Author Topic: Scratchbuilt 1/144 Q-Class Zeppelin. Plastic, Putty and (3D) Printing.  (Read 27300 times)

Offline MoFo

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Re: Scratchbuilt 1/144 Q-Class Zeppelin. Plastic, Putty and (3D) Printing.
« Reply #90 on: August 23, 2015, 03:46:20 AM »
As to the ribs - my method is gluing stretched sprue on the wing surface and then applying a thick coat of Gunze base white.

I had considered that, or using some .4mm tape, but in 1/144 its probably overscale and I decided I could save some time + a potential screwup by just smoothing the wings out instead.  Current plan is to paint the wings with a white primer coat, mark out the ribs with pencil lines, then lightly spray over with colour coats.  The pencil will hopefully show through (subtly) to give an impression of wing rib detail without looking like a cattle grid.

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keeping the ribs aligned is relatively easy.

You would think so, and yet Valom's scribing disagrees.  ;)

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wish I hadn't read this right after breakfast.

Yeah.  We as modellers tend to romanticize our subjects and focus on knights of the air and the chivalry of the duel, entirely ignoring the fact that war is a nasty, ugly endeavor.  That quote is from the Danish Wikipedia page, and I thought its harshness was really effective at putting things in perspective and bringing the whole project back down to reality.

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PS You do know I was only kidding about the 1/32 build, right

You were?  Darn, and here I thought I'd found the *perfect* basis for your scratchbuild:



/jk...  this would only work for a 1/48 Zepp; it isn't anywhere NEAR large enough for 1/32!  :o

Michael Scarborough

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Re: Scratchbuilt 1/144 Q-Class Zeppelin. Plastic, Putty and (3D) Printing.
« Reply #91 on: August 23, 2015, 04:04:24 AM »
Yes, it is, after all, war that we are talking about. Putrefying is one of those words that works especially well to give one the feeling in the gut.

This is an exciting build to follow, that's for sure.

Offline MoFo

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Re: Scratchbuilt 1/144 Q-Class Zeppelin. Plastic, Putty and (3D) Printing.
« Reply #92 on: August 24, 2015, 03:59:54 PM »
Hmmm...  kind of surprised nobody's commented on my drilling...

Anyway, onwards and upwards.

Turns out the Pup in question (N6430) was actually an Admiralty type 9901, which means conversion.  I took the opportunity to make a few jigs and templates as well.  Up top are a couple of wing alignment jigs, which will also let me set the fuselage as well.  In the middle is a wing diagram, to mark off rib locations, ailerons, fold lines and gun slot.  Bottom left is a jig to align the landing gear; bottom middle are some guides for the struts and bottom right shows the gun slot on its own:



That done, the first order of business was to carve out the slot for the gun - some RNAS Pups had a modified gun mounting with a slot in the upper wing so that tripod-mounted gun could be fired vertically.  After marking the edges off, it was a fairly simple matter to carve out the hole using a Gunze chisel.  Less easy...  notice that the wing doesn't really fit my drawing, which was pulled directly from the scale drawings in the Pup Datafile.  The kit wing is wrong, but fixing it could open a whole can of worms, so I'll probably just live with it.  This also highlights the wonky rib lines and if you look carefully, you'll see that not even the cutout is the right size...



Next order of business: fixing the instrument panel.  The kit part looks terrible.  It'd be better with a smooth piece of plastic + decal instruments, but Valom weren't that generous.  So, I measured up the kit part (2.5 x 3mm), sketched it out in illustrator and printed a bunch of copies - with delicate work like this, it's good to have some backups.  Next I flooded the paper with thin CA, which gives it a hard, sort of plasticky texture, sort of like thin styrene sheet (a technique learned from the great Rato Marczak). 



