Help, I'm having engine trouble!

[Pgtaylorart]

I wasn't sure if I should post this in my Pup build thread or start a side one for this issue but here goes.

I just finished building a Taurus Gnome 100 hp. resin engine for my 1:32 WNW Sopwith Pup. I'm happy with it, but the problem is, it doesn't fit the WNWs cowl! The engine is 33.10mm in diameter, but the Pup's cowl has an ID of 29.40mm and an OD of 30.80mm. The engine is about 4mm too big! The Taurus and the WNWs instructions both say this engine was used on this plane.

My dilemma; I really like the look of the Taurus engine and I have another in my stash to play with. Should I start a new one and cut down each cylinder in order to fit it in the cowl? The cowl is pretty enclosed all around so I don't think the chopping would be too evident. Only the center is really visible, and the prop hides some of that. (What a shame to butcher such a nice kit though) Or should I just make the best of the WNW kit engine and use my finished Taurus on a DH.2 where it's fully exposed and should fit with no problem.

I should also add that I would like to keep the cowling on, although I am open to rebuilding it. But 4mm extra is a bit too large for this cowl to retain its proper shape with the fuselage.

I'm kinda torn and I would appreciate some good input.

Here's a link to my Taurus engine: http://forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com/index.php?topic=5223.120


Thanks!
George

[Des]

Quite a dilemma you are faced with George. The Pup engine cowl pretty much covers the entire outer parts of the rotary engine so a little butchering on the rocker assembly would not be noticeable, but what a shame to have to cut up a perfectly good engine. 4mm is way too much to grind out of the inside of the cowl so the next alternative would be to use the original WNW kit engine which in its own right is quite a good engine and looks perfectly okay when mounted onto the aircraft and the cowl fitted. If it was me who was making the decision, I would use the kit engine and keep the beautiful Taurus engine for a project where the engine is fully exposed, like the DH.2.

Des.

[FokkerFodder]

Hi George

I've had a similar dilemma recently building 2 Academy Camels and using Vector Resin engines; having sanded the cowling inside to egg shell thinness I was still no-where near obtaining a fit. 

While nowhere as lovely as your efforts with the Taurus, the Vector engines are still pretty nice and I didn't feel up to cutting them to pieces to fit them in.  I sought suggestions on the forum as well, and ended up as follows:  ordered a WNM engine - fine but not so fussy as the resin options - snipped as required and in the engine went and its virtually impossible to see the inside butchery.  The other Camel will be left with the cowling off with the nice vector engine for a diorama option.... ( a Bo suggestion - I have a vision here but the execution is another matter!!) and the other engine for a J. Jacobs Dr. 1 down the track (it seems to fit the Avattic cowling).

The Camel looks a bit odd with the cowling off in my view - so I would go for a simple WNM engine to snip and mangle, and save your lovely Taurus for a diorama or another project where it doesn't need mangling.....

cheers
FF

[Michael Scarborough]

PGT IV, when the photos of your incredible build of the Taurus engine popped up, my first thought was, "what a shame to cover so much of that with the cowl". So, I am with Des....use this amazing engine in a Dh.2 where the work you put into it can be fully appreciated. And, think how much further ahead you will be on the Dh.2 project when you start it.

I also agree with Des that the WnW engine is fine and shows so little that it will be fine...especially with the skills you have shown painting the Taurus rendition of same.

HTH,
Michael

PS Isn't it a little worrisome that the Taurus engine is that much too big? All I've heard is positive things about Taurus and WnW so, who goofed?

PPS Considering all you put into the Taurus engine, I would imagine that the realization that it didn't fit was a real family parts shrinker......

[Pgtaylorart]

Thanks for your replies and suggestions. It seems like the best option is to use the engine that came with the Pup kit. My streak is now broken! I'm using an actual WNWs part! Nooo!   But it's true, not much will be seen beneath the cowl anyway, and hopefully a good paint job will do the trick.

I am a bit confused about the fit issues. I even tried it in my WNWs Fokker E.III cowl and it was too big. Yes, I know it is a U.I in the Fokker, but it's pretty much the same as the gnome. I guess the Taurus U.I must be a bit smaller because I've seen some recent builds that use the Taurus in the Fokker with no problem.

Oh well, I just ordered an DH.2 from WNWs so my little engine will have a proper home.

Thanks,
George

PS: Michael, I heard that trombone blast that was used in bad 70's game shows (you know, when you pick the wrong door and there's a jack ass instead of a brand new Chrysler Cordoba) when I tried to fit thie engine.

[Verbeek]

Maybe a nice diorama with the engine out, they working on it?

[uncletony]

I dunno, I'd stick to plan A and make it work. Aren't you going to leave some of the fabric off anyway? How about fitting half of a cowl? Make it out of sheet metal using the kit part as a form. Should be able to jiggery-pokery make it all fit...

[Pgtaylorart]

I dunno, I'd stick to plan A and make it work. Aren't you going to leave some of the fabric off anyway? How about fitting half of a cowl? Make it out of sheet metal using the kit part as a form. Should be able to jiggery-pokery make it all fit...

