Hi All
Here’s a vexed subject for the Brains Trust
I’m currently looking at a couple of German WW1 float plane projects and that provoked a revisit to the Naval Hex debate
As most of us know, there aren’t too many people who actually know much about at all about this subject and that includes me ...
But here are my collected notes
Back in 2008, the following appeared on the Aerodrome site discussion Forum
As far as I know, none of the Hexagon decal sheets conform to the printed hexagon pattern or the specified ABB colors. There was only one printed Hexagon pattern used by the German Kreigsmarine. The colors specified in the ABB for painted Marine aircraft camouflage are very specific for where they were to be used, before the change and after the change. I recognize the arbitrary colors are prettier than the specified printed color of greyish blue, greyish violet and greyish brown. I have yet to see a model with these colors on the printed hexagons. THE ACTUAL HEXAGONS [sic] polygons] USED ON THE PRINTED FABRIC, WERE 200 x 155MM AND SLOPED 5 DEGREES ACROSS THE WIDTH OF THE FABRIC. The decal manufacturers use a true hexagons in light and dark blues, which are not correct.
You asked … How many types of Naval hex fabric were there, I've seen on this forum that only one type (often referred to as the "brown" pattern) existed, but also have seen evidence to support a second ("blue") variety ?
Many decal manufacturer's have and still do offer two types and Windsock Datafile No 55 makes reference to both.
Can so many researchers really be wrong ?
Again, sorry for asking, but I'm not convinced either way.
Chris
http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23026Dan San Abbott responded ...
I am glad you asked this question about the three color Naval hexagon fabric.
The German Naval Office, Reich Marine Amt (RMA) through it subordinate off SeeFlugzeug Versuchs-Kommando, (SVK) Seaplane Testing Command, had established a document titled Allgemeine Baubestimmungen für Seeflugzeug der Kaiserlichen Marine (AAB General requirements for of the Imperial Navy.) around the beginning of the war. It was the responsibility of the Naval Aircraft Inspectors in place at each factory watch and inspect the aircraft while built and to perform the parts inspection during the process of construction and on completion to perform the acceptance inspection and flight test.
On 3 April 1917, the SVK amended the AAB Document which gave the specific colours that all naval aircraft were to be painted. It required that :
1. The Black cross was to be standardised in form and location and was to be surrounded with 5 cm white border.
2. The Marine Nummer to be painted black and to painted on every part of the aircraft.
3. All surfaces when viewed from above, top of both wings, fuselage, tailplane and floats shall be painted in hexagons 15 cm on the side,30cm in diameter in grey-blue, grey-violet and grey-brown.
4. All surfaces viewed from the side, fuselage, rudder, and all struts willed painted in grey-blue.
5. All surface viewed from below will be painted light grey.
6. The under surfaces of the wings and tailplane will remain the natural color.
The words , shall and will are mandatory, is must be done.
in April 1918 the SVK issued an amendment to the AAB that introduced the three color printed fabric in grey-blue, grey-violet and grey-brown. The amendment required all the top surfaces of both wings, tailplane, top of fuselage and floats to be covered with the printed fabric. The sides of the fuselage, rudder floats anf all struts were to be painted grey-blue. The bottoms of the both wings, fuselage tailplane and floats will be painted light grey. As an option the undersides of both wings and tailplane could remain natural.
That is a summary of the AAB, and it does not list any other colors for the printed fabric. The light grey, blue and violet was a guess at what Peter Gray thought the colors were about 1960. The printed fabric came in only grey-blue, grey-violet and grey-brown. It is very specific, any other colors are wrong.
Blue skies,
Dan-San
I was most pleased when Peter M.Grosz sent a piece of 3 color German Naval printed fabric. First of all I was surprised with the three colors, Grey-blue (20D3); Grey-Violet (15D3) and Grey-brown (6E4).
The colors are quite dark with little contrast between the grey-blue and grey-violet, the grey-brown is dominant.
With the side and bottom colors, I was aided by a British Intelligence report in Bulgaria after the war. The side color was defined as "slate-grey" which is quite dark, which is 3F2 as well as 20F2, however 3F2 is an olive-grey. So I selected 20F2 this is much too dark and the RMA serial number would not be visible against this color, I then selected 20E3. Since then, even 20E3 is still too dark and the black serial number would not contrast with this color. finally I believe Greyish blue 20D3 would be more accurate and provides a contrast with black.
The under surface color is subjective as is the side color and is pale bluish-grey, 21B3. The under surfaces of the clear doped wings would approximates greyish-yellow, 4B3.
From photographs, I was able to determine the width of the fabric between seams, it was 1300 mm, the full width of the fabric is therefore, 1320mm plus or minus 10mm. The hexagons ARE NOT REGULAR HEXAGONS, but were 150mm wide by 200 mm long polygons and positioned in the width direction of the fabric. THE POLYGONS SLOPED 5 DEGREES ACROSS THE WIDTH OF THE FABRIC.
