Pfalz D.IIIa - Help

[Vladimir Ziska]

Hi Guys,

I have question, this Pfalz D.IIIa is plausible? We can then reconstruct believe?

Thank for your help.

Cheers,

Vladimir

[Vladimir Ziska]

Hi Justin,

Yes, but WNW have wings with Lozenge.

Cheers,

Vladimir

[dr 1 ace]

.

Appearances change over time. (ie.: pictures of other documented a/c of pictures taken literally days apart) show drastic changes. DSA, Franks ,Bailey & Duiven agreed on the blue grey fuselages, but never say "never" and never say "...in all cases"; so build it the way you feel , and enjoy it, and perhaps some more definitive info will appear.

[coyotemagic]

Early Halberstadt Cl.II's had 5 color early daylight lozenge (what would soon become underside lozenge) on the upper surfaces, while the under sides were cdl, so I reckon anything is possible.  As to the top wing, it would make sense that it would be the standard Pfalz silber-grau.  Perhaps the lower wings were replacements.  I've never seen a photo of the tail, so I can't comment on that.  Like Ed said, model it as you wish.  Who's gonna prove you wrong?  As to blue, opposed to black or green, the fuselage seems close to the shade of the pilot's tunic in the only photo I've ever seen.  I would love to read Dan-San's notes on the subject.  He usually made sense.
Cheers,
Bud

[rowan broadbent]

I think that is also an option in the Wingnuts kit, although they prefer green rather than blue for the fuselage.

WNW have this as an option  on their excellent 30020 decal set. They certainly have it as a blue fuselage, not green (you're probably thinking of Hailer's one on the same sheet - green with Bavarian diamonds). They also say that Hans Böhning had at least one other Pfalz with similar markings (although pssibly the "HB" monogram was in the original silbergrau on that one), so that widens your scope considerably.....

Dear old Dan-San, how I miss him and his interpretive marking ideas; if you can get past some of his strongly fought "certainties", he always had the knack of making you really think about what the photos might have been showing.

[ALBATROS1234]

well said rowan.

[BLOWHARD]

About the blue, I think that comes from 79b being a Bavarian unit.  I'm reasonably sure that this unit did use blue as it's color, or at least a great many people seem to believe it did. 
In these pictures-
http://www.wingnutwings.com/ww/vE4729D0A/www/products/decals_and_accessories/30020/archive_photos/Pfalz%20D.IIIa%208170~17%20Hans%20Bohning%20-%20Jasta%2079b%20Pfalz%20D.IIIa%20of%20Hans%20Bohning%20%28AL0180-08%29.jpg
There certainly doesn't seem to be any printed fabric on the top wing.  I know there are several instances of D.IIIas with upper wings in silver and lower wings in printed fabric, and Bud is right about the CL.II covering.  No way to know for sure but I'm reasonably sure blue (of some sort and shade) is correct for the fuselage, light/white/silver upper wing top surface and printed fabric on the top of the lower wing is correct.  The rest?

More-
Even though Ronny depicts the top wing in printed fabric-
http://www.wingnutwings.com/ww/vE4729D0A/www/products/decals_and_accessories/30020/colour_schemes/Pfalz%20D.IIIa%208170~17,%20Hans%20Bohning,%20Jasta%2079b,%20June%201918%20%2817%20victories%29.jpg
I just don't see any evidence of it-
http://www.wingnutwings.com/ww/vE4729D0A/www/products/decals_and_accessories/30020/archive_photos/Pfalz%20D.IIIa%208170~17%20Hans%20Bohning%20-%20Jasta%2077b%20%28Im8~O%29.jpg

[Vladimir Ziska]

Hello Gentlemans,

thank you very much for all. I believe it is just the color of the wings. Could have Mr. Dan-San correct? Struck me that WNW has wings Lozenge. But reconstruction of the Dan-San offers a completely different wing. It could be a reconstruction of the other aircraft than the WNW decals?

Cheers,

Vladimir

[Zabu]

Hi Vladimir.

It's hard to have certainty of facts.

We've seen opinions for 3 colours, blue gray, Bavarian blue, green and i'll add another as its stated in Osprey AOA 71... black (as possible).  Pfalz 8170 was part of the penult batch of D.IIIa's  orders in Jan 1918 that had the serials 8000-8339/17 (Datafile 21).

Getting back to Gregs book from Osprey it is said that a number of aicraft from the final two batches of D.IIIa were covered in five colour camo on the wings and control surfaces being the 8170 one of them. I'm not saying that they were or weren't, just what is written, but i do agrre with BlowHard... evidance can't be seen at least in those pics.

My opinion and being the subject the 8170 Pfalz only, is that when watching DSA scheme we can see two things that are diferent from the real pics: the cover of the wheels are of diferent colours and the rudder matches the colour of the aicraft.
Although Greg is saying that the dark colour does not comply with the usual light shade of Bavarian blue, thus assuming the black colour as Bavarian Staffeln 13, 23 and 32 used for a while, if we take a closer look to the pic where Ltn. Hans is posing with his machine it is possible for us to compare the tiny bit of black just visible from the Balkenkreuz with the colour of the fuselage making the last one somewhat a lighter tone.
So i guess that Ronny just went with the best he could have from the data collected imho, and if it was me i would go with the lozenge wings and the bavarian blue just like Ronny did (but again, this is me).
Whatever the scheme that you decide to paint... no one can prove you wrong.

Cheers

[Vladimir Ziska]

Hi Zabu,

Thank you for your response. So it is possible that Dan San reconstruction has badly? I just liked the combination of the wings. Looking for a nice cover for a model. In the game there are still Pheon decals. Jasta 30

Cheers,

Vladimir

[coyotemagic]

It's equally possible he was right, Vladimir.  I say, go for it.  I, for one, like the scheme and I like controversial interpretations.
Cheers,
Bud

[Zabu]

Hi Vladimir.

At least DSA reconstruction it's controversial. He could be right, but as you can see for yourself i guess that he missed the interpretation of the wheels cover and rudder. Could he have missed the wings interpretation too? Hard to tell.

But if you like it you should do it. Someone did... here, from Rise of Flight:









Make it your way... and have fun Vladimir.