forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com

WW1 Aircraft Modeling => Under Construction => Scratch builds => Topic started by: Des on September 01, 2013, 08:00:44 PM

Title: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Des on September 01, 2013, 08:00:44 PM
I have started my next scratch build, this time a Fokker Spinne (Spider) in 1:32 scale.  To begin with I decided to build the engine first, this is an Argus four cylinder 50hp water cooled model. The engine will be fully exposed as no cowlings were added to this aeroplane, so I will detail the engine as much as possible. Below are some photos of progress so far, the basics of the engine are now complete but I still need to add the plug leads and a lot of plumbing, I have added the four primer taps to the top of the cylinders. The match and hand photos give a good size comparison, it is not a huge engine but has been fun to build so far.

Des.

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-4OA_zyurZ7Y/UiMND5LTYKI/AAAAAAAAI0g/wju7X_5eaZw/s800/spinne%2520x%252019.jpg)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/--Ox1wrqyVRk/UiMNOLzXdhI/AAAAAAAAI04/JzwYhA74iR0/s800/spinne%2520x%252023.jpg)

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Ey3VXxvErrM/UiMNQFjpWqI/AAAAAAAAI1A/2aRP4ueyadE/s800/spinne%2520x%252024.jpg)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-WRS5sj3oeiI/UiMNUyNcu0I/AAAAAAAAI1Q/Iv3PgXzewi4/s800/spinne%2520x%252026.jpg)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-3fUdyAxdxCk/UiMNZM6jqiI/AAAAAAAAI1g/7UHEmi9qZKU/s800/spinne%2520x%252028.jpg)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-UrjXeUQ2XYs/UiMNW_GsGFI/AAAAAAAAI1Y/JlyxLFde4BI/s800/spinne%2520x%252027.jpg)
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Andi Little on September 01, 2013, 08:37:48 PM
Oh my word!!!!!!!!!!!! ............ I wish?
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: martin on September 01, 2013, 10:00:05 PM
Gorgeous looking engine Des. I will certainly enjoy following this new build.

Martin.
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: David on September 01, 2013, 10:36:37 PM
Hi Des,

That is an absolutely magnificent replica engine!  Could you please give us a link to, or tell us how we can navigate to the build log?  I am not sure what Bo means by the main site.  I thought this is it!  ???  I'm easily confused these days!  ;D

Ah yes, the old giant matchstick and giant hand trick!  :D  Building such a replica engine in a larger scale or even full sized is enough of a challenge but in 1:32 scale, what an achievement!  It looks as though it's ready to kick over Des!  After seeing your Caudron earlier today and now this I am absolutely astounded by the quality of your scratch built models!

Congratulations Des!
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Des on September 01, 2013, 10:42:32 PM
Here you go David, the link to the build log  http://www.ww1aircraftmodels.com/page44.html

My website is the main site, this is where I have a full build log history plus plenty of hints and tips, the big red banner at the top of the forum page will take you directly to the main website, just click the banner and hey presto, you will be there.

Thank you for your kind words regarding my build of the engine, they are much appreciated.

Des.
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: David on September 01, 2013, 11:26:59 PM
Thanks for that Des!  :)  I will have a look.  That's the page I first went to in order to become a member of this forum.  The forum and the main website have the same URL.  I'm a bit confused but I guess that technically the main website and this forum are separate from each other.  I came here by clicking the forum link on the main site, and have never gone back, until just then!

You're very welcome Des!  I am very impressed by your work!  I will have a good look at some of the build logs, including yours when I have some spare time.

Regards,

David.
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: LindsayT on September 02, 2013, 12:24:38 AM
Yahoo! Another Des scratch build!
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Ernie on September 02, 2013, 01:53:24 AM
Wonderful job on the engine, Des...it's a jewel!  I'm Looking forward to the rest of
the build.  You've picked an interesting project.  Quite a flimsy looking kite, and I
can't wait to  see how you do it justice. 

Cheers,
Ernie :)
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: ALBATROS1234 on September 02, 2013, 04:13:25 AM
are you freakin kiddin me? one of my favorite early aircraft of all time.  i started gathering info last year so let me know if you need info . cant wait to see this bad boy.
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: lone modeller on September 02, 2013, 05:46:01 AM
That is just one incredible engine - they detail is astounding..... and I am fast running out of superlatives! One more: amazing.
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: rhallinger on September 02, 2013, 08:43:19 AM
Beautiful Des!  Can you tell us a little about the tools you use to achieve such fine work from raw materials?  Thanks.

