Author Topic: Pfalz Silbergrau (Read 7979 times)

RAGIII · « **on:** October 29, 2015, 10:50:33 PM »

I have begun hand painting around the engine panels and fuselage near the Machine guns on my Pfalz DIIIa. My plan was to use Misterkit Silbergrau. The question that arose is what color is Silbergrau? The Mister kit paint seems to be just a light grey. Should the color be very close to aluminum or do my fellow modelers like Misterkits' interpretation? Any info is appreciated!
RAGIII

Russell · « **Reply #1 on:** October 29, 2015, 11:36:44 PM »

Last night I read the article by Lance Krieg about this subject in the latest Windsock magazine.

From the article - the only genuine sample tested of the wing covering contained aluminium particles in clear dope (spray applied). On the aircraft the sample was from this presumably would have given a finish to the wings similar to the RAF post war silver scheme?

The article suggested (as I read it) that wooden fuselages may have had an oil based finish with aluminium in – I’m guessing that this could have resulted in a different tone.

The article also quoted a British report on a captured aircraft – it described the appearance as silver rather than grey.

After reading the article, my own view – for what little it’s worth - is if I was modelling the actual aircraft the sample was from I’d lean far more towards silver rather than grey, especially on the wings. It’s difficult to argue with the hard evidence of the dope/paint analysis. With weathering & a nod to ‘scale effect’ in mind I wouldn’t be looking for a bright silver finish but a definite silver’ish finish none the less.

Of course there’s the question of how typical the sample aircraft was (as the author says) but in the absence of any other hard information I’d be thinking it was typical of a factory finish for the DIIIa.

Silver or grey it’s a beautiful fighter.

Regards
Russell

lcarroll · « **Reply #2 on:** October 29, 2015, 11:38:23 PM »

Rick,
My personal choice is "more aluminum then grey". I found a mix in an article by Steve Hustad years back and really like the finish it provides: 2/3 ModelMaster Flat Aluminum and 1/3 their Medium Blue Grey #2055. This of course is the old enamel line, I'm not sure if it's still available. The finish appears like a very "flat" aluminum with a definite metallic appearance. I'd think you could mix similar colours of other products or mediums and get the same results with a little experimentation. Here's the results:

Hope this helps, it's just one of many options I'm sure.
Cheers,
Lance

PrzemoL · « **Reply #3 on:** October 29, 2015, 11:46:21 PM »

I have also read that article in Windsock International. And I share the Russell's opinion as well as Lance's.
A mix of siver and light grey is fine, IMHO. If I remember correctly I used 50/50 for my two Pfalzes built a few years ago.

RAGIII · « **Reply #4 on:** October 30, 2015, 12:29:06 AM »

Thanks for the quick responses! I have taken the suggestions and added some, ( a lot), of Valejo silver to the Misterkit Silbergrau. The result seems to be satisfactory! We shall see....
RAGIII

skeeterbuck · « **Reply #5 on:** October 30, 2015, 01:05:28 AM »

I would think that the amount of silver/aluminum vs. the amount of white/gray would depend on how you are weathering. If you're looking for a newer finish then the metallic should show in the paint, but if you're looking for a weathered appearance then not much if any at all. Also, the scale of the aircraft would also factor into the results with the 1/32 and larger scales showing some metallic and 1/48 little down to 1/72 none at all.

Chuck

IIRC, Ray Rimmel would suggest 2 parts silver to one part white for his interpretation of silbergrau.

coyotemagic · « **Reply #6 on:** October 30, 2015, 02:14:58 AM »

Well, Amigo, it appears I'm late for the ball, as you've already made the correction, but I'll chime in anyway. I agree with Russell, Przemo and Lance that a 2 to 1 mixture of aluminum and light grey is most likely correct base primarily on British accounts of "silver" Pfalz that they encountered. Looking forward to seeing your D.IIIa with paint on it.
Cheers,
Bud

Michael Scarborough · « **Reply #7 on:** October 30, 2015, 02:33:41 AM »

Well, I'm just chiming in to say that this is all fascinating and it makes me want to build a Pfalz.....and play with paint formulae.

I don't know if this has any bearing on the issue but I know that from using mica powder and other metallics in my work, the amount of metallic "sparkle" depends on how much aluminum powder is used in the paint formula. Sounds obvious, I know, but it is amazing how in some cases there is no "sparkle" at all unless the piece is rotated towards the light. My point being that an airplane in flight might appear to have a matte finish until it banked at which point it might appear to have a glossy or sparkly, metallic finish.

I will definitely not win the Noble Prize for literature for the above paragraph but I think you get my point.

