forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com
Modelers Lounge => Time to relax => Topic started by: Chris Johnson on July 22, 2014, 11:49:22 PM
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The D.VII GB is gaining momentum at a dizzying speed and it makes me wonder what makes the D.VII such a popular aircraft for WWI aviation modellers. I'm of the (admittedly uneducated) opinion that it must be the most popular aircraft for WWI modellers. I'll admit right up front that I don't see the attraction when compared to other German single seaters of the period. It doesn't seem to me to be a terribly graceful design and the rigging is minimal at best. That being the case, does it boil down to the myriad of markings that seem to exist for it?
Cheers,
Chris
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The D.VII GB is gaining momentum at a dizzying speed....
and the rigging is minimal at best. That being the case, does it boil down to the myriad of markings that seem to exist for it?
Cheers,
i
Chris
That pretty much hits all the points--- plus a bit of historical significance in that it is the only "weapon" to be specified in a Treaty ending a war to be surrendered entirely to the victors.
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For me it boiled down to minimal rigging for my first foray into WWI aircraft. I've always loved WWI aircraft and I built the Aurora kits as a kid when they were easy to find at the corner drug store! (Remember those?) I have been painting figures for many, many years, built the occasional AFV, and then was drawn to the WNW kits the more I read about them. When the DVII's were released I took the plunge and built my first last year (Josef Jacobs' DVII with the God of the North Wind). It went much smoother than I had anticipated and I only felt compelled to hurl it across the room a couple of times! After completing the kit, I purchased many more WNW kits that I plan on building.
Now, with the DVII's, the interest is more in the unique markings, the lozenge, and the stories behind them. I am working on "U10" for the group build and would like to build Degelow's DVII and then attempt one with the lozenge on the fuselage as well as the wings.
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1) It's German.
2) Corollary of 1) Jasta markings are famously colorful, and subject of endless study and argument -- and interest.
3) Much variation within the type during production, thus adding interest
4) Arguably the best fighter of the war
5) interesting postwar history
6) no rigging? maybe
I agree that it can't exactly be called "pretty," but it has kind of a brutal honesty that I find very appealing.
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....And, I think that this may be the only Datafile to have a 3 vol. series to document the type. So many subtle nuances in design, and variations in markings. Even the question: What if M. v .Richtofen had gotten one?
I have 1 Albie "in the works" and 4 more on the shelf, and 4 of these DVIIs in the stash, plenty of time to detail, and no lack of colorful markings. I think this was the fighter pilots airplane of WWI.
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It's got to be a combination of enormous choice of markings, similarly with camo finishes, best-of-type reputation, lack of rigging & simple construction.
The exact antithesis of most British types.
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For WWI aviation modelers, I think the popularity increase you spoke of is primarily a result of two factors: one, the Wingnuts Wings release. Eduard had probably the most respected, accurate and easily built D.VIIs in 1:48 a few years back. They didn't set the world on fire. Good models, but they didn't leap off the shelves. The Wingnuts Wings versions are much more detailed and better engineered and include better marking options and decals.
Two: Most experienced WWI modelers have come to terms with rigging. There are, of course, many ways to rig a model airplane and if one has more than a couple WWI aircraft under one's belt, rigging is no longer a serious issue. A pain, sometimes, but not rocket science. The D.VII has little rigging which is a draw for modelers who want to try a well made kit that doesn't require a lot of it. Hence, I think, more modelers are giving WWI modeling a go with the new Wingnut Wings D.VIIs. Being an iconic fighter of the Great War doesn't hurt either.
Outside of the modeling community, I think the most recognized and popular WWI fighter is the all red Dr.1
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I would add that WNW not only produced a beautifully engineered replica, but also made it available in it's four major versions. Although the physical differences are small, the ability to model any of the hundreds of unique schemes is a huge attraction. I predict we haven't nearly seen the end of After Market Products for this beast.
