forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com
WW1 Aircraft Modeling => Under Construction => Topic started by: Fokker boy on December 01, 2014, 07:44:07 AM
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Owing to an absence of what I require to finish another 1:32 prop for our regional next year (and for some other reasons as well), I've decided instead to pursue the Roden Albatros D.III, in Jasta 17 markings. This will be done mostly OOB, but with some AM thrown at it, most notably a WNW Mercedes, Master Spandau's, Taurus and Barracuda engine dress up parts, and perhaps the Part P.E. set, though I don't really feel that's needed, as such.
Obligatory box shot. This kit (and a few others), were very generously gifted to me by a fellow forum member on a different site.
(http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy162/FokkerDrI/Albatros%20DVa/DIII/III001_zpsfbc5dc45.jpg)
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Fuselage halves have some nasty ejector pin marks that will have to be dealt with before I can begin painting the wood colors. Nothing that some Tamiya putty won't take care of though.
(http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy162/FokkerDrI/Albatros%20DVa/DIII/III0011_zpsd25202cf.jpg)
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The scheme I've tentatively chosen, though I have some wiggle room here.
(http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy162/FokkerDrI/Albatros%20DVa/DIII/Thescheme_zpsd71ea7a9.jpg)
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Before I realized what I had done, I assembled two sets of wheels. Instructions are somewhat vague here, but it appears that the smaller diameter set (on the right) are the correct ones.
(http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy162/FokkerDrI/Albatros%20DVa/DIII/wheels002_zpsed5c0ead.jpg)
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Kevin.
I'll be following your blog closely. I'm collecting bits for my build of the same kit (not 100% sure what profile yet)
Ref the wheels. Yes the bigger are OAW wheels. The smaller set are J-stahl wheels so are correct.
I don't believe it was a change carried on to the D.V/D.Va but the DII & D.III (OAW) had theses different circumference wheels with larger tyres.
A lot of the PE for the D.Va can be utilised on this too if you wish. Part of Poland set contains a lot of parts that look better in plastic IMHO but it does contain 1/4 turn fasteners and such things too.
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I didn't know your nom de plume Kev!
As I said on LSP, there's a Pheon set due with this in.
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Good info to have. Thanks, guys. And yea, Dave it's little old me. I've watched so many of your WWI models come to life, and have enjoyed each and every one.
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Interestingly enough, the scheme I've chosen above is supposed to be an OAW built machine, so I may well go with the bigger wheels. I have most of the the Albatos datafiles to help sort out differences where there are any, I just need to read them more.
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Interestingly enough, the scheme I've chosen above is supposed to be an OAW built machine, so I may well go with the bigger wheels. I have most of the the Albatos datafiles to help sort out differences where there are any, I just need to read them more.
Note different rudder shape on OAW machine from your kit; also radiator placement and dozens of little details that the Roden kit doesn't really acknowledge (nose panels are different etc)
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Well in that case, I may just build it in the OOB configuration, as I have no real desire to modify it any. (The judging at the regional events don't really take into account those types of issues anyway, so I'm covered there, thank goodness.)
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Yes as Bo said a myriad of differences some easy to do others not so.
Anyway who's to say the pilot didnt have a similarly marked machine before he got the OAW bird?.
Keith
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Hello to all,
Very interesting start. I follow this build.
Best regards.
Alain.
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Anyway, if you are interested, this book is a good primer on the development of the Alb D.III and the differences between those built by the three manufacturers:
http://www.amazon.com/Albatros-D-III-Johannisthal-variants-Vanguard/dp/1782003711/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1417429171&sr=1-1&keywords=albatros+d.iii
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Interestingly enough, the scheme I've chosen above is supposed to be an OAW built machine, so I may well go with the bigger wheels. I have most of the the Albatos datafiles to help sort out differences where there are any, I just need to read them more.
Note different rudder shape on OAW machine from your kit; also radiator placement and dozens of little details that the Roden kit doesn't really acknowledge (nose panels are different etc)
In Rodens defense they do make all of the "Major changes" necessary in their OAW version of the DIII, kit # 608. The only company to do so to date! 8)
RAGIII
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I agree totally Rick. new fuselage halves, cowls/cockpit opening undercarriage and upper wing to note a few.
I still think all things considered the Roden Albies stand up well all things considered
(I'm not biased at all of course... Me an Albiefanatic...ummmm. ;D)
Keith
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Anyway, if you are interested, this book is a good primer on the development of the Alb D.III and the differences between those built by the three manufacturers:
http://www.amazon.com/Albatros-D-III-Johannisthal-variants-Vanguard/dp/1782003711/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1417429171&sr=1-1&keywords=albatros+d.iii
Yep, I have that one too, just never got around to actually reading it yet, but now I will, so thanks for that.