The various bezels were carefully drilled out, then the panel trimmed from the sheet.  And then it vanished, so I had to do it again.  :(  THIS time I glued the panel to some .010" styrene sheet, leaving a sizable tab to increase visibility, then tucked it safely in the zip loc baggie with the decals.  Hopefully the revised panel is a bit of an improvement over the kit part:



Next up, I cut away the raised bulge over the lower wing mount.  It's a standard item in many WWI kits, but I felt it would push the floor up too high - the fuselage is only a few mm high to begin with, so I need all the room I can get.  Then I CAed some .2mm monofilament to the sidewalls, to represent the framing.  It's not perfect, but it should add a nice, subtle detail.  Unfortunately, it's a bugger to photograph  (funny thing about 'invisible line'...)  I'd just like to remind you that a.) this picture is WAY bigger than the actual part, b.) it looks much better in person and c.) it'll be fixed by the time it gets primered.  Ahem.



Finally, I cut a replacement floor out of .005" sheet stock.  Again, the kit floor is too thick.  It's also WAY too wide - see that panel line on the right side?  I've already trimmed that much off the left side, just to see if it'd be enough.  It wasn't.  Not even close.  Kind of ridiculous having a 5mm wide part be 2mm too wide.



Next order of business: load up the airbrush and get some paint on the cockpit.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2018, 05:41:46 AM by MoFo »

Offline Pgtaylorart

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Re: Scratchbuilt 1/144 Q-Class Zeppelin. Plastic, Putty and (3D) Printing.
« Reply #93 on: August 24, 2015, 04:10:08 PM »
You are certifiably crazy, MoFo! You know that, right? :o  Your Pup is going to be more detailed than a lot of 1/72 models!

George

Offline MoFo

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Re: Scratchbuilt 1/144 Q-Class Zeppelin. Plastic, Putty and (3D) Printing.
« Reply #94 on: September 05, 2015, 05:42:28 PM »
More updates.

(gondolas are just test fit, obvs.  Also, note the Pup for scale)



Shading has been done on the balloon.  The top section was masked off and sprayed with a thinned-out mixture of the ivory base to lighten it up, simulating the looser weave up top to allow gas to escape.  Simple and straightforward. I briefly considered using some fine mesh or pantyhose as a mask, to give a 'woven' texture, but decided it probably wasn't worth the hassle, and would likely look overscale.  So, just paint.

The sides were then masked off to simulate the darker, reinforced fabric.  This was less straightforward.  I originally started by adding 2mm wide strips of paper over the panels to simulate the fabric strips visible here, then oversprayed the area with an ink and future mix.  This... failed.  The Future soaked into the paper, it ran, it was blotchy and the edges were too hard.  Luckily it stripped off easily with Windex/Windowlene.  Attempt #2, I ditched the paper and used a mix of paints to get a darker look... which I didn't like; so I tried another mix, which I also didn't like once applied; then some Tamiya smoke, which looked too dark, followed by more paint, which looked meh, followed - finally - by a streaky coat of Humbrol 71. 

The net result actually looks good.  All the thin, tint-ey layers add a bit of translucency to it, and the blotchy Humbrol gives it a weathered, natrual look which I quite like.  A bit touch and go for a minute, though.  :(



I also rigged the rudders.  Simple job with some .1mm monofilament, pre-coloured with a Sharpie.  Fun fact: each control surface uses a single length of monofilament; it's just wound 'round and around.  :)

Also, also, I finalized the base.  I think I mentioned above, but originally I had hoped to have it supported by just a couple  pairs of 1.5mm hypo tubes, running through the gondola.  With all the weight of the putty and paint, and with raising it up off the base (I had originally planned to have it 'grounded'), there was no way that was going to work.  Plan B was to use a length of carbon fiber tubing as the main brace in the middle - it's nice and rigid, but will flex rather than bend under strain, plus being black, it's unobtrusive.  Plus, the thought of mounting such an archaic form of aircraft on a high tech material makes me giggle.  The balloon isn't perfectly balanced, however, so I'll still need supports in the nose and tail just to keep it from pitching.  All this had to be done before I could start adding the gondolas and scaffolding.

Final update on the balloon - I had a good modelling friend drop by with some much-needed accoutrements last week:



Bit of sanding and a bit of gloss, and it'll be ready for the markings.  :D  I'll probably run the rigging on the fins first, though.

The first order of business, though, is figuring out how to paint the gondolas.

