Author Topic: sopwith triplane N533 "black maria"?  (Read 1431 times)

Offline ALBATROS1234

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sopwith triplane N533 "black maria"?
« on: July 11, 2016, 07:41:12 AM »
i have been working on and off on the 1/48 eduard version of this livery and was wondering about the black "C" on the bottom wing. in eduards kit there is no reference to the black "C" nor is a decal included. yet of the 1/32 roden triplane which contains the same scheme its there on the underside of the port wing. looking online for profiles and photos i can find no photos that show the undersides of the lower wing and most profiles dont show it . is there some documentation that states it was there or did roden decide from what they found it was there? granted it seems about 10% of the profiles include it. and i also found that the koster vac which has this scheme also includes the black"C". before i try to source a decal or make one from resizeing the roden one and printing on decal paper i would like to see what someone who is more knowledgeable than me on brit types has to say. i am mainly a german/a-h guy but i like the sopwith tripe and want to put one next to my many fokkers.

Offline coyotemagic

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Re: sopwith triplane N533 "black maria"?
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2016, 01:08:14 PM »
Scott, having read through "A History of No. 10 Squadron Royal Naval Air Service in World War I" by Mike Westrop, I can tell you that nowhere was there reference to under wing letters on any of the Black Flight planes nor do any of the photos, though mostly poor quality, show signs of the black letters.  Pheon's superbly researched Triplane decal sheets don't have them either.  Bear in mind that the Roden Tripe's fuselage is too short, so I don't think I'd trust that source.  Maybe someone else will have something more definitive.
Cheers,
Bud
"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream in the dark recesses of the night awake in the day to find all was vanity. But the dreamers of day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, and make it possible." -T. E. Lawrence

Offline ALBATROS1234

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Re: sopwith triplane N533 "black maria"?
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2016, 01:29:50 PM »
yea bud thats kinda what i am seeing.there is no photographic evidence and most refs do not mention it but then theres a few profiles that do show it and the koster and roden decals . roden may have copied koster but where did koster get that idea. i was thinking perhaps in some account the elusive black "C" may have been mentioned

Offline coyotemagic

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Re: sopwith triplane N533 "black maria"?
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2016, 01:33:26 PM »
Or Bill Koster, lacking any reliable RNAS references, may simply have been following RFC practices of the time.  That's a really old kit.
Cheers,
Bud
"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream in the dark recesses of the night awake in the day to find all was vanity. But the dreamers of day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, and make it possible." -T. E. Lawrence

Online lcarroll

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Re: sopwith triplane N533 "black maria"?
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2016, 09:51:42 PM »
Or Bill Koster, lacking any reliable RNAS references, may simply have been following RFC practices of the time.  That's a really old kit.
Cheers,
Bud

   I tend toward's Bud's theory as well. Westrop's book actually comments on the originator of the letter markings (Raymond Collishaw) in the Profile section of his book but nowhere is there reference to the black underside letter. For that reason I didn't add it to mine, and went with Rowan's directions on the Pheon Sheet.
Cheers,
Lance

Offline ALBATROS1234

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Re: sopwith triplane N533 "black maria"?
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2016, 10:10:17 PM »
That's cool.I actually had my white C that went on the stab/elev shatter so I bought a set of koster decals on eBay for a couple bucks so I will have a black " C" now I won't use it though . even though it does seem like a cool little accent I would prefer to stay within the general opinion of historical accuracy. Thanks me mates scott

Offline coyotemagic

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Re: sopwith triplane N533 "black maria"?
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2016, 03:09:50 AM »
Hey, Scott.  When all is said and done, it's your model and you should do as you wish with it.  If you like the look of the black C under the wing, by all means us it.  I really don't think anyone will fault you for it since there's really no solid evidence either way.  I'm hoping to see your Tripe, so please post pics.
Cheers,
Bud
"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream in the dark recesses of the night awake in the day to find all was vanity. But the dreamers of day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, and make it possible." -T. E. Lawrence

Offline davecww1

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Re: sopwith triplane N533 "black maria"?
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2016, 12:21:42 PM »
Hi Scott,
I built one about 20 years ago using the old Aurora kit (before Eduard issued theirs) and purchased the Koster decals and white metal parts from Bill Koster at a local show.  I added all of the white metal details to the Aurora kit, of course this was before I had scale drawings and knew that the Aurora wings were way too short.  So I used the decals from Koster with the white C on the upper tailplane and the black C underneath.  Looked good at the time but not sure at all about the accuracy.
Dave C