For more details, see "Over the Front, Vol.9,No.2 Summer 1994." It contains an article I wrote titled "The Hansa Brandenburg W 29 and German Naval Camouflage."
Blue skies,
Dan-San
Charles Hart (
[email protected]) WWI Modelling page
Fri, 12 Jan 1996 01:21:34 -0700
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Joey in Manila wrote:
>In my search through our mail archive I haven't come across any definitive info on German naval hex camo, although 4 & 5 color lozenge. Is satisfactorily covered.
This is a subject with less than satisfactory data to work from, in my opinion. Some initial responses to your query.
1) How wide was the cloth?
Perhaps 50-53 inches wide. There is only a single piece of this material which has been reported on in any detail. This is a rather large piece of Naval fabric belonging to Peter Grosz of Princeton N.J. Dan San Abbot described this fabric in World War One Aeroplanes issue #134. The piece in question does not provide evidence for bolt width due to the way it was cut, even though it is quite large.
2) How many colors, how were they arranged in the pattern, and what colors?
There are three colors on the fabric, a greyish blue, a greyish mauve and a greyish brown. If you look at a row of hexagons on the fabric, there is repetition of all three colors 1-2-3-1-2-3 in the row.
3) Was there only one hex design used or were there variations.
This is a matter of perhaps some dispute. There is some photographic evidence suggesting that there may have been two different sets or tones of colors used on this hexagon fabric. Some of this is seen in a piece of film that Pete Grosz found in the former East Germany showing deployment of HB W.12s from a seaplane base, some of the aircraft appear to have darker fabric than some of the others. Was this due to different fabrics ? Was this due to fading in the sun, the "lighter" fabric being older than the fresher "darker" fabric? Is there perhaps another explanation ? From the list ??
In a post a few months back Steve Hustad maintained some Marine A/C to have had their hex camouflage painted on. I think it would take critical study and particularly measurement of these questionable hexes to determine this. From the surviving fabric piece the hexagon dimensions are well known, sadly I don't have them in front of me now. Check tomorrow.
4) I've seen Steve Hustad's model (Lohner?) on the "images" page. Hexes in browns. What was this all about? Painted on or printed? [ Austro-Hungarian Aircraft are a separate subject altogether - my note in these square brackets]
I have a book at home on aircraft camo (printed in the U.K., don't have the name right now) which stated that hexes were 18 in. across the flats and had 1 pic. of a captured AEG photo-ed from above.
> This plane definitely has large hexes unlike those on naval a/c. Why ?
The similarity between the Marine hex camouflage and the scheme found on some AEG G-types is simply that they both used hexagons. The camouflage found on the AEG G-types was painted on the aircraft and employed four colors. Both of these features are pretty easy to determine from photographs of these machines. [ this was correctly depicted in the old Amercial/ American Griffon decals ]
Just recently the following appeared on the Aviattic site
https://www.aviattic.co.uk/132-german-naval-hex.html"..grey brown, grey blue, grey violet.."
That was the original official WW1 Idflieg directive and we've followed it!
Confirmed by Ray Rimmell to be a perfect match for a preserved sample shared with him and photographed by the great Peter Grosz.
My collection of notes ends here ...
Is there anything that's research based (not just speculation ) anyone can offer on this subject
I don’t have access to Cross & Cockade and the public debate seems to have fizzled out
Dan San Abbott (* may he rest in peace) looked like he had nailed the debate ( it’s hard to argue with Peter Grosz when he is said to have produced the sole surviving example of fabric ) that the lozenge was polygonal, not hexagonal and sloped at 5 degrees. But nonetheless ( and with all due respect) Dan San's thesis, to my way of thinking, is really hard to reconcile with most of the photographic evidence I have seen – Time and again I’m looking at photos of German naval types with airframes and wings covered with lozenge that appears to be truly hexagonal and those hexs are not sloped !
Most of those who have made a study of this subject will probably recall that picture of an Albatros W-4 being fished out of the drink by a crane. the picture is almost an "overhead" showing the airframe in plan-form ) I have deliberately chosen a Alb W-4 because it's example of an airframe and a type produced in significant numbers by a major manufacturer. The a/c is suspended in a nearly vertical attitude and has a busted upper wing but I see no evidence of slope in the fabric covering nor do I see that the shapes are polygonal … that’s just one example - there are many more.
That said, I do believe Dan San was right about there being only one set colours and that what he terms the “pretty” lighter shades of blue and grey that are still commonly seen in the currently available decals (excepting Aviattic’s most recent offering ) are actually wrong –The duller “ North Sea” shades are clearly more in line with the specifications laid down in the Allegemeine Baubestimmungen für Seeflugzeug der Kaiserlichen Marine so unless there’s some sensible (chemically based ) evidence of colour degradation (over time or as a result of exposure to wind and weather) that can be offered as a result of examination of the extant sample, it seems the brighter/ "prettier" shades should be written off as erroneous.
Looking forward to your thoughts …
David
