Author Topic: Border and Wingnuts go legal!  (Read 960 times)

Offline jamieg

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Re: Border and Wingnuts go legal!
« Reply #15 on: November 18, 2021, 03:46:53 AM »
This is a very standard situation in injection moulding.  I know; I worked in the industry. Someone designs a product and commissions a mould to be made from another company. The mould is machined but not yet paid for. The designer goes out of business and fails to complete the transaction. The mould will eventually become the property of the mould making company, but the rights to manufacture and sell the product still reside with the designer or some company they have assigned those rights to. Generally, mould makers are not also injection moulders so it is unlikely they would ever have held those rights. So buying the moulds does not automatically confer the right to produce and sell Lancasters on Border. That right resides with WNW or whomever they choose. Border would have been smarter to have made an offer to Jackson as Meng apparently did.

Offline Borsos

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Re: Border and Wingnuts go legal!
« Reply #16 on: November 18, 2021, 04:09:49 AM »
Where do you know that the situation is the same like you described?  ;)
We simply don’t know enough details to blame Border or anybody else. I for myself am going to sit back and watch this drama unfold.
Ah, yes, I recently bought the HK Models Lancaster.
In 1:48 scale.
My cabinet isn’t big enough for 1:32.  :)

Andreas
"Deux armées aux prises, c'est une grande armée qui se suicide."
Barbusse.
"Ein Berg in Deutschland kann doch einen Berg in Frankreich nicht beleidigen. Oder ein Fluß oder ein Wald oder ein Weizenfeld."
Remarque.

Offline jamieg

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Re: Border and Wingnuts go legal!
« Reply #17 on: November 18, 2021, 10:18:46 AM »
Read Border's statemeent on the matter. They are the ones who have informed us as to how this has developed, and in the process, pretty much admitted to being in the wrong. They bought and improved the moulds which WNW abandoned, but nowhere do they say they have legitimately acquired the rights to produce the model.

Offline macsporran

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Re: Border and Wingnuts go legal!
« Reply #18 on: November 18, 2021, 06:43:01 PM »
Given PJ's long-time interest, investment, maybe even obsession, with the Dambusters story, movie rights, etc perhaps it's not surprising that of all the unfulfilled WNW projects the Lancaster has become contentious.

Even if the door was closed on any more WWI models, maybe he still harboured a hope that he might have brought the Lancaster to market himself at some future stage. (Perhaps a movie tie-in?)
But of course the mould makers ought to have been paid for their work so they didn't seek to recoup losses elsewhere.

Wonder how Hannants etc view the threatened embargo.
Sandy
« Last Edit: November 18, 2021, 07:13:07 PM by macsporran »

Offline Pup7309

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Re: Border and Wingnuts go legal!
« Reply #19 on: November 18, 2021, 10:22:22 PM »
Yes it’s still ‘watch this space’
To echo Dave it represents a sad end to what was supposed to be a crowning glory for WNW.
And do we mortals fully understand the decision to shut down? No. It still seems bizarre. Or why payments weren’t made ?
And what chance will the Handley Page have to come out?
‘Not all who wander are lost‘

Offline jamieg

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Re: Border and Wingnuts go legal!
« Reply #20 on: November 19, 2021, 12:34:51 AM »
With this in the air, there is an element of risk for any distributor outside of China. These will be very expensive kits, so I can't see companies jumping to buy large numbers of them with Jackson threatening legal action. Inside China, where laws may be different, distribution would likely not be affected. That would mean that people outside of China could probably still buy the kits direct from Chinese sellers, though there might be a risk of the kits being blocked for import with various national customs and excise folks. However, people with ethics might feel that Border is engaging in piracy and not want to deal with them on principle. I'm not interested in the kits at all, but I would be leery of buying one for that reason.

Offline KiwiZac

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Re: Border and Wingnuts go legal!
« Reply #21 on: November 20, 2021, 11:45:33 AM »
One has to bear in mind that as right around the time Wingnut Wings stopped producing, Sir Peter was dealing with major fraud cases involving the now-former head and chief pilot of The Vintage Aviator Limited Gene DeMarco, which have been ongoing for at least two years and are only now (maybe) nearing their end.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2021, 06:44:13 AM by KiwiZac »
"Actually, WWI planes can be well detailed because there isn't that much in the way of lots of bits."

Offline jamieg

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Re: Border and Wingnuts go legal!
« Reply #22 on: November 20, 2021, 12:38:05 PM »
We still don't have definitive information about what happened to cause Jackson to pull the plug. A contingent of speculators floated the notion that WNW decisions vis a vis what kits to produce caused them to fail and they've convinced themselves and a lot of other folk that they have it all figured out, but that does not explain why TVAL went down too. I think this had far more to do with what was happening in Jackson's world than it did with the actual operation of these companies. I think a whole pile of bad things happened all at about the same time, necessitating him abandoning some of his pet projects. Even rich people can find themselves in financial difficulties...

Offline KiwiZac

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Re: Border and Wingnuts go legal!
« Reply #23 on: November 23, 2021, 06:43:46 AM »
I think this had far more to do with what was happening in Jackson's world than it did with the actual operation of these companies.
My thoughts exactly.
"Actually, WWI planes can be well detailed because there isn't that much in the way of lots of bits."

Offline GHE

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Re: Border and Wingnuts go legal!
« Reply #24 on: November 24, 2021, 03:58:19 AM »
Hello,
Regarding the demise of WNW - well, there was no open-doors -policy.
If something runs into trouble you can't help that it happened BUT the way out of the mess might be quite different.
PJ inevitably must be aware of how much fun and pleasure he brought to modelers around the world.
As far as I know he never addressed his customers " Sorry, I know it is sad but at the moment we can't go on and I appreciate you as customers etc etc. " or just: thank you."
The overall behaviour and impression is strange.
Well hell, leave it to him , it is his duty to smooth out mistakes and to act responsible with regard to the conduct of his enterprises.
With regard to his loyal customers: he left without a word...
WNW is over, welcome to new projects!
LZeppelin rocks!