Regards,

Bob
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Des on September 02, 2013, 08:52:35 AM
Thank you for all the kind comments, much appreciated.

Bob - I have a small watch makers lathe which does a great job for any turning I require. I also have a full set of carbide micro drill bits, these are fantastic for drilling very accurate holes in any material except steel, but they do break easily. I also have a selection of scalpel blades, these I purchase in boxes of 100 so I always have a good supply, I fit the blades to stainless steel handles. I use a set of very fine jewelers files for shaping my parts along with very fine grit wet and dry paper. I have a fine tooth razor saw for cutting plastic parts, this is a great little tool and cuts very clean, I also have a hammer on stand by just in case  :)

Scott - An email heading your way today - thanks.

Des.
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: IanB on September 02, 2013, 11:45:06 AM
Gorgeous engine Des, it's huge! (ok so I'm used to 1:72...)  ;)

Ian
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: AROTH on September 02, 2013, 11:55:04 AM
Where does one acquire those tiny springs?
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Des on September 02, 2013, 01:41:46 PM
Aroth - I was fortunate enough to have a guy in Europe send me some tiny springs, the place where he works uses equipment that has miniature springs and they need replacing on a regular basis, so the used springs although perfectly okay are no good for the equipment but are very useful for other purposes, like modeling  :)

Des.
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: coyotemagic on September 02, 2013, 01:51:04 PM
I'm at a loss for words, mate!  You are truly the Scratch Master.  I knew you were going to build a Fokker next, but I thought it would be a D.VII.  I'm delighted to see this as your next up.  That engine is your usual pure brilliance.
Cheers,
Bud
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Des on September 02, 2013, 04:54:10 PM
Thanks very much Bud, I'm sorta getting used to doing scratch builds now and thoroughly enjoy doing them.

Des.
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Steven Robson on September 02, 2013, 06:14:33 PM
Yes it's true..

I wet my pants when Des started the scratch build of the spider.  Here's a  ::) for the wet pants and several..

 :) :) :) :) :) :)

for the Fokker Spinne.

I'll be following this exciting build with much anticipation, so here's a  :-* for you Des.

Happy Landings
Steven Robson

(mental note: Steven your really shouldn't be sending Des virtual kisses)

p.s.  It really is time for our kit makers to pull up their socks and make some of the early aviation aircraft available to us. 
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Russell on September 02, 2013, 07:13:58 PM
Des,

The engine is a magnificent start (as usual). :)

I didn’t know what a Fokker Spinne looked like so I searched the net. You certainly do enjoy rigging don’t you!

You mentioned using a watchmaker lathe. In the past I’ve used my Kerry engineering lathe for making bits for 1/24 & 1/43 scale cars but weighing in at around 900 pounds it’s a touch of overkill. I’d looked at watchmaking lathes but never sorted out what to get. Could I ask what yours is please?

Regards
Russell   
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: bobs_buckles on September 02, 2013, 07:47:05 PM
All the above - superb work, Des  :o
Two eyes fixed on future updates.
Cheers,
Bob
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Nigel Jackson on September 02, 2013, 08:26:15 PM
An interesting challenge!

I tapped Fokker Spinne in Wikipedia and it re-directed me to a page on the Fokker Spin (sic). It suggested that a couple of surviving examples are preserved at the Aviodrome aviation museum at Lelystad Airport in the Netherlands. It would be great if someone could get a good set of photographs taken. Or has that  already been done?

Best wishes
Nigel
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Gisbod on September 02, 2013, 08:39:16 PM
Yes, I didn't know what a Fokker Spinne was either.. Great subject for a scratch build Des..

Will be watching this one..

