Subjects the 'other' manufacturers could try kitting?

[Bluesfan]

Any suggestions for kit subjects 'the others' - Special Hobby, Roden, Alley Cat, Planet et al - could usefully consider? The question is prompted by seeing the Bristol M1.C being kitted twice already. Both no doubt great kits, but even so...  I don't know whether this is worth a poll like the WNW one, but I feel there must be some potential kits which Wingnut will probably never do, and yet which still have some interest for modellers. Aircraft types with an interesting history, or with a variety of colourful schemes.

For starters, here are some ideas, for kits I'd like to see, which on current form we are unlikely to see winging their way out of New Zealand:

- SPAD XII  (several good aces' schemes for this one)
- Vickers FB.5   (historic machine, surely)
- Morane L   (important type, but WNW haven't shown too much interest in early aircraft)
- Martinsyde Buzzard  (appeared in a variety of colours postwar... and looks very cool IMHO)
- Oeffag 153  (someone's GOT to do this one! beats me why WNW are apparently disinterested)
- Lohner L  (full of character, and we will surely want this one if as I expect Someone does the Macchi M.5)

Loads more, but I can see my personal enthusiasms already getting in the way of commercial calculations.

In reality, I realise that many of those other kitmakers see little commercial gain to be had from a field dominated by WNW. I confess that I never thought Wingnut would bring out a DH.9, in fact I could have sworn that they'd said at one point that they wouldn't. And now here we are, with a fabulous kit of the type. Even so, maybe we could encourage other manufacturers to think that there are some subjects which modellers might go for. Would love to hear what others think.

Mark

[petrov27]

I think there are a fair number of subjects other kit manufacturers could do, though I have heard modelers now say they want "nothing but WNW" for their kits. For example I have suggested to several folks that the Roden/Encore Fokker DrI is a good kit yet just get told they will just wait for WNW to someday do it.

With that kind of feedback, if I were a kit manufacturer I would probably stay away from WWI subjects....

That being said, many of those subjects you list are not terribly likely to be done by WNW any time soon so would be good candidates for maybe a Special Hobby to do (scratching my head with their choice to do the M1.C - I am sure it will be nice but it is already available and seems a poor decision?)

[coyotemagic]

Since you mentioned Martinsyde, Mark, I've got to place a request for the Elephant.  Karaya promised one in 1/48 scale years ago which never materialized.  It's an interesting bus, both in appearance and service history.  Although I'd prefer one in 1/48 scale, I would certainly buy a 1/32 scale offering.  An FK8 and a Dolphin would also be nice.
Cheers,
Bud

[Bluesfan]

Interesting comments, guys. Totally understand you, Petrov; I recognise many modellers think that way, although it's not what I'm in it for. Which is the history and the amazingness of these aircraft, and as a modeller, a kind of masochistic taste for problem solving. I guess that's why Roden kits dominate my stash For the record, amongst the 1:32 kits, I also have waiting a Special Hobby, an Encore, and a couple of Wingnuts planes.

Anyway, I accept your dark comment about other manufacturers staying away, it's blunt reality. Nevertheless, I posted in a spirit of optimism!

Hey Bud, an FK.8 yes! I just forgot when I posted before. As for the Dolphin, I want one of those for sure, but I expect Wingnuts to do it sometime, especially with that new reproduction around. I was one of those who voted for it in that poll. As for an Elephant, I agree, it'd be a good choice for one of the smaller manufacturers.

There's another point of course, which is that there's nothing to stop us having a go at a scratch build. I'm hoping my confidence will get there in a year or so, in fact I'm already pulling together a few bits and pieces for one of those I mentioned, the Morane L. Though I still think it merits a lovingly crafted bells-and-whistles kit.

Mark

[Des]

I can quite easily understand the point that is being made here, this topic has been raised many times in the past on various forums all with the same result, it is not profitable to compete with Wingnuts. Bear in mind though that we are only talkng 1:32 scale, the other scales are well catered for as far as WW1 aircraft models, but the big scale modelers are the ones being targeted at the moment.

I wrote to Vladimir, the head of Roden last year asking the same question, his response was that they do not have any plans to release any new WW1 aircraft kits in 1:32 scale in the foreseeable future. They have a pretty good range of 1:32 scale kits already available but like most other kits on the market they are not a patch on the brilliance of Wingnuts not just in quality but price as well. It would be financial suicide for a company to embark on a range of WW1 aircraft subjects in 1:32 scale, not unless they can produce a better kit at a better price than Wingnuts.

There are literally hundreds of WW1 aircraft that we would all like to see released as kits, but realistically we all know that no company would be silly enough to spend huge amounts of money tooling up for the sale of half a dozen obscure aircraft kits to please the desires of half a dozen modelers. Selecting the right aircraft to produce as a kit takes a lot of planning and research, is there going to be enough sales to cover production costs and maybe make a little profit. I have seen limited run kits, only 1000 units, released to the market and here it is three years later and they are still selling the kits, less than 1000 sales in three years is not what you would call running out the door.

As you know, I have built six scratch built early aircraft (pre war) models simply because I like these early planes and I also know that they will probably never be kitted in 1:32 scale, there would not be a market for them, this type of early aeroplane has a very small niche market and only appeals to very few modelers.

So, to answer your original question, no, no company will venture into WW1 1:32 scale aircraft kits unless they can be assured of certain sales, the Bristol being released by Special Hobby is a bold move especially since the Alley Cat resin kit is extremely good, the only advantage might be the price difference of injection moulded over resin. Bear in mind though that there are quite a few cottage industries around the world all working on and producing various accessories and some are even venturing into full kit manufacturing, these are the guys we need to support if we want to see obscure aircraft types.

Des.

[uncletony]

I agree with all of Des' comments above.

