 44 German and 48 Allied. Most numerous on the German side was the DFW C.V, (10) and on the Allied side the DH9 was a big contributor. (16 were captured in various states)

Jeroen

PS I did find an intersting photo of what is described as an Albatros DV, but appears to show a D.III with it's flat fuselage sides, different rudder and tail skid. It was alledgedly with the Jasta 63 flight of Fokker D.VIIs and one Albatros that were captured in very late 1918. The D.III has the square crosses -I'll see if I can make a picture of it for discussion purposes. There was only one other Albatros D.III and that looked very different.

Offline IvotB

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Re: Interned aircraft of WWI in The Netherlands
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2016, 06:22:19 AM »
Jeroen,

This book is due to arrive here on December 5th. You can guess why. For information about the interned airplanes during ww1 I always use the reference of the IPMS Netherlands website Nedmil. I can recommend it to you if you haven't already found it and have read all the details there.

regards,
Ivo

Offline drdave

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Re: Interned aircraft of WWI in The Netherlands
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2016, 08:50:25 AM »
I want it! Planning a nine and biff in Dutch colours

Offline Nigel Jackson

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Re: Interned aircraft of WWI in The Netherlands
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2016, 04:54:49 PM »

...

I did a quick count on Allied (British, Belgian and French) and German aircraft, and came up with 44 German and 48 Allied. Most numerous on the German side was the DFW C.V, (10) and on the Allied side the DH9 was a big contributor. (16 were captured in various states)

...

Thanks Jeroen. I suppose that it was a complex of factors, but wonder if some sort of strategic change helps explain the DH 9 numbers.

Best wishes
Nigel

Offline jeroen_R90S

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Re: Interned aircraft of WWI in The Netherlands
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2016, 10:42:35 PM »
@Ivo: yes, I know, I actually have a Wingnut Wings box waiting, but I don't know what's in it, since I let my Wife-a-Klaas choose from the printed WnW catalogue from which I crossed out the few kits I already have. :) Thanks for the Nedmil reference, but you need to be an IPMS member I think? (I'm not)

@DrDave; Ah, I see someone has a nice set of DutchDecals! :)

@Nigel: I'm not sure; most of the DH9s that were interned were damaged and/or suffred mechanical failure. According to the book, in the final weeks of the war, targets in West-Belgium were approached  from the opposite direction, over The Netherlands, making the Germans furious, but unable to do anything about it. The Dutch, with only very few AA guns, could not either. I think the reputation of the Puma engine may have something to do with it, too?

All in all, an interesting read! :)

Offline IvotB

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Re: Interned aircraft of WWI in The Netherlands
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2016, 02:36:56 AM »
Yes, you have to be an IPMS Netherlands member to have access to the Nedmil website. For me it is a very useful reference to all planes in dutch military service. Sometimes there are still some mistakes. I could help them with the Fokker A.1, which had another indication.

The website from Wilco Jonker provides information as well (he is also one of the editors of the Nedmil site)
The DH9 info can be found here:

http://kw.jonkerweb.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=100:airco-dh-9&catid=41&lang=nl&Itemid=487&showall=&limitstart=1

You have to be able to read dutch though, but for all native english speaking members here it can be a nice excercise  ;) When browsing this website you will find lots of other interned planes in the LVA.

Most interned planes arrived in the Netherlands straying north from the battlefields in Belgium and arrived at the beach of Cadzand. During ww1 it was known as the 'factory' of Cadzand.


regards,
Ivo

Offline jeroen_R90S

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Re: Interned aircraft of WWI in The Netherlands
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2016, 06:44:24 AM »
Thanks, Ivo :)

For all non-Dutch reader/speakers, check this out:
use the Search box in the upper right corner, and try for example, DFW:
http://nimh-beeldbank.defensie.nl/memorix/8a666e0c-af2d-77de-4dad-1d117fb91082
http://nimh-beeldbank.defensie.nl/memorix/fbf963f5-ae61-30b6-dc7e-4cbfcdb1a69b
Or anything else you might like, such as Bristol, DH9, whatever... some pretty nice shots.
Most are pretty Hi-res, too, if you click the orange Icon you can zoom in pretty large. No downloads, though, but there is always Printscreen and Irfanview for detail parts.

I've ordered a DFW with the Black Friday discount...  ::) :P

Offline drdave

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Re: Interned aircraft of WWI in The Netherlands
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2016, 07:19:40 AM »
Yes I've been looking. Could do a silver dh9 in  Far East roundels
I've planned a Dutch Biff and DH9 and a Fokker DVIIF already.

Offline drdave

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Re: Interned aircraft of WWI in The Netherlands
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2016, 07:22:33 AM »
I've already planned my DFW as a Jasta 30 Hack.

Offline Nigel Jackson

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Re: Interned aircraft of WWI in The Netherlands
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2016, 07:25:25 AM »

...
@Nigel: I'm not sure; most of the DH9s that were interned were damaged and/or suffred mechanical failure. According to the book, in the final weeks of the war, targets in West-Belgium were approached  from the opposite direction, over The Netherlands, making the Germans furious, but unable to do anything about it. The Dutch, with only very few AA guns, could not either. I think the reputation of the Puma engine may have something to do with it, too?

...

Thanks Jeroen. That's very much what I wondered about the deployment of the DH9 (and other types) in the final weeks of the war.

Best wishes
Nigel