Sopwith 1 1/2 Strutter ‘comic’ home defence fighter in 1/32

[SimonCornes]

As Aviattic are producing two after market resin cowls for the two seater kit, which cowl should be used for the ‘comic’ single seater?

[gary2seater]

The dreaded "check your references" is probably in order.  These Comic fighters were converted after the Strutters were removed from frontline units, so came from a variety of lots and manufacturers.  Datafiles 34 and 80 show photos of both decal options for the Roden kit but no discernable view of their cowling openings. Datafile 80 (p.27) identifies A6906 (#5) as originally a Hooper-built bomber (from the serial font or contract?) so that might help if you can establish a definite pattern of Hooper-built cowlings from other photos.  A6906 is interesting because it originally had the forward-firing Vickers gun and a rear comic cockpit (with no headrest) clearly making jams impossible to clear.  I love those kinds of imperfect design features!  This configuration is how A6906 was presented in the 1:48 scale Roden kit - I haven't seen the 1:32 instructions yet but assume it is the same. That particular plane was later further modified to carry a single Foster-mounted Lewis gun and a headrest.

I hope others can help here because I want to make A6906 with the Aviattic aftermarket.

[gary2seater]

PS - the box art shows A6906 in the later configuration, which you can probably get to easily with the parts for B762.

[gary2seater]

Upon further review (as our referees say in America) ... Datafile 80 p.24 image 48 shows a port side view of A6901, the first of the 100 Hooper-built bombers.  Light is seen through the port cowling opening, with a bridging segment seeming to occur at the bottom of the cowling.  The cowling is painted consistent with the camouflage.  I would say this is good evidence that A6901 had a symmetric, two opening, painted cowling.  Because A6906 is from the same original production lot and was likely completed at nearly the same time, it is probable that A6906 left Hooper with a similar cowling.

[SimonCornes]

Thank you for the insight Gary. I have both datafiles so I have a few weeks to read them again before I have to see Aviattic. I may contact Richard to try to establish if the cowling type was specific to manufacturer and the reason for either a single or two slots - cooling presumably but if necessary then why were the single slot cowls given larger slots with maybe a strip of metal riveted on if strength was an issue?

[SimonCornes]

Well I have my kit now and Roden have done the top decking with the headrest moulded in although only one of the options has the headrest - better if it was a separate part!
A6906 has the single Lewis and no mention of the original Vickers installation. Knowing that this is a Hooper built aeroplane I wonder who built the other one? The serial number is not in a range mentioned in either Windsock but I think that I need to read both books again to get back up to speed.I also know that some of the Comics didn't have the flaps fitted and some had either celluloid covering the inboard ribs on the lower wing to improve downward visibility but that might be a step too far!!

I also have a pair of the two seaters and my idea was to build one of them as a single seat bomber and I hope that at least one of the 3 might have a two slot cowl and one a single slot just to illustrate the variations!

All good fun!

[Davos522]

--SNIP--
A6906 has the single Lewis and no mention of the original Vickers installation. Knowing that this is a Hooper built aeroplane I wonder who built the other one? The serial number is not in a range mentioned in either Windsock but I think that I need to read both books again to get back up to speed.

Hi Simon, looking forward to this build! What's the other serial you're looking for, again? I've got some references that might help (being a bear of very little brain I get confused pretty easily these days  )

RE: the cowling, as I understand it the reinforcements weren't structural in the sense of strengthening the cowling or compensating for cutouts, they were to keep the retaining cables & turnbuckles from falling off. In Mick Davis's Sopwith book he wrote:

The overhung engine mounting offered very little support for the engine cowling and that component was in danger of detaching under vibration, with potentially catastrophic results. A simple Sopwith solution was patented (Patent 127847). The cowling ring that attached to the fuselage longerons was made of V section. The engine cowling had a V-shaped channel around its rear end, that engaged the cowling ring. A cable was then fitted into the recess and tensioned by use of a turnbuckle. This innovation was continued on the Pup, Triplane and Camel, but it was found that engine vibration could loosen the turnbuckle and so retaining clips had to be strapped across, to secure the cowling to the fuselage.

Interestingly enough, I was just reading an initial flight test report of a repro Triplane from the early 1990s where that very thing happened, the retaining cable worked loose and took off part of the sheet metal, fortunately the pilot/builder was able to set her down without further incident.

Dutch

[KiwiZac]

Interestingly enough, I was just reading an initial flight test report of a repro Triplane from the early 1990s where that very thing happened, the retaining cable worked loose and took off part of the sheet metal, fortunately the pilot/builder was able to set her down without further incident.

The same thing happened to a Sopwith Camel repro here in NZ at an airshow in 2001 - during a "dogfight" with a Dreidecker on its tail, very exciting timing for the spectators - and to Kermit Weeks' Sopwith Pup a few years ago!

[gary2seater]

B762 (#7) is a Frankenstein - rebuilt from available parts at the repair depot.  I think all the black B works numbers were RAF depot rebuilds but I might be wrong.  That makes any inference from the manufacturer's habits difficult. You really need a head-on photo for that one to get the cooling slots documented. 

A6906 (#5) is accurate with a headrest and a Foster mount in its later configuration so can be built as kitted based on your description.  I just like the look of that Vickers gun being two time zones away from the cockpit in A6906's earlier configuration!

