Author Topic: Udet's Fokker D.VII F  (Read 4115 times)

Offline DaddyO

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Udet's Fokker D.VII F
« on: March 10, 2023, 06:07:20 PM »
Morning all
I'd like to call upon the collective mind of the forum about this aircraft and the colour of it's top wing.

As one of several projects currently on the bench I'm building the last DVII flown by Udet from the 1/72 Eduard triple boxing released a few years ago. Rather than the ever popular candy striped machine I rather fancied the later one flown into action in June 1918. This one had the more powerful engine with upper cowls removed for cooling which I think is an interesting detail.

The colour details show that this one had a red painted upper wing (possibly in preparation to adding the white striping?) The other sources I have all show and describe the replacement OAW upper wing that was fitted with the usual lozenge pattern (Cross and Cockade article by Dave Roberts 2003, wingnut painting instructions.)

My question is any evidence for the red wing?

Thanks
Paul
There cannot be a crisis today, my schedule is full

Offline WD

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Re: Udet's Fokker D.VII F
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2023, 01:52:54 AM »
I'm interested in this one as well Paul, so I'd like to know as well.

Warren

Offline Borsos

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Re: Udet's Fokker D.VII F
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2023, 03:05:34 AM »
In Fokker Aircraft of WWI: Volume 5 | 1918 Designs Part 2 – D.VII & D.VIII there are some interesting pages on Udets Fokkers. As it’s the latest publication on the subject, it could be of some use for you. Due to copyright reasons of course I can’t post these here, but if you like I can send you photos of these pages via E-Mail. There’s no prohibition sharing such a tiny amount of pages privately as far as I know.
Andreas
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Barbusse.
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Remarque.

Offline DaddyO

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Re: Udet's Fokker D.VII F
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2023, 04:16:54 AM »
Many thanks Andreas  ;D
I'll drop you a pm with the details

Paul
There cannot be a crisis today, my schedule is full

Offline Borsos

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Re: Udet's Fokker D.VII F
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2023, 06:16:17 PM »
Many thanks Andreas  ;D
I'll drop you a pm with the details

Paul

E-Mail sent  :)
"Deux armées aux prises, c'est une grande armée qui se suicide."
Barbusse.
"Ein Berg in Deutschland kann doch einen Berg in Frankreich nicht beleidigen. Oder ein Fluß oder ein Wald oder ein Weizenfeld."
Remarque.

Offline DaddyO

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Re: Udet's Fokker D.VII F
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2023, 07:05:40 PM »
Many thanks Andreas  ;D
I'll drop you a pm with the details

Paul

E-Mail sent  :)

Many thanks for taking the trouble to copy and send that over Andreas. It is indeed a fascinating read and confirms the Du Doch scheme is likely to have been red and white stripesrather than black and white (as sometimes interpreted) I was really interested to see a couple of points made -

i) Diary extract by Lt Preuss which describes his encounter with Udet flying a red aircraft which performed much better than his own which is likely to have been the D VIIF on an evaluation flight since it was after Udet had bailed out of his earlier aircraft.

ii) The suggestion, (which makes perfect sense to me), that flight leaders would have had both main and reserve aircraft painted in similar colours to make identification easier (which also supports the idea of red and white stripes rather than black and white to avoid confusion with Hans Kirschstein's DVII flown at a similar time)

Overall clear as mud  ;D

Still I think there is enough information to imply (if not confirm) that a red and possibly a red and white striped wing may have been fitted to the DVIIF . . . .

Cheers
Paul
There cannot be a crisis today, my schedule is full

Offline Borsos

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Re: Udet's Fokker D.VII F
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2023, 04:29:38 AM »
No worries, Paul!
I am keen on seeing your interpretation of Udets D. VIIs!
Andreas
"Deux armées aux prises, c'est une grande armée qui se suicide."
Barbusse.
"Ein Berg in Deutschland kann doch einen Berg in Frankreich nicht beleidigen. Oder ein Fluß oder ein Wald oder ein Weizenfeld."
Remarque.

Offline Rob_Owens

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Re: Udet's Fokker D.VII F
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2023, 02:45:44 PM »
Blue Max Airmen Vol 15 P. 159 D.VIIF 4253/18 (text & profile) “. . .upper wing . . .was a replacement component from an OAW-built D.VII. . . upper surface of the top wing was also painted red.”

Offline DaddyO

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Re: Udet's Fokker D.VII F
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2023, 05:53:45 PM »
Blue Max Airmen Vol 15 P. 159 D.VIIF 4253/18 (text & profile) “. . .upper wing . . .was a replacement component from an OAW-built D.VII. . . upper surface of the top wing was also painted red.”

Thanks Rob :)
There cannot be a crisis today, my schedule is full

Offline Rob_Owens

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Re: Udet's Fokker D.VII F
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2023, 02:51:36 AM »
In addition the author (and Greg VanWyngarden) of BMA Vol 15 provide some convincing (to me, at least) evidence that the wing stripes on Ddn!! were black/white rather than red/white.

Offline KiwiZac

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Re: Udet's Fokker D.VII F
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2023, 05:43:55 AM »
Dare I ask...
Untitled by Zac Yates, on Flickr
Zac in NZ

Online rhwinter

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Re: Udet's Fokker D.VII F
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2023, 09:13:32 PM »
I say: There was no upper wing at all on „Du doch nicht!“! Or at least no paint on it. All fake… 😁

Offline DaddyO

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Re: Udet's Fokker D.VII F
« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2023, 10:05:57 PM »
Dare I ask...
Untitled by Zac Yates, on Flickr

I'll pencil a second version in the build schedule just for you Zac  ;D

I say: There was no upper wing at all on „Du doch nicht!“! Or at least no paint on it. All fake… 😁

Ah yes I'd heard that rumour about the single winged DVII (apparently this came about when Anthony Fokker wanted to do another version of his V8 prototype and he'd convinced Platz that 5 wings were giving insufficient climb so he wanted to add 2 more to the front and a further 1 to the back. This led to a brief shortage of DVII upper wings at the factory and consequently a few were sent to the squadrons without the upper wing, but still using the struts so one could be added later if required)  :o ;)

Right Nurse tells me I'm due for my next round of meds so I'll have to catch up later  ::)

Paul
There cannot be a crisis today, my schedule is full

Offline KiwiZac

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Re: Udet's Fokker D.VII F
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2023, 06:31:58 AM »
I'll pencil a second version in the build schedule just for you Zac  ;D
It just makes sense to me, that way no-one can say you're wrong!  ;)

Right Nurse tells me I'm due for my next round of meds
See? I knew you were the right person for the job!
Zac in NZ

Online rhwinter

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Re: Udet's Fokker D.VII F
« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2023, 07:14:52 AM »
Dare I ask...
Untitled by Zac Yates, on Flickr

I'll pencil a second version in the build schedule just for you Zac  ;D

I say: There was no upper wing at all on „Du doch nicht!“! Or at least no paint on it. All fake… 😁

Ah yes I'd heard that rumour about the single winged DVII (apparently this came about when Anthony Fokker wanted to do another version of his V8 prototype and he'd convinced Platz that 5 wings were giving insufficient climb so he wanted to add 2 more to the front and a further 1 to the back. This led to a brief shortage of DVII upper wings at the factory and consequently a few were sent to the squadrons without the upper wing, but still using the struts so one could be added later if required)  :o ;)

Right Nurse tells me I'm due for my next round of meds so I'll have to catch up later  ::)

Paul

😂😂😂