Regards

Guy
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Des on September 02, 2013, 08:46:20 PM
Russell - Here is the information on my lathe, it is a cute little thing but does everything I want it to.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-bolWsS5xMuo/UiRqcfBhflI/AAAAAAAAI28/SRmZ45GejpM/s800/nano%2520lathe.jpg)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-qlxD9_WGbZE/UiRp8eppcII/AAAAAAAAI2k/bvmGijZeoas/s800/lathe.jpg)


Nigel - I would very much like someone in the Netherlands to take a heap of photos of the surviving Spinne at the Aviodrome Museum. all photos would be greatly appreciated.

Des.
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: IvotB on September 02, 2013, 08:58:30 PM
Des,

Nice start. I am still wrestling with my Historic Wings kit for a 1:72 Fokker Spin.

You have seen these pictures before, but I took those in august 2011, when this Spin replica (from the 1930ies) was exhibited in the St. Bavo church in Haarlem.

It might help you with the rigging and other details. Since then, I have found that almost every Fokker Spin is unique in itself:


(http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x412/Ivotb/Fokker%20Spin%20walk%20around/IMG_1107Medium.jpg)

(http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x412/Ivotb/Fokker%20Spin%20walk%20around/IMG_1106Medium.jpg)

(http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x412/Ivotb/Fokker%20Spin%20walk%20around/IMG_1088Medium.jpg)

(http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x412/Ivotb/Fokker%20Spin%20walk%20around/IMG_1082Medium.jpg)

(http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x412/Ivotb/Fokker%20Spin%20walk%20around/IMG_1078Medium.jpg)

(http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x412/Ivotb/Fokker%20Spin%20walk%20around/IMG_1078Medium.jpg)

(http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x412/Ivotb/Fokker%20Spin%20walk%20around/IMG_1071Medium.jpg)


There are more pictures, but these just give a good impression.

By the way, I don't know why in english you are referring to the Fokker Spin as a Fokker Spinne. Don't know where those two additional letters came from. Spin is Spider in dutch. If you look at the rigging, this might be an explanation for the name.


Regards,
Ivo
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: rhallinger on September 02, 2013, 09:13:47 PM
Great photos Ivo!  I had never heard of a Fokker Spin before Des's thread on this build.  This is a prime example of how truly helpful and important this forum is for early aircraft modelers.  In two pages of posts I have learned about an aircraft I had never heard of, obtained information on a lathe and modeling tools that are very helpful to the hobby, been further inspired by another brilliant scratch build by Des and seen wonderful prototype photos of the subject from Ivo!  I also learned a little Dutch.  ;). Only here folks! ;D.  What a great thing for all of us.  Thanks Des!

Regards,

Bob
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Des on September 02, 2013, 09:44:08 PM
Thanks very much Ivo for the great photos, they will certainly be helpful. One thing I have found while searching for information is that there were many variations of the Fokker Spin, Spinne, Spider, so it is a matter of picking one particular type and sticking with it.

Thanks Bob for your kind words, I am so happy that you are getting so much from the forum.

Des.
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: lcarroll on September 02, 2013, 11:35:23 PM
Des,
   Now, this one looks like a challenge and then some! It will be fun and certainly there'll be no end of inspiration and learning following the "Scratchmaster" through this project. Enjoy, I know we all will from our "comfy chairs"!
Cheers, ;)
Lance
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: coyotemagic on September 03, 2013, 12:20:11 AM
Des, here are a couple pics from wwimodels.org.
http://www.wwi-models.org/app/sbj/srch/Macn.php?action=uArchList&subjId=135
Good shot of the underside.  It's all just sort of tentatively held together with wire.  Wing attachment should be fun.
Cheers,
Bud
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: pepperman42 on September 03, 2013, 12:43:15 AM
Yer a crafty Fokker - nice start - I will be going back and forth tween here and the build log. Your lathe pic looks like a spec sheet - where did you get it/who makes it?

Steve
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: lcarroll on September 03, 2013, 04:00:24 AM
Steve,
   I found it for sale in Singapore and Hong Kong but couldn't get a price without giving up my Birth Certificate #, Visa and Bank Account Passwords etc......or so it seemed! Hopefully Des can provide a Vendor contact.
Cheers,
Lance :o
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: IvotB on September 03, 2013, 06:10:13 AM

Nigel - I would very much like someone in the Netherlands to take a heap of photos of the surviving Spinne at the Aviodrome Museum. all photos would be greatly appreciated.


