Author Topic: Looking for pictures of any HF.27  (Read 3482 times)

Offline Old Man

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Looking for pictures of any HF.27
« on: September 24, 2015, 11:02:08 AM »
"I'm looking for pound notes, loose change, bad checks, anything...."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMgyxqcdVYY

I am stuck into a scratch-build of one of these, and there really does not seem to be much available out there. I am willing to guess when I have to, certainly, but do try and keep it to a minimum. Just about anything would be helpful....

Offline Des

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Re: Looking for pictures of any HF.27
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2015, 11:14:21 AM »
I haven't found any pictures yet but still searching, but did find this bit of info.

Henri Farman  HF-20 had the following variants

HF-21
HF-22
HF-23
HF-24
HF-25
HF-27 which was powered by the Salmson 9 engine.

Des.
Late Founder of ww1aircraftmodels.com and forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com

Offline Old Man

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Re: Looking for pictures of any HF.27
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2015, 01:42:46 PM »
I have enough to start on, Sir.

In the Davilla and Soltan book there is a general arrangement drawing: it is in 1/144 but that is no problem for basic dimension and outline, though it is of the Russian Dux-built version, and there were some differences, features in the drawing and pictures of Russian machines that do not show up in French-built examples used by the English, though some early French-built example show a few differences as well, mostly in how much enclosure is provided the crew.

The rear portion of the nacelle is bare, covering stops a bit before the rear interplane strut, which serves as an anchor for some of the nacelle structural framework. The 'cabanes' are, in short, actually interplane struts that are part of the nacelle structure.

Here a couple of pictures that give at least a glimpse of the tricky area:






The first is an RNAS machine at Mudros, the second is a machine in India, probably 31 Sqdn.

It used a 140 Canton-Unne, though without the extended crankcase, and I intend to crib shamelessly from your Voisin build. But at any rate it is pretty clear the motor is fixed at the rear only, and that all this is open to considerable fresh air and prying eyes....

Offline Des

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Re: Looking for pictures of any HF.27
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2015, 02:39:32 PM »
Very similar in appearance to the Voisin 3 with the Voisin using the same Salmson engine, the undercarriage set-up is virtually the same.

Des.
Late Founder of ww1aircraftmodels.com and forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com

Offline ALBATROS1234

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Re: Looking for pictures of any HF.27
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2015, 01:36:14 PM »
old man i was going to look in my davilla book but apparently you have that. and des those french pushers are all very similar. actually gabriel voisin and maurice farman built the voisin-farman 1 together. voisin was towing gliders behind speedboats before that. the voisin-farman 1 may have been the first heavier than air craft to achieve a controlled flight in europe. i think thats the history. and they won some cash prize and also lured the wright brothers to europe to show the french they werent as advanced as they thought.lol or so the story goes. other than that the santo dumont 14 bis(i think first flight in europe but not very controlled) was another very early craft. both of which you may like to scratch someday.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2015, 01:45:15 PM by ALBATROS1234 »

Offline Old Man

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Re: Looking for pictures of any HF.27
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2015, 10:58:26 AM »
Thank you both for your interest.

I have recently found a couple of pictures which, though they are not of an HF-27, may b of some help.



This is of a pre-war Farman, but it suggests the style of mount for a radial favored by them....

The other is of some early 'one-off' Farman fitted with an 80hp Canton-Unne, shot from a similar 'off the stern' angle; it is not so clear, but something resembling the bearer pattern in the picture above can be seen. I will have to jump through some hoops toget the image down off a PDF file, so I cannot post it just now.

I do not think it is really proper to refer to the HF-27 as a variant of the HF.20 design, and suspect there was some cribbing off M. Voisin in its design. Everything about the wings and the undercarriage says Voisin, and so does the steel framing of the wings, and even the motor.  None of these things bear any relation in appearance to the HF-20 et al. Even the nacelle does not match; it seems more reminiscent of a Maurice Farman effort than of an earlier Henry. Only the tail assembly can be said to be in common with the HF-20 line.

