Rib Tape Question

[RAGIII]

It would be very cool if we had a source for plain linen tapes in all scales (especially 1/48), dontcha think, Rowan?   I've not seen plain linen tape decals anywhere and that would have been my first choice for the Hannover.
Cheers,
Bud

Although not 1/48th of course, WNW does include plain linen tapes in their decals!
RAGIII

[WarrenD]

It would be very cool if we had a source for plain linen tapes in all scales (especially 1/48), dontcha think, Rowan?   I've not seen plain linen tape decals anywhere and that would have been my first choice for the Hannover.
Cheers,
Bud

While OOP now, Americal-Gryphon offered plain linen rib tapes Bud.

FWIW,

Warren

[vincentm]

Very interesting thread as I'm beginning to wonder what kind of rib tapes I'll have to apply on my WIP Albatros and the followers...

In the opinion of others, the differentially coloured blue and pink tapes might ORIGINALLY have been intended to tone in with the top and bottom lozenge colours (blue upper, pink lower),

Is that supposed to be the rule? is there any evidence or is it just a "habit" to use blue tapes on top and pink ones on bottom?

but this was quickly found to be too time-consuming (application of a single tape wrapping around the leading edge and covering the rib locations top and bottom was much quicker) and the possibility of holding up production due to a shortage of the right colour of rib tape was seen as undesirable and unnecessary - particularly given the negligible impact of blue or pink tapes on the camouflage effect of the printed fabric, so rib tapes of whatever colour available were applied by either factory. NOTE I have NO evidence that this is true - it is an explanation of sorts and probably just as valid as any other until documentary evidence is unearthed - or if it has already been discovered, produced.

I should say, unfortunately, this makes sense with what I've recently learned about props which could almost be of any type/brand depending on supplies. Why would it be different for rib tapes?

If the color of rib tapes is linked to the manufacturer, are there any tables that would allow identifying the maker from a/c s/n?

[uncletony]

Very interesting thread as I'm beginning to wonder what kind of rib tapes I'll have to apply on my WIP Albatros and the followers...

In the opinion of others, the differentially coloured blue and pink tapes might ORIGINALLY have been intended to tone in with the top and bottom lozenge colours (blue upper, pink lower),

Is that supposed to be the rule? is there any evidence or is it just a "habit" to use blue tapes on top and pink ones on bottom?

but this was quickly found to be too time-consuming (application of a single tape wrapping around the leading edge and covering the rib locations top and bottom was much quicker) and the possibility of holding up production due to a shortage of the right colour of rib tape was seen as undesirable and unnecessary - particularly given the negligible impact of blue or pink tapes on the camouflage effect of the printed fabric, so rib tapes of whatever colour available were applied by either factory. NOTE I have NO evidence that this is true - it is an explanation of sorts and probably just as valid as any other until documentary evidence is unearthed - or if it has already been discovered, produced.

I should say, unfortunately, this makes sense with what I've recently learned about props which could almost be of any type/brand depending on supplies. Why would it be different for rib tapes?

If the color of rib tapes is linked to the manufacturer, are there any tables that would allow identifying the maker from a/c s/n?

Welcome to the world of WWI modeling Vincent Dig around and you will find strong opinions but precious little hard evidence for many questions. DSA championed the idea of Blue = OAW, Pink = Johannistal; no one seems to know where this notion came from but that doesn't mean it was wrong. If you have the serial number of your subject you can easily work out the manufacturer. Otherwise you have to look for the little variations. WS "Albatros Fighters" is one publication that lists the production blocks and manufacturers by s/n. Remind me the s/n of your machine and I will look it up for you.

[vincentm]

WS "Albatros Fighters" is one publication that lists the production blocks and manufacturers by s/n

Thanks, I'll see if I can put a hand on it.

The s/n of my Albatros D-V is 2299.

[lcarroll]

WS "Albatros Fighters" is one publication that lists the production blocks and manufacturers by s/n

Thanks, I'll see if I can put a hand on it.

The s/n of my Albatros D-V is 2299.

Vincentm,
   I just checked in my copy; DV 2299/17 is/was in a batch of 400 ordered in May 1917 and if I interpret the Table correctly was Albatros Built.
Cheers,
Lance


   

[vincentm]

Thanks. This mean that the underside rib tapes can only be pink: either because the Albatros factory used only this color, either because the lower tapes were always pink regardless of the maker. Now for the upper rib tapes, it's pink...or blue.

[uncletony]

Thanks. This mean that the underside rib tapes can only be pink: either because the Albatros factory used only this color, either because the lower tapes were always pink regardless of the maker. Now for the upper rib tapes, it's pink...or blue.