In my perfect Model World there are very few subjects I hope to model more then once; in this case I've already got three firmly in mind :o and possibly a forth. Bet I'm not alone!?
Cheers,
Lance
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For me, the D.VII was (is) my first WNW kit and my first WWI biplane model. I chose it mainly for the reasons listed above: minimal rigging, the four versions, and a plethora of color schemes. I chose the F model simply because it was the most recent one produced by WNW. :)
I have since ordered four more bips from WNW and a couple others from Roden and Encore. WNW is in possession of quite the gateway drug!
Mark G
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I am definitely in the minority preferring British aircraft over German ( I love rigging ) and of German aircraft, the Fokkers are my least favorite. That said, as a former airframe and powerplant mechanic, I admire the design of the D.VII as the most advanced fighter of the Great War. It's lack of rigging a direct result of the brilliant cantilevered wing that was reluctant to shed itself in a high speed dive. Although I say that I'm not a fan, I've already built two in 1/48 scale and I've got 10 Eduard and Roden kits in the stash, including two post-war MAG kits. The vast array of schemes is appealing as are the seemingly endless louver configurations. It's a simple design and my last D.VII was built as a break from some of the more challenging kits I had been working on. The "N" strut design makes wing attachment relatively easy and the "wing" axle makes for fairly simple undercarriage construction. Because it has a fabric rear cockpit bulkhead, very little of the fuselage framing has to be represented. All these things contribute to the fact that the D.VII can be built in less than half the time of a DFW, for example. JMHO.
Cheers,
Bud
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As my modeling years progress I 've found that I am more interested in the build experience than in finishing a number of models in a certain time. Now, if it is a subject I really like, especially if it fits my historical interests, I am more satisfied with the ones that take longer to build. This has had a direct impact on my stash. It is being slowly, but relentlessly reduced. Except for those on the shelf of doom, which I intend to get around to someday and fix the screw-ups and finish the models, I'm down to maybe twenty kits, mostly WWI era and earlier.
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I am definitely in the minority preferring British aircraft over German ( I love rigging ) and of German aircraft, the Fokkers are my least favorite. ...
Cheers,
Bud
The Minority, maybe, but I am proud to be a part of it, too. 8)
D.VII - German, ugly, Fokker, no rigging - for me all the good reasons not to like it.
Yes, I have built one, in 72nd scale from Roden, but that is it. WNW will not make any money from me for their Fokkers ;)
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Good question Chris and the answers certainly show the Major reasons. As for me it is the Color schemes and the fact that it fits into my squadron collection for every Jasta in JG1. Having built 2 WNW DVIIs I could easily, if I could afford the cost, build 6 more! Several are actually available as kit markings or after purchase decals from WNW.
RAGIII
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You're thinking too much. Trust me, I've been there too. Just buy the kits and build them. That's my mantra. Don't ask why, just do it. Like Carl the Greens keeper from Caddyshack, on my death bed I will receive total consciousness. Until then, I will not ask why.
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One other comment. I have to wonder if Des Had announced an Albatros build if the interest might have been even greater 8)
RAGIII
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I'm with a few others, minimal rigging - something to practice on...maybe a "Hall of Shame" candidate in the making ;D .
Enjoy
Sean
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One other comment. I have to wonder if Des Had announced an Albatros build if the interest might have been even greater 8)
RAGIII
I might have had a shot too, :)
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Yeah, I just don't see anything attractive about them. Not even ugly-yet-powerful in a P-47 kind of way. The DVII is all about the historical interest for me. That I totally get. An almost endless set of scheme possibilities. Way more interesting than yawn, modern jets.
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Form & function over grace and beauty. All the reasoning above is correct of course.
Like the Albatros Kits by WNW these must be the mainstay of WNW's success. A few more Albatros & Fokker types wouldn't go amiss in my eyes anyway. I'm sure if and when the Camel comes along it will take a share of the WNW sales pie but once the initial furore settles Albies and D.Vii's will carry on selling steadily. ;)
Keith
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It's interesting to see that this forum seems to explode with activity since the GB has been announced.