Hmmm, half a cowl.. That's an interesting idea. The engine is grossly oversized, but if it all looks like it's in some state of repair and construction then it may not be noticeable. Now I'll have to build a diorama to justify it all.

George

[Pgtaylorart]

I agree with Lucasz's goal of true to scale models, and his quality speaks for itself. But the WNW cowl is almost 2.5mm in diameter too small on the outer dimension. There would be no wall left if I thinned the cowl.

Since I'm essentially scratch building my model anyway, I can slightly adjust the fuse and cowl to make it fit, it's just going to take a bit of work to scratch a nice cowl in metal. Oh well, this is something I'd like to try anyway, as long as the cowl doesn't end up looking oversized for a Pup. Maybe this is just the wrong engine for this airplane?

Thanks for the responses,
George

[ALBATROS1234]

its an ongoing problem in 1/48 too. me personally i would rather have the engine a hair under scale then have to trim of the nice rocker details so the peg will fit the square hole. i would rather it look and fit great rather than be exactly true to scale of the original item. whos going to know unless they are another modeller with calipers.

[Pgtaylorart]

its an ongoing problem in 1/48 too. me personally i would rather have the engine a hair under scale then have to trim of the nice rocker details so the peg will fit the square hole. i would rather it look and fit great rather than be exactly true to scale of the original item. whos going to know unless they are another modeller with calipers.

You make a good point, Scott. All models have to make compromises here and there to account for tolerances and material thicknesses. Ultimately, as true to scale as we try to be, it's the overall effect that makes or breaks a model.

[Ian from Doncaster]

I am not sure that it would be a big problem (for me) if the engine in a 1:32 model actually looked like 1:30 (for example) in order to allow for cowling thickness.

It is my opinion that if you have an excellent after market engine, which then does not fit, use it on a DH2 - as others have suggested.

By the way, George, that engine is far too good to be hidden in a Pup cowl..

[ALBATROS1234]

so use the underscale (wnw) engine instead of cutting off the rocker assemblies,almost exactly what i said. the thing is if they made the cowl to correct scale thickness it would be like tissue paper. if it was that thin (exact scale) you could fit the properly scaled aftermarket engine which is a mm too big. me personally,i would love if there were resin engines that had nice detail that the company took the time to make sure it would fit the kit rather than cause the headaches we hear over and over on build log threads. my opinion of course, but i know i am not alone. it would seem theres room for people who want parts to fit their kits and people who want to cut the details off of their expensive engines and spend a day scraping and sanding the cowls to jam in the engines. just my humble thoughts,which unfortunately i have had over and over.

[ALBATROS1234]

i apologize if i sounded snippy but i just went thru months back this with my roden fokker dr.1. i built the vector engine and i was so happy with the way it looked with the nice rocker/cyl details. of course when i went to fit it it was a no go. i sanded and scraped the cowl,test fit,repeat,repeat repeat. no matter what i did i could not get it to fit without being cocked,also i like to leave my engines to spin in sync with the prop. i ended up getting an aviattic cowl, which was better but it still just couldnt make it without sitting crooked. i ended up getting frustrated and putting it on the side until i figure out if i want to just use the kit engine(which would make the entire exercise pointless) or cut off 3 to 4 rockers and glue the engine stationary to show some of the nice looking engine. a problem that would have been solved if there was an am resin engine that was slightly not to true scale. i dont know what else to say. i have a handful of resin engines in 1/32 and 1/48 and with all the money spent i end up usually detailing the orig kit engines rather than use the nice ones i bought for that purpose.

[Pgtaylorart]

i apologize if i sounded snippy but i just went thru months back this with my roden fokker dr.1. i built the vector engine and i was so happy with the way it looked with the nice rocker/cyl details. of course when i went to fit it it was a no go. i sanded and scraped the cowl,test fit,repeat,repeat repeat. no matter what i did i could not get it to fit without being cocked,also i like to leave my engines to spin in sync with the prop. i ended up getting an aviattic cowl, which was better but it still just couldnt make it without sitting crooked. i ended up getting frustrated and putting it on the side until i figure out if i want to just use the kit engine(which would make the entire exercise pointless) or cut off 3 to 4 rockers and glue the engine stationary to show some of the nice looking engine. a problem that would have been solved if there was an am resin engine that was slightly not to true scale. i dont know what else to say. i have a handful of resin engines in 1/32 and 1/48 and with all the money spent i end up usually detailing the orig kit engines rather than use the nice ones i bought for that purpose.

Yeah, I know I'm flip flopping on this, Scott. Sorry if I sounded like I was just repeating what you had said. I was agreeing with you. It's just a bit frustrating as you know, to have the nice Taurus engine but have to compromise. No big deal in the end really, as has been pointed out, the engine will be mostly covered so the WNW engine should be fine.

I have a lot more work to do before I even need to install the engine. I'll figure something out by then.

Thanks again for all the input. I really appreciate it.
George