Des,

I did react, but just didn't see your last sentence. The pictures I posted are of the Fokker Spin of the Aviodrome. But they have 2. One is the 1936 replica, which is in my pictures and is still in flying condition: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zSBjnx7iDg
The other one is from 1913 and has quite a history, but doesn't seem to be complete, but is restored.

From Wikipedia:

Een van de laatstgebouwde Spinnen in 1913 werd door Fokker na de Eerste Wereldoorlog mee naar Nederland genomen. Dit toestel was echter toen al niet meer compleet, begin jaren twintig werd hij weer opgebouwd met voorhanden zijnde onderdelen. In de Tweede Wereldoorlog werd dit toestel door de Duitse bezetter als oorlogsbuit meegenomen naar een vliegtuigmuseum in Berlijn. Na de oorlog werd de Spin naar Polen overgebracht. In 1986 keerde hij terug naar Nederland en werd hij bij Fokker gerestaureerd. Een tweede nog bestaand exemplaar werd door personeel van Fokker in 1936 gebouwd ter gelegenheid van Fokkers vijfentwintigjarig vliegjubileum. Beide toestellen bevinden zich in het luchtvaartmuseum Aviodrome op luchthaven Lelystad.

The 1913 Spin was taken to the Netherlands after ww1. In ww2 the germans took this plane to Germany and went to Poland after ww2. In 1986 it returned to the Netherlands and was restored.

I will post more pictures of the Spin here or in a separate topic as you prefer. I tried to make as many pictures as possible from the rigging, rudder and elevator control.

I'll have to look, but I expect to have also pictures of the 1913 Spin.

regards,
Ivo
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Des on September 03, 2013, 08:58:12 AM
Thanks very much for the photos Ivo, I have moved them to the Aircraft board, this will be a permanent record for anyone to use.

I will be going through each photo with a fine tooth comb looking for any details which I might have missed, it is excellent to have so many good photos.

RE, The Lathe -  The company name is Sieg, the lathe is a Nanometer N1, I purchased mine about two years ago on ebay from a guy here in Australia who specialises in lathes, it was brand new and I won the auction for $350.00.

Des.
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: lcarroll on September 03, 2013, 11:32:34 AM
Thanks for the Lathe info Des. I'll do some "homework" on this and post results.
Cheers,
Lance
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Des on September 03, 2013, 01:04:54 PM
Here is a link to all of the distributors world wide.

http://www.siegind.com/distributor.html

Des.
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Russell on September 03, 2013, 06:16:42 PM
Here is a link to all of the distributors world wide.

http://www.siegind.com/distributor.html

Des.

Des,
Thanks for that info, I’ll investigate further. Not only is it far handier doing tiny work on a miniature lathe but desk-top lathes avoid standing in a cold garage in winter!

Regards
Russell 
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: lone modeller on September 03, 2013, 08:42:37 PM

By the way, I don't know why in english you are referring to the Fokker Spin as a Fokker Spinne. Don't know where those two additional letters came from. Spin is Spider in dutch.


For those who do not know Spinne is the correct German spelling for spider (it has a capital because it is a noun). A. Fokker was Dutch so no doubt he used the Dutch spelling in Holland and the German spelling in Germany.

Hope this might help to clear up some confusion.

On the topic of the aircraft, which is also completely new to me, I am left wondering who had the nerve to fly such a thing? I thought that some of the early aircraft were pretty hairy things to fly but this one takes the biscuit! Great subject Des - and thanks for the info on the lathes. This is a truly wonderful site.
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Chris Johnson on September 03, 2013, 09:29:06 PM
Well, I'm blown away by the engine Des. It's simply superb. I've been following the build log on your main site and it never ceases to amaze me what you can fabricate from bits and pieces of various materials.

Cheers,

Chris
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: IvotB on September 04, 2013, 12:53:17 AM
On the topic of the aircraft, which is also completely new to me, I am left wondering who had the nerve to fly such a thing? I thought that some of the early aircraft were pretty hairy things to fly but this one takes the biscuit!

Anthony Fokker himself flew the Spin. He studied early aircraft building in Germany and together with a friend he built his first aircraft. The first one was wrecked by his study friend and then he tried himself. He seemed to have been a better pilot and made lots of succesfull flights with it. I do think that it takes quite some nerve, but that goes for most pioneers. But there are still pilots that fly the Spin even today. Look at the video I posted earlier.