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In Rodens defense they do make all of the "Major changes" necessary in their OAW version of the DIII, kit # 608. The only company to do so to date! 8)
RAGIII
[/quote]
Interesting. I had no idea they even did an OAW machine. Since this kit was gifted to me, I'll just go ahead and build it as is; no need to spend more cash if it's not absolutely necessary, and for me, it's not.
Thanks much, fellas,
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After reflecting on this a bit, I may just choose a different scheme, (if I can find one I like). I suspect after a while It might start bothering me to know that I was building the wrong version of the aircraft. I'll hunt through my references again, and see if anything stands out. I'll also have a look at the Pheon set Dave pointed out; perhaps there's something cool there.
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One option of course would be the Werner Voss machine, but that one's been done to death already, so I'll keep looking I guess.
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One option of course would be the Werner Voss machine, but that one's been done to death already, so I'll keep looking I guess.
I don't know Kevin, done to death or not the Voss Machine is a cool scheme ;D Finding the decals could be problematic although I think Life Like may have the scheme in production. Just be sure to choose an early DIII with central radiator like the kits. Bleu Maus is one (I think).
RAGIII
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I agree totally Rick. new fuselage halves, cowls/cockpit opening undercarriage and upper wing to note a few.
I still think all things considered the Roden Albies stand up well all things considered
(I'm not biased at all of course... Me an Albiefanatic...ummmm. ;D)
Keith
Ummm, I am right there with you...
RAGIII
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It's your lucky lucky day Kev. I have those Voss decals spare. I'll chuck then in too.
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You're a good man. Dave. I'll figure out some way of reciprocity.
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This one looks very doable, but there are a few others that I'm also looking at as well.
(http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy162/FokkerDrI/Albatros%20DVa/DIII/TheDIIIScheme2_zpsc69a8ee6.jpg)
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(http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy162/FokkerDrI/Albatros%20DVa/DIII/TheDIIIScheme2_zpsc69a8ee6.jpg)
Nice choice...
Ltn Gerhard Bassenge, Jasta Boelcke 2219/16 :)
Spinner was definitely black, wheel covers too, probably/maybe. Note the stripe is on the upper deck as well -- it's shown on your profile but easy to miss -- very narrow. The Jasta B black stripe in front of the white tail is noticeably wider than depicted in your profile.
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Dave doesn't think the stripe is really on the upper deck, having looked at the photo again, I tend to agree -- anyway, I think he has it nailed here:
(http://www.bravobravoaviation.com/Prints/Albatros%20D.I%20and%20D.II/DD-029%20-%20Albatros%20D.III%20D.2219-16,%20Jasta%202%20Boelcke,%20Ltn%20Gerhard%20Bassenge,%201917.jpg)
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That's a great looking rendition, Bo. While we're on the subject,... dark green, light green and venetian red wing uppers, with all three colors on each lower wing uppers as well? That's what the Osprey book says for Johannisthal machines anyway. The illustration on the cover (Voss), is what I'm referring to.
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That's a great looking rendition, Bo. While we're on the subject,... dark green, light green and venetian red wing uppers, with all three colors on each lower wing uppers as well? That's what the Osprey book says for Johannisthal machines anyway. The illustration on the cover (Voss), is what I'm referring to.
Wait, I'm confused -- are you talking about Bassenge's plane (2219/16, above, or Voss's D.III with the Hearts?
Bassenge's plane is thought to have the three tone on upper wing surfaces (top and bottom).
Voss' machine is a can of worms --most people agree the upper wing was replaced as the radiator starts off in the center and later appears offset like on OAW built machines. There is a whole chapter of Voss's plane in the Miller D.III book cited earlier. Paolo did a great Roden 1/32 build of Voss's D.III about a year or so ago here and received a lot of great input as to the probable markings. It's worth reading the log:
http://forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com/index.php?topic=1836.0
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Well, generally speaking, I was asking about the generic D.III colors, that's all. Most illustrations of D.III's that I've seen, seem to be these three colors (uppers), with the actual color shades/hues interpreted by the artist or modeler. I just want to make sure that I reflect some sense of reality.
Mostly I'm curious about the bottom wing uppers, since they never show in plan view drawings. Were just two, or all three colors used there, (per wing)?