The card model I'm basing this on has the gondolas in overall doped linen colour.  The Hippo kit from a few years back had NMF gondolas.  While the Datafile on the R-Classe Zepps suggests they were overall grey.  Hmmm...  Now, the actual gondolas were made up from a metal lower half, with fabric uppers and roof.  Basically, everything from the corrugations on the sides down was metal; everything above the corrugations was fabric.  Photos suggest a uniform colour, but it's inconclusive as to just what that colour was.

*Personally*...  I have a hard time imagining the Germans painting the metal parts CDL.  There are plenty of German aircraft with CDL fabric and either painted grey or are metal... metal... but I can't think of a single example where they painted the metal to look like CDL.  The only thing that comes close are the night bombers that had metal areas painted to match the lozenge pattern.  The Hippo kit has tons of problems so I wouldn't stake my life on it, and the gondolas in pictures don't seem very shiny.  So I'm leaning towards overall grey.  If nothing else, it'll be a nice contrast compared to the balloon.

----

I've also made some progress on the Pup.



First up, the cockpit got a coat of paint, then a couple of extra details for the instrument panel made from some brass rod.  The instruments were also picked out with black and white paint.



Next up, because this particular Pup had a tripod-mounted, jacket-less Lewis gun, I had to scratch a gun (you'll recall, the kit part looks terrible, and was just a jacketed barrel anyway).  I lopped the barrel off of one of my printed Spandaus, glued a length of .2mm and .3mm brass rod together inside a length of 1mm tube, then grafted this onto the Spandau body.  Not exactly accurate, but good enough for the purpose.  The brass 'arrow' beneath the modified gun will actually become the tripod mount.

The fuselage was glued up, lower wing and tailplanes attached and it was on to the jig:



Normally I'm pretty cavalier about adding upper wings, but normally I'm dealing with kits that have SOME sort of positive fit.  The Valom kit has tiny, crude, PE struts that (maybe?) fit into vague dimples.  It was really obvious that it would be a hassle, so I decided to make a jig to hold both wings securely in place while I added the struts.  The templates were as mentioned above.  They were spray-mounted on some styrene sheet, then cut out and hot-glued to a piece of MDF, using LEGOs to set the spacing and alignment.  Incidentally, I went with hot glue because it'd set quickly (no need to clamp it for hours) and be slightly flexible, allowing me to squeeze the plane in and out.

And it worked great.  Actually installing the struts, however, not so much.  Turns out, two of the interplane struts were slightly too long, while everything else was too short by at least 1/2mm.  My first attempt (yeah...) was with epoxy, as I wanted something more robust than CA to take the knocks of construction.  I eventually managed to get everything in place, but when the glue cured and I started trying to trim away the excess, the struts just popped right out.  Not exactly a great bond.

Frustrated, I knocked the rest of the struts out, scraped off the rest of the epoxy, and resigned myself to plan B.  I wanted a secure, robust locating pin, and that meant I had to make it myself.  So out with the soldering iron and .2mm brass rod.  :(



It's not a perfect job.  I know it's not a perfect job.  But these things are tiny, and they're going to get brush painted, and they'll be buried between the wings of a tiny aircraft that will be overshadowed by a much larger build, so, screw it, it's good enough.



Seriously, did I mention these are tiny?  It'll do!

And with some alignment pins added, construction was a whole lot faster, easier and more solid.



I do have some excess wire to lop off, but it's an acceptable trade-off.  Besides, I'll have to touch up the wings after rigging anyway.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2018, 05:46:59 AM by MoFo »

Offline radio

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Re: Scratchbuilt 1/144 Q-Class Zeppelin. Plastic, Putty and (3D) Printing.
« Reply #95 on: September 05, 2015, 09:09:59 PM »
Exellent work, MoFo.
Cheers
Martin

Offline Des

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Re: Scratchbuilt 1/144 Q-Class Zeppelin. Plastic, Putty and (3D) Printing.
« Reply #96 on: September 05, 2015, 09:17:08 PM »
You have done an exceptional job with this incredible project, the work you are doing on the Pup is absolutely amazing.

