Humbrol colour matches for a Nieuport 28

[Dave W]

I scored a 1/32 Roden Nieuport 28 on Ebay and want to do it in one of the US-operated schemes but the kit colour callouts are keyed to Model Master paints, not a brand I like or use.

Would anyone have a suitable Humbrol match to the appropriate French colours applied to the Nieuport 28?

Thanks and regards

Dave Wilson
Gold Coast
Australia

[Dal Gavan]

G'day, Dave.

I used Humbrol for mine, with the exception of the brown and buff.  For the dark green I used H116, for the light H120 with a dash of H117 to darken it slightly and make it look less stark, and Gunze Sangyo (Aqueous) 85 for the buff.  For the brown I put down an undercoat of H98, but it didn't look right.  I put a thin coat of Vallejo 984 Flat Brown over it and it looks good.  I didn't distinguish between doped fabric and painted metal on the top, but probably should have.

Undersides H103 for CDL and 121 for the metal.  I think I added some white to the 103, but can't remember with certainty.  The under surface of mine looks lighter and less yellow than 103 normally looks.

Cheers.

Dal.

[Dave W]

G'day Dal

Many thanks for the Humbrol pointers. Just what I need so very much appreciated. The Roden 1/32 Nieuport 28 kit is really nice and at $A30 ( including a Squadron aftermarket decal sheet ) was too good a bargain to pass up.

cheers

Dave

[Dal Gavan]

Glad to be of help, Dave.  There's a couple of excellent build logs (Rick's, Lance's and Patrick's) that will be worth looking at.  It's a good kit, but there are some areas that can be problematic.

Cheers.

Dal.

[Dave W]

Thanks for the heads up Dal. Much appreciated
Cheers
Dave

[RAGIII]

Glad to be of help, Dave.  There's a couple of excellent build logs (Rick's, Lance's and Patrick's) that will be worth looking at.  It's a good kit, but there are some areas that can be problematic.

Cheers.

Dal.

Also remember that since you got a great deal on the kit you can add Aviattics seat and cowl without feeling guilty 
RAGIII

[Dave W]

A good point RAG III but unfortunately the current exchange rates mean the cowl and seat would cost more than I paid for the whole kit and aftermarket decal set.  The parts sure look great, especially the seat.
Dave Wilson
Gold Coast
Australia

[davecww1]

Don't forget when painting French aircraft with the 5 color camouflage (Nieuport 28, SPAD XIII, Breguet 14, Salmson 2A2, etc) they were painted with aluminized dope (pigments mixed with around 40% aluminum powder) so I always use darker colors and mix with aluminum paint.  The dope was only used on fabric surfaces, the metal surfaces used a Ripolin type of paint  which was like oil paint, and the colors were noticeably different as it did not have the aluminum mixed with it.  There are many good articles about this finishing practice done by Alan Toelle, the most recent was in Windsock magazine a couple of years ago. Here is a SPAD XIII I did using this mix of paint. 

[Berman]

 The Spring 2014 issue of Windsock had an excellent article on how to achieve the correct colors and reflectivity on French five color camouflage. The technique described basically duplicates how the original colors were mixed. For the fabric areas, the article says to add 42% silver paint and the metal areas 42% light grey. The exact ratios of lamp black, prussian blue,chrome yellow,chrome orange,white,Alizarin red, Ventian red, burnt umber, and raw umber are all described in a chart.  In addition there are color mixes for the proper shades for the national markings. I can not relate these formulas here because of copyright issues.
  The only thing that I have to disagree with the article is the use of cheap acrylic craft paint. If you are going to spend alot of time and money on a model, you should use quality artist's acrylic tube paint. It might be possible to also use oil tube paints thinned to the correct consistency with  artist's medium and some drying oils. I have many tubes of oil paint so I would like to hear from someone who knows how to transform tube oil paint into a type of enamel.

[Dave W]

Many thanks for all the helpful responses. Much appreciated gentlemen!