Cheers from NYC,
Not The Bard

RAGIII · « **Reply #8 on:** October 30, 2015, 05:51:37 AM »

Quote from: Michael Scarborough on October 30, 2015, 02:33:41 AM

Well, I'm just chiming in to say that this is all fascinating and it makes me want to build a Pfalz.....and play with paint formulae.

I don't know if this has any bearing on the issue but I know that from using mica powder and other metallics in my work, the amount of metallic "sparkle" depends on how much aluminum powder is used in the paint formula. Sounds obvious, I know, but it is amazing how in some cases there is no "sparkle" at all unless the piece is rotated towards the light. My point being that an airplane in flight might appear to have a matte finish until it banked at which point it might appear to have a glossy or sparkly, metallic finish.

I will definitely not win the Noble Prize for literature for the above paragraph but I think you get my point.

Cheers from NYC,
Not The Bard

Thanks to All who have responded. Your comments are greatly appreciated.
Michael,
It is interesting that you mention the angle relative the "Sparkle" My current mixture looks to be the same grey as before unless light hits it then the Silver is quite evident. should be interesting when I airbrush the rest of the fuselage.
RAGIII

bobs_buckles · « **Reply #9 on:** October 30, 2015, 06:44:24 AM »

I also read the article and will now be painting the interior light grey on my Pfalz ;-) Out with the green & in with the grey! Should be fun, no?

VB

P.S.
My mixture for Silber Grau is 2 parts mythril silver to 1 part Skull white. Both paints coming from the Games Workshop range. Thinned heavily with Tamiya thinners.

oldalbie · « **Reply #10 on:** October 30, 2015, 08:16:56 AM »

I'm also finishing up a Pfalz D IIIa with a silbergrau finish. I had the Misterkit version but couldn't find it (sold my house, moved) so I used a mixture of Tamiya flat aluminum and sky gray. I put in a little more aluminum though. From some angles it looks a little grayer and does have a more silver look when turned.

RAGIII · « **Reply #11 on:** October 30, 2015, 09:00:53 AM »

Thanks Von Buckles and Old Albie for the continued input. I am attaching a newer photo and it is as expected hard to pick up a major difference. Perhaps it will show better once I airbrush the rest of the fuselage. Either way I like the results of my mix... kind of between Lances and Von Buckles.

RAGIII

Dal Gavan · « **Reply #12 on:** October 30, 2015, 10:20:06 AM »

G'day, Rick.

I remember puzzling over this as well, before giving up and deciding to buy the (then/still well regarded) Mr Kit paints. The Mr Kit paint is indeed a very light grey- couple of shades lighter than Humbrol 28- with no metallic cast at all. I used it on my Pfalz build and found it to cover nicely, but only over a flat enamel primer- it doesn't like bare plastic.

Whether the colour is correct or not is another question. The Pfalz factory-built reproduction looks "metallic" in the two photo's that were on the net (the link I have is broken, but someone may have a good one- Terri may know). The "Pfalz Grey" on the D.XII in the AWM doesn't look metallic, but it's also not original as the aircraft has been restored at least twice. And the low light won't help any metallic cast shine, either.

The mix you did up looks as good as any, but I thought the engine panels were left unpainted (itself another argument for a metallic paint being used, if the unpainted panels were considered a match).

Cheers.

Dal.

RAGIII · « **Reply #13 on:** October 30, 2015, 10:42:22 AM »

Quote from: Dal Gavan on October 30, 2015, 10:20:06 AM

G'day, Rick.

I remember puzzling over this as well, before giving up and deciding to buy the (then/still well regarded) Mr Kit paints. The Mr Kit paint is indeed a very light grey- couple of shades lighter than Humbrol 28- with no metallic cast at all. I used it on my Pfalz build and found it to cover nicely, but only over a flat enamel primer- it doesn't like bare plastic.

Whether the colour is correct or not is another question. The Pfalz factory-built reproduction looks "metallic" in the two photo's that were on the net (the link I have is broken, but someone may have a good one- Terri may know). The "Pfalz Grey" on the D.XII in the AWM doesn't look metallic, but it's also not original as the aircraft has been restored at least twice. And the low light won't help any metallic cast shine, either.

The mix you did up looks as good as any, but I thought the engine panels were left unpainted (itself another argument for a metallic paint being used, if the unpainted panels were considered a match).

Cheers.

Dal.

Thanks for the comment! I am still looking into the panels relative to being left Unpainted. Probably correct but I am having trouble wrapping my brain around the "Unpainted" thing. I am looking at photos trying to discern any variance in finish on Cowls that are not over painted with Jasta or personal colors. If necessary I can use a little SNJ powder to brighten up the panels.
RAGIII

RAGIII · « **Reply #14 on:** November 02, 2015, 01:36:51 PM »

The final decision:

RAGIII