Des.
Late Founder of ww1aircraftmodels.com and forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com

Offline RAGIII

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Re: Scratchbuilt 1/144 Q-Class Zeppelin. Plastic, Putty and (3D) Printing.
« Reply #97 on: September 05, 2015, 10:31:56 PM »
Your work continues to be amazing! This is such a large project in such a small scale! The Pup is also a terrific piece of detailing in a tiny scale!
RAGIII
"A man has to know his limitations": Harry Callahan

"Don't slop it on" Lynda Geisler

Offline Pgtaylorart

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Re: Scratchbuilt 1/144 Q-Class Zeppelin. Plastic, Putty and (3D) Printing.
« Reply #98 on: September 06, 2015, 12:13:29 AM »
Wow! Your work on both models is incredible! I enjoy reading the detailed account of your build with all the trials and errors and finally the success! Very helpful and informative.

George

Offline IanB

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Re: Scratchbuilt 1/144 Q-Class Zeppelin. Plastic, Putty and (3D) Printing.
« Reply #99 on: September 06, 2015, 12:19:26 AM »
What can I say....the paintwork on the Zepp looks fantastic, and the detail on the Pup is extraordinary! I think I'd have just made new wings with styrene sheet but kudos for correcting the kit parts!

Ian

Offline MoFo

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Re: Scratchbuilt 1/144 Q-Class Zeppelin. Plastic, Putty and (3D) Printing.
« Reply #100 on: September 06, 2015, 06:52:51 AM »
Hmmm...  going nuts trying to decide on a gondola colour.  About the only conclusion I *have* reached is that I don't think they were CDL. (sorry Thorsten)

This looks NMF to me:

(O Class, first flight 8 March 1915)

While this looks more like grey - it doesn't seem to have a metallic sheen to it:

(Q Class; L24, first flight 20 May 1916)

My Zepp is L23, first flight 8 April 1916, so it's the Navy ship immediately preceding the aircraft in the second picture (there were two Army Zepps built in between), so it's likely to be more like the latter rather than the former, but...  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Guess it's time to flip a coin.  :D


Offline uncletony

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Re: Scratchbuilt 1/144 Q-Class Zeppelin. Plastic, Putty and (3D) Printing.
« Reply #101 on: September 06, 2015, 06:57:16 AM »

FWIW (probably not much) the gondola at Le Bourget is grey IIRC... (took some photos of it when I was there but I'm not sure any of them came out very well)

Online lcarroll

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Re: Scratchbuilt 1/144 Q-Class Zeppelin. Plastic, Putty and (3D) Printing.
« Reply #102 on: September 06, 2015, 11:27:15 AM »
MoFo,
    It's been a while since I checked on this Thread, Wow!! Great work here  and a lot of really inspired improvisation. This will be a tremendously impressive display when finished. Where on earth are you going to "stable" this Beauty?!? ???
Cheers,
Lance

Offline Beto

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Re: Scratchbuilt 1/144 Q-Class Zeppelin. Plastic, Putty and (3D) Printing.
« Reply #103 on: September 06, 2015, 12:13:09 PM »
Since all the surviving exaples are grey, I would go for it, even if it does'nt match the rest of the colour scheme.

Offline MoFo

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Re: Scratchbuilt 1/144 Q-Class Zeppelin. Plastic, Putty and (3D) Printing.
« Reply #104 on: September 07, 2015, 09:18:56 AM »
Where on earth are you going to "stable" this Beauty?!? ???

Errr... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Actually, that's one of the reasons I've designed it to be removeable from the base - I can either wall mount it, like a marlin, or hang it from a ceiling.  (apart from the weight, I think it would look somewhat odd, hanging from the ceiling, still attached to the base :D)  But exactly where?  I haven't really figured that out, yet.  Glue first, ask questions later!

Since all the surviving exaples are grey, I would go for it, even if it does'nt match the rest of the colour scheme.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I've decided.  It seems to make the most sense to me, in terms of surviving examples and general practices, plus it should give a bit more visual interest.

On a more tedious note, I did the math last night.  I'm going to need at LEAST 150 feet of monofilament to rig the tail.  :o It looks kind of complicated, but it's actually a pretty simple pattern - there are six anchor points on the balloon that run to six anchor points on each tail fin.  So the first anchor on the balloon runs to each of the stations on the fins, then the second anchor runs to each station, etc. etc.  x6 anchors.  x2 sides.  x4 fins.  288 individual lines.  0 chance I'm going to sharpie all that filament!  :(