I share the same opinion as Przemol: I have built one (after scrapping an Eduard experiment due to not being successful with HGW decals and the undercarriage; and scrapping a 1/72 Roden for the amount of corrections necessary) by WNW (JaSta 27's Herta, a DVII made by Albatros). That'S enough for me, as there are soooo many other interesting aircraft around.
Stefan
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Well, Chris, I must agree, I don't find a D.VII very attractive as an aeroplane. The attraction for me lies in the fact that the D.VII's were the main fighters in the dutch LVA between 1919 and the 1920's. That's why I have built an LVA D.VII between Christmas 2012 and summer 2013. You can find the build-log here (http://forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com/index.php?topic=1288.0). It was my first WNW kit and to be honest I wasn't aware of the minimal rigging required until after I started building it.
Now there's a group build I could enter this with a D.VIIF in full lozenge and with orange cockardes and markings from the dutch naval service in 1919. Not a very spectacular scheme, but at least a rare one.
However I don't see yet where I should find the time in the next half year to do so. It would be my first D.VII with a BMW engine.
regards,
Ivo
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1) It's German.
2) Corollary of 1) Jasta markings are famously colorful, and subject of endless study and argument -- and interest.
3) Much variation within the type during production, thus adding interest
I agree that it can't exactly be called "pretty," but it has kind of a brutal honesty that I find very appealing.
My feeling is that with these points, #1 being the most important, you've pretty much nailed it Bo. It's akin to the popularity of the German Tiger I for AFV modellers. It rules the roost for virtually the same reasons.
Cheers,
Chris
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The D.VII GB is gaining momentum at a dizzying speed and it makes me wonder what makes the D.VII such a popular aircraft for WWI aviation modellers. I'm of the (admittedly uneducated) opinion that it must be the most popular aircraft for WWI modellers. I'll admit right up front that I don't see the attraction when compared to other German single seaters of the period. It doesn't seem to me to be a terribly graceful design and the rigging is minimal at best. That being the case, does it boil down to the myriad of markings that seem to exist for it?
Cheers,
Chris
It's in the Genes! :)
Hi Chris,
My Dad built WWI Flying Model Aeroplanes throughout the 1930's. His favorite machine was the Fokker D.VII. 8)
Close second was the Travelair or Witchita Fokker.
I was probably 8 years old when I built my first balsa kit off of some old plans he had from his youth. I quickly learned to cover these plans with Seran Wrap to protect them from my gluing while I had my assembly pinned to the plan that covered a sheet of cardboard. I also learned not to push down too hard with my Exacto knife when cutting stock that was jigged.
For me it is a most beautiful machine in design and function. The cantilever wings and everything else about it can't be rivaled except for one other candidate.... The Fokker D.VI! I'm fond of the Fokker D.VI because it looks like the D.VII skizzled with a Dr.I! ::)
I've heard there's a few different color schemes to choose from too! ???
I guess if you painted a D.VII PC10, Brown or Green, and added a few miles of rigging that it might not be as pretty, but I'll probably never know that answer. ;)
Thanks for the fun topic. ;D
Cheers, Jay aka FOKKERJ :P
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I just thought of another real good reason. There arew Good/Great/buildable kits in EVERY MAJOR scale! (Except 1/24th) ::)
RAGIII
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I just thought of another real good reason. There arew Good/Great/buildable kits in EVERY MAJOR scale! (Except 1/24th) ::)
RAGIII
Hi RAGIII,
Have heard of the BLUE PRINT MODELS' FOKKER D.VII Vac Kit? ???
I hear that it's in 1/24" scale. ::)
Didn't REVELL have one in this scale?
