Author Topic: brown glaze on lozenge?  (Read 1396 times)

Offline ALBATROS1234

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brown glaze on lozenge?
« on: December 16, 2012, 04:16:20 PM »
last page of the wnw fokker dvii (oaw) is a photo of a piece of lozenge with what appears to be a brown glaze overpainted.this is the first ive ever heard this. not that i'm claiming to be an expert but ive been studying ww1 aircraft for 5 years and have been a member of a few of the top ww1 aero forums and have participated in many conversations with other modellers as well as some of the top guys in the field like the late dan san abott concerning printed fabric coverings. now to me this makes sense because i always noticed in period photos of lozenge covered craft that some of them had very low contrast on the coverings. i always assumed this was sun faded.  ive seen modellers try to simulate this effect by airbrushing light grey or painting other glazes or otherwise texture applications to the coverings. has anyone else heard of this until now? has it been documented somewhere else and i just missed it. it is very interesting to me especially with these new wnw kits. i want to get these details as close to reality as possible.

Offline GAJouette

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Re: brown glaze on lozenge?
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2012, 03:37:20 AM »
  Scott,
I wonder if what you're seeing isn't just an aged and somewhat darkened final clear overcoating? I've noticed in unrestored WW I era aircraft are often quite darkened with age. I'd suppose this could be years of a build up of grime and dust as well.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
" What Me Worry"

Offline ALBATROS1234

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Re: brown glaze on lozenge?
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2012, 04:05:13 PM »
this is the quote from the wnw instruction manual next to a color photo of a fabric sample:
   4 color lozenge fabric believed to have been salvaged from an early production oaw built fokker dvii shot down near marre france in oct. 1918. a transparent brown glaze has been painted over the vibrant dyed colours to tone them down(this is not simply age stained clear dope,it is brown)

this is why i was posting this is the first ive ever heard of this, like i said above i always thought the stuff was faded not glazed?

Offline ALBATROS1234

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Re: brown glaze on lozenge?
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2012, 07:16:17 AM »
looking at the photo that wnw provides it looks rather dark/opaque to be simply clear dope which has "browned" with age. i guess anything is possible though. i will have to see more evidence before i paint over my lozenge decals with" brown glaze"

Offline kornbeef

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Re: brown glaze on lozenge?
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2012, 09:43:00 AM »
According to the Fokker D.VII anthology it was quite a common practice to mute the fuselage at least with a coat of brown dope. If it was done to mute the camo or for some other reason I've no idea.

I imagine done at unit level or even personal choice.

Fading, like chipping isnt as common as we as modellers portray IMHO but to many it looks good.  Not that many machines survived long enough to fade I think.

WNW's Lozenge is quite garish and bright, so a coat of brown or fading would tone it down and bring it to a more scale look IMHO anyway

Just my take on things, purely personal.

Keith
Never too old to learn sumfink noo

Offline lcarroll

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Re: brown glaze on lozenge?
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2012, 01:20:07 PM »
RB,
    I agree completely with your "take" on the WNW Colours and general appearance; I intend to try the Norland stuff (faded) and, like my last build, will use Microsculpt over the remaining WNW Lozenge to tone it down.
Cheers,
Lance

Offline ALBATROS1234

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Re: brown glaze on lozenge?
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2012, 01:32:29 PM »
the new wnw 5 color loz(included w the dvii kits) is very light/pastel compared to their old stuff(in the lvg and pfalz kits) why did they change their lozenge? i dont know. i can say i like it even less than their earlier stuff.soooo i'm getting some db 5 color. which i consider to look by far the best. i will have to dig out my anthology and check out what albatros pub has to say. i googled "brown glaze on lozenge" and only got wnw instruction manuals and a review of the wnw fokker dvii by tom cleaver of modellingmadness.i just wanted to see if there was any other documentation on this. thanks guys.

Offline ALBATROS1234

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Re: brown glaze on lozenge?
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2012, 02:04:16 PM »
well its there. in the windsock fokker dvii anthology" brown glaze painted on lozenge to tone down colors. i guess we have to try to determine by photos if the contrast is very low on period photos than this could be the case.

WarrenD

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Re: brown glaze on lozenge?
« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2012, 02:23:53 AM »
And now you have to determine what shade of "brown".   ;)

Warren

Offline ALBATROS1234

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Re: brown glaze on lozenge?
« Reply #9 on: December 25, 2012, 02:03:57 PM »
there is a color photo of fokker dvii fabric with the brown glaze in the wnw fokker dvii instruction manual.