[SimonCornes]

--SNIP--
A6906 has the single Lewis and no mention of the original Vickers installation. Knowing that this is a Hooper built aeroplane I wonder who built the other one? The serial number is not in a range mentioned in either Windsock but I think that I need to read both books again to get back up to speed.

Hi Simon, looking forward to this build! What's the other serial you're looking for, again? I've got some references that might help (being a bear of very little brain I get confused pretty easily these days  )

RE: the cowling, as I understand it the reinforcements weren't structural in the sense of strengthening the cowling or compensating for cutouts, they were to keep the retaining cables & turnbuckles from falling off. In Mick Davis's Sopwith book he wrote:

The overhung engine mounting offered very little support for the engine cowling and that component was in danger of detaching under vibration, with potentially catastrophic results. A simple Sopwith solution was patented (Patent 127847). The cowling ring that attached to the fuselage longerons was made of V section. The engine cowling had a V-shaped channel around its rear end, that engaged the cowling ring. A cable was then fitted into the recess and tensioned by use of a turnbuckle. This innovation was continued on the Pup, Triplane and Camel, but it was found that engine vibration could loosen the turnbuckle and so retaining clips had to be strapped across, to secure the cowling to the fuselage.

Interestingly enough, I was just reading an initial flight test report of a repro Triplane from the early 1990s where that very thing happened, the retaining cable worked loose and took off part of the sheet metal, fortunately the pilot/builder was able to set her down without further incident.

Dutch

Hi Dutch,
As has been mentioned later the other option is B762. In the 2 seater kit the serial options are 9407 (Sopwith build I think) and A995. I am also thinking of obtaining the Aviattic markings for 8286 because the red and white check forward fuselage! I don't know if Richard tells you what cowl you need in his decal instructions ? I actually emailed him last night about the question and I'm awaiting his reply.
Simon

[SimonCornes]

Interestingly enough, I was just reading an initial flight test report of a repro Triplane from the early 1990s where that very thing happened, the retaining cable worked loose and took off part of the sheet metal, fortunately the pilot/builder was able to set her down without further incident.

The same thing happened to a Sopwith Camel repro here in NZ at an airshow in 2001 - during a "dogfight" with a Dreidecker on its tail, very exciting timing for the spectators - and to Kermit Weeks' Sopwith Pup a few years ago!

Wow, he was lucky the cowl didn't take out the outboard strut!

[SimonCornes]

B762 (#7) is a Frankenstein - rebuilt from available parts at the repair depot.  I think all the black B works numbers were RAF depot rebuilds but I might be wrong.  That makes any inference from the manufacturer's habits difficult. You really need a head-on photo for that one to get the cooling slots documented. 

A6906 (#5) is accurate with a headrest and a Foster mount in its later configuration so can be built as kitted based on your description.  I just like the look of that Vickers gun being two time zones away from the cockpit in A6906's earlier configuration!

Thanks Gary, so a twin slot cowl for A6906 then. At least thats clarified one airframe!
Simon

[macsporran]

A6906 has the single Lewis and no mention of the original Vickers installation.

In fact the colour illustration on the side of the Roden Comic box shows the vickers gun in situ on A6906 - but no refs etc about mounting it. As we know photos show it there or not at different times.

Interesting that you like this oddball arrangement, I'm the opposite, I'm afraid  - too odd for me! - and I'm sure it'd be laughed off the table by my pals at the club!!!! Each to his own

(If you want a single seat bomber I would place money on that being the next release. The egg-box structure and bombs are already included in both kits, just need a new top decking - doubt we'll get an optional cowling though!)
Sandy

[gary2seater]

So, no 1:32 SPAD S.A-2/4 for you, Sandy?  I guess as an engineer I am intrigued by the fielding of a bad idea as much as a good one, and how the end users make the best of it either way.  Isn't our attraction to this era in part because it is quixotic?  I read The Zeppelin Fighters earlier this year - what a waste of resources on both sides.  I gotta model that!

Gary

[SimonCornes]

A6906 has the single Lewis and no mention of the original Vickers installation.

In fact the colour illustration on the side of the Roden Comic box shows the vickers gun in situ on A6906 - but no refs etc about mounting it. As we know photos show it there or not at different times.

Interesting that you like this oddball arrangement, I'm the opposite, I'm afraid  - too odd for me! - and I'm sure it'd be laughed off the table by my pals at the club!!!! Each to his own

(If you want a single seat bomber I would place money on that being the next release. The egg-box structure and bombs are already included in both kits, just need a new top decking - doubt we'll get an optional cowling though!)
Sandy

You could well be right Sandy but equally they might decide to do a French boxing. As for a single seater kit, well I think the rear cockpit was covered in fabric as you can see the line of stringers in that area in rear 3/4 photos so o reckons thats easy enough to replicate. You have to watch the bomb bay though because these are horizontally suspended unlike the two seat bomber with vertical stowage between the cockpits. And there are two sets of bomb doors with the single seater but all looks pretty do-able, at least I intend to try with one of my two seaters. Of course another problem is with airframes where the lower wings had celluloid (or similar) over the 3 inboard ribs - brass soars required maybe? That little kit has a lot of fun potential!