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well i just love d.vii fokkers. not as graceful as an albatros or pfalz but just endless variety to keep interest. 4 color or 5 color lozenge, rib tape color, louver config.engine type. you have to be a sleuth to build one . most of the famous german aces flew them. theres several still in existence in several museums.someone said the wnw camel will sell alot. but to me one camel is enuff. they all look the same to me, plus double rigging wires kinda piss me off. most british types one is enuff for me, but german,austro-hung,french and italian stuff is alot more variety of color scheme and insignia. i just dont see why someone would want to build more than one camel, or re8 or whatever. you can build fokker dr.1,d.vii,albatros,pfalz,aviatik,phonix,lohner and your shelf looks like a rainbow of beauty. just my humble opinion of course.
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I just thought of another real good reason. There arew Good/Great/buildable kits in EVERY MAJOR scale! (Except 1/24th) ::)
RAGIII
Hi RAGIII,
Have heard of the BLUE PRINT MODELS' FOKKER D.VII Vac Kit? ???
I hear that it's in 1/24" scale. ::)
Didn't REVELL have one in this scale?
Funny! By the way the Revelle kit is 1/28th,or there abouts.
RAGIII
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I'm pretty much of the same view. Things like the RE8 are interesting because they look so ungainly, but for the most part Allied aircraft are just all too sensible.
Well at least the American and French ( even the Russians in some cases) have more colorful camouflage and Unit/Personal Markings compared to the British
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very true ed. the brits planes are quite ugly in my eyes and drab looking. the french,belgians, italians and russians in some cases did do more color wise than the brits. they were being logical i think. dark top light bottom one color for all, or 2 if you consider pc-12. this is way more thrifty than all the colors and patterns of the germans and austrians.
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I just thought of another real good reason. There arew Good/Great/buildable kits in EVERY MAJOR scale! (Except 1/24th) ::)
RAGIII
Hi RAGIII,
Have heard of the BLUE PRINT MODELS' FOKKER D.VII Vac Kit? ???
I hear that it's in 1/24" scale. ::)
Didn't REVELL have one in this scale?
Funny! By the way the Revelle kit is 1/28th,or there abouts.
RAGIII
Then there was the large (can't recall the scale), patently simple, Aurora screw-together kit. I don't remember how much it cost at the MCRD San Diego exchange, but I still remember a trip there with my father- who insisted on getting both the Fokker D.VII and S.E.5 and I had a blast putting them together. If memory serves, I was 9 or 10 and they had funny rubber bits to attach the elevators. The 1/4 scale Aurora and KB WW1 series were my favorites when I was a kid and I could buy lots of them even with my humble lawn-mowing income.
I've always thought that the blunt nose and squared-off lines of the D.VII were very appealing, pure business. An aircraft designed to combine the best fighter power plants available with the optimum armament and still fly true for both expert and novice alike. The design also appears to have made life a bit easier for the mechanics, given the way most of the systems requiring regular maintenance could be accessed by large panels all around rather than just small hatches though a plywood skin. Nothing against the wooden beauties built by Albatros, Roland, and others- I just always admired the "no frills, no fuss" design of the D.VII series.
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Then there was the large (can't recall the scale), patently simple, Aurora screw-together kit. I don't remember how much it cost at the MCRD San Diego exchange, but I still remember a trip there with my father- who insisted on getting both the Fokker D.VII and S.E.5 and I had a blast putting them together. If memory serves, I was 9 or 10 and they had funny rubber bits to attach the elevators. The 1/4 scale Aurora and KB WW1 series were my favorites when I was a kid and I could buy lots of them even with my humble lawn-mowing income.
I've always thought that the blunt nose and squared-off lines of the D.VII were very appealing, pure business. An aircraft designed to combine the best fighter power plants available with the optimum armament and still fly true for both expert and novice alike. The design also appears to have made life a bit easier for the mechanics, given the way most of the systems requiring regular maintenance could be accessed by large panels all around rather than just small hatches though a plywood skin. Nothing against the wooden beauties built by Albatros, Roland, and others- I just always admired the "no frills, no fuss" design of the D.VII series.