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I think this is pretty typical for d.iii three color upper surfaces, but as they say, check your references :)
(http://wwi-cookup.com/albatros/diii/15-25.jpg)
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Excellent. Thank you. For the most part that's what I'm seeing as well, but with the greens sometimes reversed. Thanks a bunch. I now have a better understanding of how I want to approach this. In fact, I'll be painting the upper wing sometime today.
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The voss decals are mid Atlantic right now!
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Great, Dave. Thanks again, I appreciate your help.
Here are two of the three upper wing colors I've tentatively chosen. Once lightened during the weathering process, they should look OK I think.
(http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy162/FokkerDrI/Albatros%20DVa/DIII/iiiwing001_zpsb13b12ef.jpg)
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Tires/wheels given base coats, and wheel covers scratched up a bit with a colored pencil. (Mud splatters will be added later.)
(http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy162/FokkerDrI/Albatros%20DVa/DIII/iiiwheels001a_zps6095038f.jpg)
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I am good with your color choices. Remember that although the Drawings Bo posted show HARD demarcations between the colors it is generally acknowledged that the color separation was a tight SOFT sprayed edge.
RAGIII
PS nice start!
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Very nice your start.
Martin
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Thanks, fellas, and I will be going with a sprayed edge.
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Dave doesn't think the stripe is really on the upper deck, having looked at the photo again, I tend to agree -- anyway, I think he has it nailed here:
(http://www.bravobravoaviation.com/Prints/Albatros%20D.I%20and%20D.II/DD-029%20-%20Albatros%20D.III%20D.2219-16,%20Jasta%202%20Boelcke,%20Ltn%20Gerhard%20Bassenge,%201917.jpg)
In the illustration above, the fairings that are fore and aft of the lower wing appear to be wood, but on some other illustrations I've seen, these are painted as if they were metal. Which is most likely correct, anyone know for sure?
It also looks like the step is different than what the Roden kit supplies. I may or may not change this; not real sure yet.
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In the illustration above, the fairings that are fore and aft of the lower wing appear to be wood, but on some other illustrations I've seen, these are painted as if they were metal. Which is most likely correct, anyone know for sure?
I really wish you would read Paolo's log :)
Dave (Douglass, the illustrator of the above profile) makes a very strong case that the fairings were always wood on German-built D.IIIs, and that the idea that they were painted metal is a figment of imagination based on incorrectly interpreting photos. I tend to agree with him but not everyone does, and there is plenty of room for reasonable disagreement. One thing I can say with some certainty is the photo evidence definitely shows they were at least sometimes wood -- while the inverse is not so imo.
PS the step as Dave illustrates it is correct for this aircraft. There were round and square steps at different points in production.
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Thanks, Bo, you're a pretty handy guy to have around. :)
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Yep, I found a photo of this very machine in the Osprey Jagdstaffel 2 book (page 48), and the rectangular step is present.
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Over the last week, a few more goodies arrived for this effort; the gorgeous Master Spandau's and Barracuda wrapped intakes. A fellow moderator from another site also sent me a bunch of decals from an unused WNW sheet.
(http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy162/FokkerDrI/Albatros%20DVa/DIII/cam004_zpsccd849d7.jpg)
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Wing bottoms. This color looks good to my eye, so I'll run with it.
(http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy162/FokkerDrI/Albatros%20DVa/DIII/under_zpse70e1cb7.jpg)
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Very good colour sight!
Martin
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Very good colour sight!
Martin
Thanks. I figure it's close enough for me.
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Wing uppers now all painted up. I may have to repaint for more of a slant on lower wing, not real sure yet.
(http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy162/FokkerDrI/Albatros%20DVa/DIII/tuscan_zps90aff266.jpg)
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Nice work Kevin. Your red brown looks great!
RAGIII
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Very nice colour choice Kevin. The wings look really good!
Cheers,
Ernie :)
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Thanks, fellas. That red/brown is old Floquil Tuscan, purchased for my Titanic, but never yet used (until yesterday). I think it's acceptable, but I do believe I'll correct the slant on the wings, perhaps lower and upper. The more I look at the photo, the more I think it needs to be corrected.
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I know that the exterior was covered with Birch plywood, but have no idea of the interior framing wood; might be Birch as well, but I don’t think so. No matter though, just to establish some variation, interior framing has been base coated with a different color than what’s used on fuselage interior, and that should give me some different shades of wood when I add the oils to follow. (Believe it or don't, both fuselage halves are the exact same color, even though the photo implies otherwise.)
(http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy162/FokkerDrI/Albatros%20DVa/DIII/wood_zps8733976e.jpg)
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Very beautiful choice of colour.