I don't think that is correct. Tapes were same color top & bottom. In fact same tape wraps all the way around the rib.

[lcarroll]

Thanks. This mean that the underside rib tapes can only be pink: either because the Albatros factory used only this color, either because the lower tapes were always pink regardless of the maker. Now for the upper rib tapes, it's pink...or blue.

I don't think that is correct. Tapes were same color top & bottom. In fact same tape wraps all the way around the rib.

   To the extent of my reading that appears to be true in the case of Lozenge Tapes; I have not seen any references to the lighter underside Lozenge being used for tapes, both upper and lower surfaces are stated as having the darker upper surface Lozenge Tapes.. On the other hand though I suspect whatever was close at hand could have been used. Being the same top and bottom makes sense, we'll probably never know for certain.............. Thankfully there were no PC10 and/or PC12 tapes.......!!
Cheers,
Lance

[ALBATROS1234]

i have been interested in this subject for a while now and i still have no definative answer. the theory that the tapes were one piece and wrapped around the wing makes sense for ease of installation but i have to say i dont like the way it looks with upper lozenge tapes on the lower lozenge. to me it looks wrong. which most likely means i am wrong. but i just dont know.

[vincentm]

Thanks for the info. I like logic. So, if the lower rib tapes on an Albatros-built a/c can on only be pink (either because of an hypothetic upper/blue, lower/pink rule, either because of the manufacturer's habit), and if the rib tapes actually wrapped the whole wing in only one piece, then it means that rib tapes were pink on upper and lower wing side on an Albatros-built a/c!
I know that logic is not always the rule of reality, but at least it gives me good arguments to do so since Lörzer D-V s/n 2299 is an Albatros-built machine.

[davecww1]

Just to add my two cents, if you look at the Albatros DVa Stropp at the NASM, the wings were restored following the pattern of the original fabric that was saved, so I'm sure the pink rib tapes on upper and lower are what were on the original wings when they received it. (although further research tells us that these wings are not the original ones for that fuselage, but were probably replacements added after the war from various captured parts.)   I would have to go with the pink rib tapes for an Albatros built machine, even though I built a Jasta 5 D.V with blue rib tapes years ago...
As far as the cost factor goes, if it was cheaper to use single colored rib tapes than cutting the 4 or 5 color upper surface fabric, why would Fokker use the more expensive method on the D.VII?  As we have heard many times over the years Fokker was not one to spend extra money when he could get away with a cheaper method...
Dave

[vincentm]

Yes that makes sense. I've also seen pictures of the NASM D-V but I find the lower lozenge colors are weird.
The Vintage Aviator D-V replica in New Zealand is also the result of a very serious restoration as far as I can tell. The upper wing rib tapes are blue, but it is a D-Va and I ignore which factory built it...

[davecww1]

Here's an article on the lozenge and rib tapes on the Albatros DVa in Australia, very odd that the original rib tapes were Lavender!  to me that is a light purple, a cross between blue and pink, but not the usual salmon pink color described by Dan San Abbott in his articles...

http://www.awm.gov.au/blog/2008/04/11/albatros-fabric-research/

[uncletony]

Richard's reply in another topic on this subject bears repeating... I dare say he is about as knowledgeable on this subject as anybody:

Again, the myth perpetuates...Dan San championed those conclusions - which have entered into WW1 aviation history and been repeated parrot-fashion ever since - based solely on his perceptions of black and white photos and had no more "proof" than anyone else. Windsock and many other publications over the years have supported his theories but I stress, they are not "fact" - no directive, Idflieg instructions, factory orders have ever confirmed the  blue/pink/lozenge tape idea being determined by Fokker, Albatros or OAW.
The Australian Albatros at Canberra unearthed Lilac tapes which upon fading and beneath perished varnish can appear pink, the Smithsonian DVa blue and pink from different wings (different serial nos) , the Brome County DVII has a bit of everything! I possess a 5 colour sample with linen tapes over painted in the lozenge colours at the correct junctures!...

The use of linen tapes didn't really figure in Dan Sans directive and is quite possibly responsible for many "pale" tapes visible on photos, particularly of two seaters.

Not as convenient a story Im afraid, it would be great to think a simple statement would help us all make accurate models, but WW1 matters are never that simple.

For what it's worth I would suggest you use the OAW/ALB/Fokker theory as a guideline but make your own judgement..this is not intended as a "dig" at Dan San , by the way, he and his debating style brightened many dark corners of WW1 aviation study and I'm sure he'd have changed his stance in light of recent discoveries and information.

Best wishes, Richard

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