By the way, you are completely right about the Spin Spinne discussion I started earlier.

regards,
Ivo
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: IvotB on September 04, 2013, 01:03:15 AM
I will be going through each photo with a fine tooth comb looking for any details which I might have missed, it is excellent to have so many good photos.

Des.
There is one thing I should mention. In these pictures I think the radiator for the engine is missing. I have seen many different arrangements of radiators in the frame of a Fokker Spin. The historic aircraft kit places the radiator between the two main girders of the fuselage, but I have seen more pictures of a fuselage with two radiators placed along the girders in line with the fuselage, thus reducing drag, but probably having less cooling capacity.

regards,
Ivo
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Nigel Jackson on September 04, 2013, 01:49:36 AM
Ivo

The Youtube material you have linked us to shows some awesome modern moments of preparing a Spin for flight and then in the air. The pilot is so exposed in his open position! I think my knees would have been too busy knocking to actually control anything.

Thank you

Nigel
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: GAJouette on September 04, 2013, 03:38:41 AM
  Des,
Magnificent work on her engine my old friend. I love those details you've included. No doubt about it your lathe was an excellent investment. I'm looking forward to following this latest project unfold.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: IvotB on September 04, 2013, 05:57:38 AM
The Youtube material you have linked us to shows some awesome modern moments of preparing a Spin for flight and then in the air. The pilot is so exposed in his open position! I think my knees would have been too busy knocking to actually control anything.
Nigel,

the video shows the 1936 Spin in flight around 1992. It was flown by Edwin Boshoff, a test pilot of Fokker, probably then flying normally only Fokker 50 and Fokker 100 aircraft.


Des,

Looking through a book about 100 years of Fokker, I am getting the impression that the beautiful engine you made was only used on the first 3 Fokker Spinnes. I am sure about the alignment of the radiators on these Spinnes. There is at least one useful picture for this and I'll make a scan.

The Historic Wings kit is from a later Spin in 1912.

regards,
Ivo
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Zabu on September 04, 2013, 06:13:01 AM
Very nice engine... great for a spin!

I'm sure that lathe will be quite handy.

Cheers
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: ALBATROS1234 on September 04, 2013, 04:14:49 PM
yes ivotb des will have to make the first spinne with that 50 hp engine.
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Des on September 08, 2013, 04:24:17 PM
I have made a few small steps with this scratch build. Most of the framework is now complete and glued together. The two beams that the engine is sitting on is the fuselage, that's it, there will be a seat slung between them for the pilot to sit on. It is a very flimsy structure at the moment but there will be a heap of rigging which will hold it all together securely. Not much to show as it is a very basic airframe but at least the photos show I have been doing something  :)

Des.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-liDhro_gyCI/UiwT1x6vanI/AAAAAAAAI5Y/j93yQe1Q63c/s800/spinne%2520x%252033.jpg)

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-R9vRqCwVWmE/UiwT1Oo0LtI/AAAAAAAAI5Q/fcaJizqGdz4/s800/spinne%2520x%252030.jpg)

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-nz5bu1f5H2s/UiwT1G-rOLI/AAAAAAAAI5U/RnXA7qrmcAQ/s800/spinne%2520x%252031.jpg)

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-ZBPbcLTvCnw/UiwT1J0VHhI/AAAAAAAAI5E/jY3VxOGs9VI/s800/spinne%2520x%252032.jpg)

Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: rhallinger on September 08, 2013, 10:54:05 PM
Beautiful work Des!  I marvel at your skillful manipulation of brass rod, tube and bar into such a clean airframe assembly.  Amazing!  How do you affix the joints?

Having already learned two different methods of fabricating wings from sheet styrene from your Voisin and Caudron projects, I can hardly wait to see what you have planned for the faerie's wings on the Spinne. ;)

Regards,

Bob
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: IvotB on September 09, 2013, 12:55:14 AM
Perhaps in 1:32 one shouldn't construct the wings of styrene. If you look at the structure, they are all metal tubes. There are no real wing ribs, but just tubes bent in the shape of the upper part of the wing, connected to 2 girders. So a real frame seems a good possibility in this scale.