Thanks Vickers, I was trying to remember what company made this Screw together Fok. D.VII.
My Dad bought one of these too! He and my Big Brother spray painted it and screwed it together all by themselves! :)
I was too busy painting and assembling my 1/72" WWI Aeroplanes. ;)
I would like to still have it though.
Cheers, Jay
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An interesting thread and some good points made. For me the D.VII seemed like a good one to cut my teeth on but I really like the look of the British pusher types. The DH2 and the FE2b are sitting there waiting for me to be confident enough to tackle them. I prefer the look of the Pfalz and Albatros over the D.VII but can understand the attraction of this famous aircraft. Then for me there are any of the aircraft flown by the Australian Flying Corps: the SE5a, the Camel, the RE8 etc. I missed out on buying a 32012 so hope for an updated offering some time
However, as I start to build the D.VII I am discovering just how well made the WNW kits are so may have many favourites before long.
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I agree with Snowy and further, I think that they are all attractive. That explains why my stash isn't made up of only Fokker D.VII's.
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Snowy, don't shy away from the DH2 or FE... They are very buildable kits and although the rigging looks to be intimidating, it's not much different from "standard" WWI rigging, just more of it. I built the FE.2b for an IPMS USA review, spread over two articles. Take a look if you are interested. I used primarily EZ Line, which has it's advantages as well as drawbacks, for the rigging. The way Wingnuts Wings has engineered the kit, it goes together solidly and is a reasonable build.
There is a tip I learned about tensioning the tail boom rigging to get it all at the right, symmetrical tension that I discuss in the review. It involved hanging a small weight from the collected rigging at the end of the tail assemble before committing adhesive to the rigging. The guy I stole it from (sorry, I don't remember who) used his car keys as the weight. Not a big technical deal, but useful.
I'd say "go for it". The FE is a classic (as is the DH2) and looks great once it's on the shelf. Kinda big, but not too big.
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Thanks very much Eindecker. I shall seek out your articles, presumably via the IPMS USA website. They should be most helpful. I am planning to do my SE5a after the D.VII is completed. I have had that kit the longest and would like to do an AFC version. Then I should do the DH2 or FE.2b, subject to any future group builds.
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My interest in the D.VII began with the Enemy Ace comic series drawn by Joe Kubert. Of course,
the triplane was the center stage, but this plane was occasionally drawn. Those detailed comic
books mentally entertained me for hours along with other Joe Kubert comic series. Also, I went
and watched the movie The Blue Max and this too added my attraction to WW1 German
fighter planes. When I got to be a little older, I got a job as a busboy and saved my tip money to
spend at the local hobby store. Those models are long gone but I still have memories of them.
During the pandemic, I stumbled on the WNW website and I couldn't believe the detailed kits.
I joined a model website and went into describing a kit I bought at a young age. Those enthusiasts
answered quickly with the Aurora Fokker D-7 Screwdriver Kit. A couple of years ago, I bought
the Fokker D.VII that Aurora sold and plan on slowly putting it together with modifications.
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I totally agree with OP: Chris Johnson about not being fascinated with the D-VII. While I do admit to owning several 1/72 kits I have yet to build one to my liking. I think the new Eduard 1/72 kit will remedy that though. I think for me is that I most enjoy building the less produced and test aircraft.
Where is this group build people are mentioning? I may be swayed to participate!
Tim
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Tim, I think that group build was ten years ago. Check the date of the original post.
Warren
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Interestingly I see this thread started in 2014 when the forum was in its infancy. Nice to know we are still fascinated by the eternal questions!
I suppose it's obvious why the D.VII is popular - lots of colourful markings ( many without lozenge), no rigging, easy construction and lots of readily available kits in all scales to suit all pockets.
Not my favourite though: give me an SE5a any day, and for the enemy, I love the elegant lines of the Roland D.VI - but then I'm currently building one, so maybe that's no surprise!
Sandy