Dave Wilson
Gold Coast
Australia

[flypaper]

The Spring 2014 issue of Windsock had an excellent article on how to achieve the correct colors and reflectivity on French five color camouflage. The technique described basically duplicates how the original colors were mixed. For the fabric areas, the article says to add 42% silver paint and the metal areas 42% light grey. The exact ratios of lamp black, prussian blue,chrome yellow,chrome orange,white,Alizarin red, Ventian red, burnt umber, and raw umber are all described in a chart.  In addition there are color mixes for the proper shades for the national markings. I can not relate these formulas here because of copyright issues.
  The only thing that I have to disagree with the article is the use of cheap acrylic craft paint. If you are going to spend alot of time and money on a model, you should use quality artist's acrylic tube paint. It might be possible to also use oil tube paints thinned to the correct consistency with  artist's medium and some drying oils. I have many tubes of oil paint so I would like to hear from someone who knows how to transform tube oil paint into a type of enamel.

I haven't seen the article but from your description it sounds like the mixes came from I believe an Article written for Airfix magazine back in the 70's.

My problem with the addition of silver paint is that no matter what paint you use you will see the flakes of silver in the finished paint job. There isn't a silver paint out there fine enough to solve this problem. If you look at the restored Spad XII at the Memorial Flight site you will see there is  sign of flakes in the finish even though the used paints made to the original formulas.

In my opinion the only way to add reflective luster to the model paint  is to buff the matt paint to give it the reflective look with out adding silver flakes scattered in the paint job.

Of course this is my 2 cents.You can see in the pictures the a/c definitely is reflective but not glossy nor is there a hint of silver in the finish, and definity no sign of silver flake.

[davecww1]

Hi Flypaper, The article in Spring 2014 issue of Windsock was the one that I mentioned in my post.  It was done by Alan Toelle, who was one of the authors of the original Project Butterfly series in Cross & Cockade in the late 60's/early 70's.  I am sure that was where the information in the Airfix article was taken from, and the pigments are still valid for those that choose to mix their own paint.  If you look at the photo of my SPAD XIII above and enlarge it as high of a magnification as possible you will not see any aluminum pigments showing through, although I mixed around 40% Model master aluminum enamel paint with my various camouflage mixes.  If mixed and thinned properly you cannot see the individual aluminum pigments, it just grays down the original colors and gives the finish what Alan refer's to the "wet fish" appearance.  I also had Alan look at photos of my SPAD model and he told me that the colors looked authentic to his eye except for the beige, which should be more of a pumpkin color. So I know for my next try at the 5 color camouflage I will mix a little orange with my beige.
Dave

[flypaper]

  Sorry to be contrary but I still don't see the need to add silver paint to achieve a proper finish for a 5 color scheme. I could understand if you were building a 1:1 replica since the aluminum would be needed to protect the fabric from sun damage. From what I have read in  'Project Butterfly' it was used for that reason alone and not used  to formulate a particular color. A proper dark green, for example, can be mixed and matched with available paints with out the addition of the silver/aluminum paint.The same can be done with all  remaining colors. As far as the 'wet fish' finish, for a relatively new aircraft a buffing with a soft cloth  will give a reflective but not glossy finish. I have read that this finish did not last long in the field.
Having both the Project Butterfly articles plus a Methuen hand book of color I have matched the 4 colors to several brands of model paints, all falling within the Methuen colors mentioned. Also they were  matched with out the addition of silver.

An interesting point concerning those articles is that the wrong Methuen code was printed in the article for the Dark Brown! and as far as I know the only cleared up several years later in WWI Aero magazine in a letter to the editor.

[Berman]

The advantage of the Windsock article on color mixing is that by adding 42% silver, you get the correct shades for the doped  fabric areas. By simply substituting 42% light grey, you get the correct shades for the Ripolin metal painted sections.

[flypaper]

So in fact you start with a mix of colors that Does Not match the Methuen colors for the 5 color scheme and have to add silver as a graying agent in order to get to the correct color? As if there wasn't many many pre-mixed paints that will give you the proper colors needed. Also looking at the list of colors needed to mix the shades how can one be sure your working with the proper ones, Alizarin Red, Chrome Orange, Ventian Red are colors that certainly dont jump off of the paint rack at the hobby shop, and if your forced to substitute aren't you defeating the whole purpose of the article?