However-- there is change afoot and I think reason for great optimism for an ever more expanding offering of kits in the not distant future. The buzz word "3D Printing" doesn't even begin to describe how the economics of small scale manufacturing are about to change, indeed already are changing in many sectors. I think we are seeing the tip of the iceberg with the Gaspatch. The new reality will be that tooling for thousands or even hundreds of copies is not necessary; scale will be whatever you like as well (within limits) It will require skilled 3D artists with the passion for the subject.

[Bluesfan]

Absolutely Des! I honestly wasn't wanting to go over old ground, as far as the overall  market is concerned I know what the score is vis-a-vis Wingnuts.
What I was trying to do, probably not expressing myself well enough, was think up a few potential kit subjects for those smaller manufacturers.
I realise that any non-WNW 1/32 kits we are lucky enough to see in the future, are likely to be short-run kits, and much more likely to be resin.
I feel there are one or two types which offer a window of opportunity to those manufacturers, and eg. the Bristol M1.C is exactly the sort of subject I mean, and hey presto we've had two of them.

Anyway, of course I'm addressing the person who is inspiring me to consider some scratch building, and from whom I'm currently trying to pick up some necessary skills

Mark,

Yes Bo, I forgot that factor completely - totally agree, 3D printing should be a game changer.

[Des]

You are quite correct Mark, there are many subjects that could be manufactured by "smaller" companies and released as very limited run kits. I know of three new 1:32 scale kits of WW1 aircraft that will be released "soon", these will be coming from very small cottage industries so prices will be high, our support will ensure any future releases.

Bo, you have made an excellent point, 3D printing has only just tipped its toes in the modeling waters, Gaspatch is a classic example with their turnbuckles and machine guns. The potential for 3D printed complete kits is very real, but at the moment would be very cost prohibitive, and slow. As time marches on technology will improve and the 3D printing process will become more affordable, easier and will produce excellent results. There will be a huge market for 3D artists in the very near future.

Des.

[Dave W]

I agree with all of the comments in this thread and especially endorse Des' remarks. The commercial reality is that WW1 is not an inherently "commercial" subject, 100th anniversaries notwithstanding, and although we all hope Wingnuts will kit our favorite WW1 subject, it's equally true that other mainstream kit companies will be daunted by the WNW phenomenon, price and our expectations of what all 1/32 WW1 kits should be like.

The small cottage industries will doubtless venture into some esoteric areas but as Des says, prices will be high- are we prepared to pay ?

Sadly Roden has shown little interest in returning to 1/32 WW1 subjects although in 48th Eduard is issuing something for each year marking the centenary of WW1. A new tooled Siemens Schuckert D.111 or IV is this year's plus a stripdown DH.2.

The Blue Max line of 48th kits is getting a revival as are some of the classic Inpact/ Pyro/ Lindberg pre-WW1 models .

Irrespective of the various manufacturers in 1/32 scale I suspect only Wingnuts can be relied on for new subjects.

A mystery to me is Airfix in the UK. The company was a forerunner in 1/72 WW1 kits back in the 50s/ 60s but has been silent ever since. A 1/48th line of WW1 subjects from Airfix would be a real treat.

Dave Wilson
Gold Coast
Australia

[mike in calif]

...As would some further ventures in the vehicle market.
 and yes, I'd really like to see a high quality 1/32 jeep.. OR 1/4ton utility truck, (so as not to pay a fee.)

[Berman]

Lone Star Models was supposed to release the early and late versions of 1/48th scale Felixstowe F.2a two months ago but work on WWII era kts has delayed things. A little prodding from forum members might help Mike West move things along a bit faster. He is also planning a Gotha G.1 and some other WWI kits in 1/48th scale plus a 1/32nd scale Curtiss JN-4.

[mike in calif]

Mike is also doing a series of resin 'pits for the old Hase  1930s biplanes; he is completing a backdate for the Bf2-c1 to an F-11 Goshawk as well. Resin bits also include the Monogram F3f3 and F9 Sparrowhawk as well. Not WWI, but bipes that need some love as well.
 Was there a rumor that there would be an I/M Felixstowe in 1/48 from one of the big boys?

[Checkers67]

If the other manufactures are not interesed in big scall WWI aircraft how bout a conversions kits. First on my list is any Oeffag Albatros. These birds have color as do their drivers.
Steve in Rochester, Minnesota

[ALBATROS1234]

i am afraid that bo touched on the future. which i think will be a serious modeller buys a 3-d printer then downloads the parts program. a few hours later the parts,sprue free and flash free will be there ready to be painted and assembled like a resin kit with ca glue. i am sure that the big styrene manufacturers will still make kits, using 3-d tech to make there masters but for us the limited few we will be on the fringes as always. but just think how profitable it will be when a modelling company only has to do 3-d renderings and prepare them for download. very little risk and overhead ensures many subjects that havent been kitted will for us to print parts at home one day. no need to make big metal molds , no need for a big hitech injection machine and a crew to run it, box parts and accessories to be shipped everywhere and perhaps someday bought . maybe it will be the hobby shop that owns the 3-d printer and prints kits for sale. who knows. but to me i think the golden age of ww1 aero modelling is still 5 years or more away.

[Berman]

To mike in calif,
                       Rumours are just that until some actual evidence is shown. I do not think there will be an injection molded Felixstowe. There was a long circulated rumour about an Eduard or Italeri 1/48 Caproni bomber that never came to fruition. Extremely expensive tooling costs. Many modelers prefer styrene over resin kits( although it is just mainly a difference of the type of cement used) but fairly obscure aircraft will remain in the realm of the small cottage resin casters or not be made at all.
                     3D printers might be a possiblity in the future but there is still the labor cost of all the CAD work. The time spent producing accurate CAD files can sometimes exceed CNC machining time.