Nungesser's Nieuport XVII #1895 - 12th May 1917

[Gutzer]

I have the CSM 1/32 Nieuport XVII Late on order, intending to build Nungesser's aircraft as of 12th May 1917.

The tricolor stripes were added to that aircraft (#1895 No 65 Escadrille) and his successive aircraft (also numbered #1895), according to the story (see references below), by Nungesser after being shot at by an RFC pilot, who he then had to shoot down. 

This apparently happened on the 12th May (?) 1917 after doing the dare to meet a German Albatross pilot for a duel over Douai, France, only to be trounced by six other German aircraft.  He shot down two of the aircraft over Savy, France (a long way south west of Douai...), and the rest fled.  After that encounter with the RFC aircraft on that day the stripes were added.  Reference is Clark, A. (2012). Aces High: The War in the Air over the Western Front 1914-18.  See below for Google books extract.  Note however that this reference does not mention the RFC encounter on 12th May...  I don't know if the RFC incident has actual reference.

According to CMS artwork in the manual, the Nieuport #1895 as of November 1916 has the tricolor stripes on the top wing, (I believe they were also added to the top of the fuselage and bottom wings at some point after the 12 May 1917 encounters(?) - perhaps just on later Nieuports).  This depiction would then appear to be incorrect for 1916 and up to 12th May 1917 according to the above story...

I'm guessing that the tricolor stripes may have other origins, perhaps Nungesser, perhaps Escadrille, perhaps Armée de l'Air itself.  Anyone know?




The other question is Nungesser's aircraft in May 1917 was a new personal Nieuport XVII, fitted with a Clerget (130hp?).  See also above reference. 

So, I assume this was a 'Late' version, but I don't know what the differences are to the early. 

The kit apparently has a Le Rhone 110hp engine, and the reference states Nungesser's new aircraft in May 1917 as having a Clerget. What to do?  Was Nungesser's aircraft at the time in May 1917 unique in having a Clerget (if it had one)?

https://forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com/index.php?topic=10037.0

Any thoughts?

https://books.google.com.au/books?id=jzLzSrxnHHYC&pg=PT124&lpg=PT124&dq=nungesser+12+may+1917&source=bl&ots=xK9LGuQlr5&sig=ACfU3U1ovIQbAr7BAYgyXqLPg-27h3lcTg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwib6p_CjeD2AhUPzDgGHSRgCqQQ6AF6BAgtEAM#v=onepage&q=nungesser%2012%20may%201917&f=false

http://www.fiddlersgreen.net/models/aircraft/Nieuport-17.html

http://www.theaerodrome.com/aces/france/nungesser.php

[RAGIII]

I will need to double check My references but I "Think" the Nieuport 17 with clerget was a 17 BIS ( rounded Fuselage)  One would need to use a 24 fuselage and CSM wings. A New cowling would also be needed. This is all dependent on  if My Memory is correct 
RAGIII

PS: I just checked the Windsock Nieuport Fighters Special volume 2 and it was indeed a Nieuport 17 bis and carried the number N 1895 as usual 

[Gutzer]

Thanks RAGIII!

That means I will need to do the earlier #1895 from 1916.

I guess it also makes sense for CSM to do a bis given they already have the moulds.

Peter

[RAGIII]

Thanks RAGIII!

That means I will need to do the earlier #1895 from 1916.

I guess it also makes sense for CSM to do a bis given they already have the moulds.

Peter

Just for the record , the CSM "Late" kit markings for Nungesser are totally accurate and I would assume can be done without the stripes on the upper wing to represent an earlier rendition. Nungesser flew Multiple Nieuports including an "Early" version in camo that he took with him while He attached Himself to the Lafayette Escadrille, July 1916. In addition to the 17bis ( it acquired Nieuport 24 type ailerons at some point), He flew one of the few Nieuport 25s'. Have fun with your build!
RAGIII
PS: I could be wrong but I think it would take an entirely "New" fuselage and interior mold to do the 17bis...as well as the cowling and engine 

[Gutzer]

Thanks again RAGIII

Do you have any information on a 17 Late without stripes that Nungesser flew?

I did purchase Windsock Nieuport Vol 1 with the DR.1 volume on the Meng build.  Haven’t received it yet.  I may get vol 2 as well.

[masterKamera]

Hello,  this popped up in a search and I have to ask this,

the illustration linked above, shows the top wing of this plane to be solid, ie no window.

Yet the Eduard 1/72 scale dual combo kit illustration show his plane to have the cutout window on the top wing.  Is either one more correct?

[Rob_Owens]

Thanks again RAGIII

Do you have any information on a 17 Late without stripes that Nungesser flew?

Aeronaut French Aces of WWI Volume 2 has profile of Nie. 17 N1571 (silver finish with cone de penetration, NO wing/fuselage stripes & NO white surround on heart insignia).