Hannover CL.III Questions...Lozenge solved....

[Allan31]

So, I know I have issues. To a certain extent, we all do here or else we wouldn't be happy assembling aircraft with rigging while the rest of the model building world is blithely assembling sheet metal aircraft with nary a thought to wood grain effects on propellers or noticing the difference between german and english turnbuckles. I have a high degree of confidence this is the correct group to ask my questions. Plenty of room in this rabbit hole.....

Recently, Mr. Cancian was kind enough to lead a new group build for half finished kits, found here: https://forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com/index.php?topic=14768.0

Not having anything not done, I figured I would have to pass on this GB. Coincidently, about the same time, for some reason I awoke one morning and realized I could not live another day without a 1/48 Hannover CL.III. As luck would have it, Evilbay delivered one complete for cheap with the fuselage started. I'm in for the GB !!....

I thought this well known aircraft would be a good subject to model.



Looking closely, I started noticing some interesting subtle details that I could find no explanations for.

For instance, why the difference in the top and bottom wing fabric covering? Why is the lozenge pattern on top so much more defined than the bottom? Newer replacement wings with the bottom more faded? Also, why do the rib tapes on the bottom wing appear darker than the top? If pink, I think they would photograph darker or they are a dark grey. I'm thinking older wings taped in pink on the bottom, newer replacement wings taped in grey on top?



The same is found on the port wings with some added, what looks like repairs to the top and bottom of the bottom wing.







The repaired top of the bottom wing rib tapes appear to be lozenge. On the top wing, why the two wider, different color tapes near the crosses? The rib tapes on both the top AND bottom appear darker than the lozenge fabric. Top of the top wing recovered? Inside wheel covers lower lozenge? Outside wheel covers upper lozenge?

The two diagonal stripes on the top wing, for the gunner to avoid the propeller? What color? Yellow? grey?



Lastly, clearly this is how the aircraft came to rest with the propeller around the tree.



The engine cover on the front directly above the propeller shaft is black or dark green. How and why then did this panel change when the aircraft was moved.





Ponder these and I look forward to reading your thoughts. 
Welcome to my rabbit hole. Honestly, how do I sleep at night?.....

[WD]

A great mystery Allan! I hope someone here can shed some light as I'm curious now too.

Warren

[NigelR]

Many German aircraft, especially two seaters, show quite a lot of extensive repair/refurbishment work. The Germans were short of materials and supplies, so would use whatever was to hand (regardless of the regulations). So in a case like this where you have photos to work from, I think any logical reasoning you can apply can't really be disputed!

[WD]

Recreating what's in the photos above will result in a very striking model IMHO. Like Nigel said, no one can say you're wrong.

Warren

[Flamingo]

Hi Allan,
that's what I think: the Germans replaced the upper panel and the Americans either took one from another Hannover or (more likely) repainted it to
(mis)match, or is the panel not secured propperly? Hey, they are filling her up!
Do you have the Schlachtflieger book? If not check your e-mail.

This machine has some more questions, it is probably not the victim of Rickenbacker and Chambers as usually told.


Greetings Joachim

[Allan31]

Thanks all.
Joechim, I was hoping you would jump in this rabbit hole.
Looking at these 2 photos.....





The tops of the lower wings being done in the "lower surface" lozenge? This may account for the darker rib tapes on top seen also on the bottom of the wings.



The Schlachtflieger book is purchased and is enroute to my house as we speak.

[atelier.brunt]

interesting details for sure!
What I find interesting too, is that the upper wing rib tapes where probably linen colored (light) but the pictures from the bottom indicate a dark rib tape used on the bottom side. This doesn't really make sense to me, usually (not always) the same rib tape material is used top and bottom. Purposefully applying a darker rib tape to the lighter colored (bottom) flugzeugstoff is very peculiar, when lighter linen tapes were already used on top. Definitely strange and thats what I love about every specific aircraft, its peculiarities.

Just to mention, this is a Hannover CL.IIIa, the CL.III had a Mercedes D.IIIa engine.

I own an original photo of a Hannover CL.III and it clearly shows light colored (linen) rib tapes on the top of the bottom wings.

Regarding the last post with the bottom wing top surface also in lower lighter flugzeugstoff, this actually could make sense and looks like it from the Photos when comparing. Top and bottom rip tapes on the lower wings same color except for the ?repairs?... but still doesnt explain to me why the underside of the top wings are in a darker rib tape color than the top side rib tapes. Or is this a light condition / photo specific illusion maybe?

[Allan31]

I can't speak highly enough for well rested eyes and a fresh cup of coffee.
After staring at these photos for days I finally saw the patterns I was looking for this morning.
The top of the top wing is clearly covered in 5 color lozenge mounted chord-wise.
I think I've discovered enough repeats in the top of the bottom wing to determine it is also covered in 5 color lozenge.





I've no idea why I couldn't "see" these before but the coffee I made was exceptionally tasty this morning so perhaps that had something to do with it.
I think the top of the bottom wing is older than the top, faded and ribbed in dark pink, the top being ribbed in newer linen and less faded.

The rib tapes by the crosses are wider and lighter on the top wing, perhaps light blue. Both are on wing ribs that connect to a hinge. I suspect there is a third wide tape hidden under the black paint of the cross.

THANKS EVERYONE who jumped in this rabbit hole with me, I really enjoyed your company and input.

[WD]

I love the solving of mysteries like this.

Warren

[Dirigible-Al]

Although doing the bottom wing tops different to the tops would look interesting you could always make it easy for yourself and build it like it was before the repairs were made. It would have once flown like that.
Alan.

[Allan31]

Al,
"Make it easy on yourself.." Do you not know me?...

[WD]

Al,
"Make it easy on yourself.." Do you not know me?...