question on wrap seen on Mercedes intake manifold

[davecww1]

Hello,
I have a question concerning the Mercedes engine.  I have seen photos of some in Albatroses (or is it Albatrosen?) where the intake manifold appears to be wrapped in some kind of tape.  I'm just wondering if this is cloth like used on the header wrap of a muscle car, or maybe some kind of asbestos impregnated fabric?  And what would the correct color be for this, I'm figuring a light gray might be good.
Thanks
Dave

[uncletony]

Hello,
I have a question concerning the Mercedes engine.  I have seen photos of some in Albatroses (or is it Albatrosen?) where the intake manifold appears to be wrapped in some kind of tape.  I'm just wondering if this is cloth like used on the header wrap of a muscle car, or maybe some kind of asbestos impregnated fabric?  And what would the correct color be for this, I'm figuring a light gray might be good.
Thanks
Dave

The survivor NASM and AWM Albatros D.Va Mercedes D.IIIa intake manifolds were wrapped with asbestos cord which was then wrapped with black colored tape. A metal heat shield on each section completed the set up. This is what also appears in the British evaluation report of 1918. There may well have been other varieties, check your photos. I am somewhat dubious of the "ace bandage style'" wrap as often depicted and as seen on the modern TVAL replicas. However that is just a hunch on my part at this point, I may be completely wrong.

NASM motor:

[-Sören-]

Hello,
I have a question concerning the Mercedes engine.  I have seen photos of some in Albatroses (or is it Albatrosen?)

Albatros...der Albatros (single), die Albatros (two or more).

[davecww1]

Thanks Bo.  Here are a couple of pictures that I found on the web, but one appears to be a white tape wrap, perhaps this is one of the TVAL ones you refer to.  But the other one looks like an aluminum colored wire, perhaps this could be the asbestos wire before the black tape was applied?
Dave

[davecww1]

Here is the aluminum colored one.  Looks to be very old and unrestored, but perhaps this was done in the 1920's or 30's, we will never know for sure.
Dave

[uncletony]

Here is the aluminum colored one.  Looks to be very old and unrestored, but perhaps this was done in the 1920's or 30's, we will never know for sure.
Dave

I think that is one of Dave Watt's motors, I could be wrong, but anyway, without provenance you can't really draw any conclusions. That could be duct tape from the seventies.

 I looked at a ton of pictures when I was building mine, my conclusion was that cord wrapped with dark tape was the most likely appearance.  There may well have been variations, maybe even at the unit level.  But the metal shield & cord looks very "factory" to me.

 Of course the later jacketed manifolds did without the tape, so there's that option

these little mysteries are what makes this subject fun. No doubt someone knows way more than me and will share...

Cheers...

By the way I did mine with monofilament, looks the part to me...

[uncletony]

Thanks Bo.  Here are a couple of pictures that I found on the web, but one appears to be a white tape wrap, perhaps this is one of the TVAL ones you refer to.  But the other one looks like an aluminum colored wire, perhaps this could be the asbestos wire before the black tape was applied?
Dave

Yes that is a TVAL flying replica with an original restored motor. They (TVAL)  are quite meticulous but not perfect -- these are flying machines with human beings in them. They do make (very small) concessions to practicality & safety when absolutely necessary. Asbestos cord may not be something you can even get anymore.  Or it could be 100% correct and I haven't been looking in the right places...  I just don't see much period evidence for this style of heat wrap.

[uncletony]

So you had to make me go and look... 

OK, Roland D.VIa prototype, ace bandage style wrap:


Cord or tape? Or tape over cord? Hard to tell, but I thing the latter.:


partial heat shield, note oil lines from airpump are also wrapped:


I'm sticking with my conviction that this is the most common wrapping configuration found on D.Vs (thumbnail of air ministry report 1918 from windsock site):

[-Sören-]

Whats the reason for wrapping the manifolds?

[uncletony]

Insulation to prevent the mixture from icing I presume

[Des]

Here is a photo of the Australian War Memorial original Albatros engine, it clearly shows the wrapping around the intake manifold. This machine was restored quite a while ago so I imagine the tape would have been replaced as well, so the authenticity of the tape colour is questionable.

Des.

[uncletony]

Here is a photo of the Australian War Memorial Albatros engine, it clearly shows the wrapping around the intake manifold. This machine was restored quite a while ago so I imagine the tape would have been replaced as well, so the authenticity of the tape colour is questionable.

Interesting... there are pictures of this engine prior to restoration (windsock DFs and elsewhere) and the stuff looked like black tape wrapped cord  to me like the NASM D.Va etc. But what do I know... <shrug>

[uncletony]

The plot thickens: 

From AWM site, describing the 180 hp motor for the D.Va in the collection:

The aircraft was originally fitted with a 180 horse power Mercedes D.IIIa engine, serial no. BN 627 MN 43 MN 33842. This power plant is currently installed in the Pfalz D.XII 2600/18 (RELAWM04805). The engine currently fitted to the Albatros is BN 705 MN9 DIII Garantie BIS 12.8.18 MN 37108. The origins of this engine have not yet been established.

http://www.awm.gov.au/collection/RELAWM04806/

so I guess we have to go look at the Pfalz...

[kornbeef]

In the olde  Windsock Albatros Fighters Datafile it shows a few pics of the original Engine with its insulation which is only on the manifold branch pipes and looks like cord soaked in something resembling pitch.  No Metal shrouding and quite roughly applied so My guess is it was field applied. 

From pics I've seen there seems to be some variation between tape. cord and how it was finished. I suppose outside the production line you took what was available and used it. 

[Des]

The plot thickens: 

From AWM site, describing the 180 hp motor for the D.Va in the collection:

The aircraft was originally fitted with a 180 horse power Mercedes D.IIIa engine, serial no. BN 627 MN 43 MN 33842. This power plant is currently installed in the Pfalz D.XII 2600/18 (RELAWM04805). The engine currently fitted to the Albatros is BN 705 MN9 DIII Garantie BIS 12.8.18 MN 37108. The origins of this engine have not yet been established.

http://www.awm.gov.au/collection/RELAWM04806/

so I guess we have to go look at the Pfalz...

Again the plot thickens,

We know that the engine fitted to the AWM Albatros is incorrect, could it possibly be from the Halberstadt CL.II which was captured in mid-air by No. 3 squadron in June 1918, but unfortunately destroyed by fire whilst crated for transport outside the Melbourne Exhibition building in the early 1920's?

Des.