Relations between the Farmans and Voisin were, I gather, pretty poor at the time. They had started out as friends, with the Farmans customers and collaborators in refining the design of the original Voisin, but there came a point where M.Voisin sold a machine the Farmans had ordered to an Englishman who offered a bit more cash on the barrel, and that was a final straw in a serious falling out between the two pioneers.

Offline ALBATROS1234

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Re: Looking for pictures of any HF.27
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2015, 09:27:36 PM »
interesting thanks old man

Offline Zabu

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Re: Looking for pictures of any HF.27
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2015, 11:03:44 AM »
Hi Old Man, glad to see you around.

I don't have much to add to HF27 not even in photos, but this is what i have beside the ones you already shown.



Bad quality photo, but...







and my last one




Sorry if i can't be more helpfull

Cheers

Offline Old Man

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Re: Looking for pictures of any HF.27
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2015, 10:57:53 AM »
Thank you, Sir.

Most of these I have seen, but there remain points of interest.

The interior shot, for instance, I had not known for certain was of an HF-27, and confirmation there is very helpful.

The second picture down, the shot from starboard quarter with rudder striping, I have seen, if recollection serves, on the old Aerodrome, in a  Breguet ID challenge. I believe it was identified as an RNAS machine at some Channel port. Do you know if this is the case?

Offline Zabu

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Re: Looking for pictures of any HF.27
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2015, 08:01:37 AM »
Yes it is Oldman.

That photo it's from the RNAS HF 27 serial number 3626 with 5 Wing at Koudekerke in 1916.

Cheers

Offline Old Man

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Re: Looking for pictures of any HF.27
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2015, 12:17:34 AM »
An enquiry on a forum dedicated to the South African Air Force has borne excellent fruit. I now have pictures of South African HF-27s on campaign in Southwest Africa with enough information to properly finish a model, and into the bargain, one which shows the engine mounting clearly. I have asked the gentleman who posted them for permission to repost elsewhere, but they can be seen now at this link....

http://www.saairforce.co.za/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8407&p=106005#p106005

Offline Old Man

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Re: Looking for pictures of any HF.27
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2015, 02:07:27 AM »
Here are the pictures South African HF-27s on campaign in German Southwest Africa in the thread linked to above:








Here is another picture I am confident from its provenance is also a South African HF-27 In German Southwest Africa:



It was found here:

http://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/antiquarian-auctions/catalogue-id-sran10014/lot-1cd6853a-1bd1-405e-86cb-a47601298457

Offline IanB

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Re: Looking for pictures of any HF.27
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2015, 08:30:52 AM »
Excellent pics Oldman, thanks for reposting them! I noticed from the original SA forum that these a/c served in East Africa, so I may have to follow you down this route sometime.... my Grandfather was an Army Service Corps driver in Dar-es-Salaam during WWI so I want to build a couple of machines to represent that forgotten front.

Ian

Michael Scarborough

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Re: Looking for pictures of any HF.27
« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2015, 09:20:46 AM »
Just found these on another site....not to many of the HF but the other photos are quite entertaining. Makes you realize it really was a World war.

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=188655

Cheers from NYC,
Michael

Offline Old Man

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Re: Looking for pictures of any HF.27
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2015, 01:01:34 AM »
Thank you, Sir.

That is a great forum, with many very knowledgeable fellows. I had seen those pictures, and was very glad of them.

I have recently come on some excellent pictures of HF-27s in service in German Southwest Africa, which I will be posting up later today.

As you say, it was a world war, and this type, though not built in great numbers, had a most far-flung employment: in English or Dominion hands in Africa, the Mediterranean, Mesopotamia, Arabia, the Northwest Frontier, and even anti-submarine patrols out of Couderkirk, while the Russians employed the type on all fronts from the Caucasus to the Courland.