Martin
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I know that the exterior was covered with Birch plywood, but have no idea of the interior framing wood; might be Birch as well, but I don’t think so. No matter though, just to establish some variation...
FWIW Interior bulkheads were also made of plywood, and probably the same wood. If you care all the answers to original materials can be found in the Koloman Mayerhofer Alb D.III thread on the aerodrome. Wood for props, spars and plywood and their colors are all discussed at length... Also look at the TVAL DVa construction pics...
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I'll check it out, Bo. As much as anything though, I'm following the lead of Mark Miller in his illustrations (sort of), by creating different visual textures. And as we both know, little of whatever I do will ever be seen by anyone anyway, except for web photos. My main goal (as a rule), is to create an overall impression, without dwelling on the particulars too much, though I do want it to look good.
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As I'd hoped, the application of raw sienna has produced a nice pecan/birch sort of feeling; close enough for me anyway.
(http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy162/FokkerDrI/Albatros%20DVa/DIII/oiled001_zpsbe6bb2bb.jpg)
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Oh yeah, Kevin! Looking good!
Cheers,
Bud
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It is very nice paint.
Martin
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Excellent Kevin! I await your next update!
RAGIII
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Thanks, fellas, I appreciate it. While this is not exactly what I had in mind, I can certainly live with it, (especially knowing that very little of it will actually be seen anyway). I have to let these dry for a while, then paint the remaining bits. I'm adding virtually nothing to the pit, as I really don't see any need as such, a few wires here and there, and that's about it.
(http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy162/FokkerDrI/Albatros%20DVa/DIII/oiled2003a_zps9366d5ac.jpg)
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nice job so far kevin. keep up the great work
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Looks good.
Martin
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Thanks, fellas. I'm hoping that a clear yellow overcoat will bring it back to a more orangish look, as that's what I was after to begin with. Either way, I'm sure I'll be OK with it. It's the outside that's much more relevant to me anyway.
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I've now went ahead and repainted the Tuscan area to what I believe is a more appropriate slope. Some dull cote, and I'll be ready to begin weathering these now.
(http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy162/FokkerDrI/Albatros%20DVa/DIII/alb2002_zpsf9b557bc.jpg)
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Very nice.
Drew
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Nice work on the angle correction! Looking forward to seeing the weathering.
RAGIII
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Thanks, fellas. I still need to make a run to the office supply store for some Chartpak tape to mask off the ribs, then I can weather away, (my old rolls are all dried out).
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Kev,
Looks good so far. I too am curious as to the wings, and their weathering. The wood for the 'pit looks pretty good to my eye, will the engine bearers get dirtied up?
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Kev,
Looks good so far. I too am curious as to the wings, and their weathering. The wood for the 'pit looks pretty good to my eye, will the engine bearers get dirtied up?
Perhaps a little bit, Mike, but none of it will ever be seen by Joe Average anyway, so I may not bother. (It's a topic I've been wanting to discuss for a while now, and may start a thread elsewhere on it.)
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I received the beautiful WNW Mercedes today, along with some Taurus engine items. I hope for engine work to commence tomorrow. Even though I didn't order them, an extra set of plugs was thrown into the package, a real nice gesture.
(http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy162/FokkerDrI/Albatros%20DVa/DIII/iii_zps65319907.jpg)
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Even though I didn't order them, an extra set of plugs was thrown into the package, a real nice gesture.
Yes Lucasz is wonderful at those little gestures. ;)
Keith
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Even though I didn't order them, an extra set of plugs was thrown into the package, a real nice gesture.
Yes Lucasz is wonderful at those little gestures. ;)
Keith
I have to ask; is that Husky in your avatar yours? He certainly is one good looking pooch.
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Admittedly a puny little update, but while already using some oils last night on another project, I went ahead and completed the interior assembly painting. Now I'm ready to slap the fuselage together.
(http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy162/FokkerDrI/Albatros%20DVa/DIII/alb1_zps7acd647c.jpg)
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Now that I've finally retrieved my Dremel from storage (Yay!), I was able to "adjust" the Roden engine framework to accept the WNW Mercedes. A few paint touch ups, and I'm ready to rock.
(http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy162/FokkerDrI/Albatros%20DVa/DIII/merc002_zps791a5515.jpg)
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It looks very great.
Martin
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Outstanding work on the wood components! Looking really good all around!
RAGIII
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Thanks, fellas. This is taking forever to get through, but that's because I'm working on about 8 other projects at the same time. I still intend to get this finished for our regional here in September though.