But I'll wait and see and be surprised and amazed at the beautiful results.

regards,
Ivo
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Jacek on September 09, 2013, 01:14:05 AM
Watchmaker's execution !
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Zabu on September 10, 2013, 03:39:50 AM
And another work of art begins! This is a real joy to my eyes.

Cheers
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: RAGIII on September 10, 2013, 04:07:46 AM
Des,
Outstanding start to what is sure to be another beautiful and amazing build!
RAGIII
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Des on September 10, 2013, 07:50:00 AM
Thanks guys for your kind remarks, they are very much appreciated.

I'm still gathering information on this aeroplane, I intend making this a model of Fokker Spinne No.1 but getting correct details is proving difficult, there were so many different versions of the Spinne that simply looking at photos is not good enough, precise information with the photo is essential. I will battle on though and build something that represents a Fokker Spinne.

Des.
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Old Man on September 10, 2013, 12:36:46 PM
Great to see you working on a fresh project, Sir!

A wonderful subject for it.

Very curious how you will handle the wing.
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: stefanbuss on September 10, 2013, 04:11:50 PM
I really hope that you succeed with adding additional strength via the rigging - I would be mightily afraid of simply distorting the flimsy structure. Good luck with your build!

Stefan
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Zabu on September 11, 2013, 05:43:09 AM
Thanks guys for your kind remarks, they are very much appreciated.

I'm still gathering information on this aeroplane, I intend making this a model of Fokker Spinne No.1 but getting correct details is proving difficult, there were so many different versions of the Spinne that simply looking at photos is not good enough, precise information with the photo is essential. I will battle on though and build something that represents a Fokker Spinne.

Des.

There's a 1/72 brass model made by Historic Wings

http://www.aim72.co.uk/page207.html

You may try to download the pdf and see how they build it, if it helps.

Cheers
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: IvotB on September 11, 2013, 07:13:59 AM
I'm still gathering information on this aeroplane, I intend making this a model of Fokker Spinne No.1 but getting correct details is proving difficult, there were so many different versions of the Spinne that simply looking at photos is not good enough, precise information with the photo is essential. I will battle on though and build something that represents a Fokker Spinne.
Des,

The frame that you made will only be useful for the Spin 2 or 3. Spin 1 is different. I have one picture and I'll try to make a scan of it, then you will see what I mean.

regards,
Ivo
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: IvotB on September 11, 2013, 07:22:00 AM
Spin 1

(http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x412/Ivotb/Fokker%20Spin%20walk%20around/FokkerSpin11600x1200_zps9986c6af.jpg)

No rudder, no keel, different landing gear.



Spin 2

(http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x412/Ivotb/Fokker%20Spin%20walk%20around/FokkerSpin21600x1200_zpsc3b5ac7d.jpg)

Side image, without the wings



Spin 3

(http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x412/Ivotb/Fokker%20Spin%20walk%20around/FokkerSpin31600x1200_zpsfcd07b6e.jpg)

with Renault engine

(http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x412/Ivotb/Fokker%20Spin%20walk%20around/FokkerSpin3II1600x1200_zps3bfb08bc.jpg)

with Argus engine and Anthony Fokker at the controls.


regards,
Ivo

P.S., the historic wings Spin is a 1912 version, Spin 1, 2 and 3 were built in 1910 and 1911
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Des on September 11, 2013, 08:13:58 AM
Thanks Ivo for the photos and the information, looks like my Spinne will now be No.2

Thanks Zabu for the link to the model, I will go over it and see if there is anything I can download.

Des.
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Zabu on September 11, 2013, 10:13:04 AM
I guess that Spin 2 was built by Jacob Goedecker. Fokker built from 3 onwards.

From the book Fokker Flugzeugwerke in Deutschland 1912 - 1921 -  Fokker designations:

 - Fokker "Spinne", 1910, monoplane built by Jacob Goedecker, first aircraft, which was at least partially designed by Anthony Fokker
 - Fokker "Spinne 2", 1911, again built by Jacob Goedecker
 - Fokker "Spinne 3", 1911, first aircraft built by Fokker himself

Don't  know if that matters to you.

Cheers
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Des on September 11, 2013, 10:21:39 AM
Thanks Zabu, it is always very interesting to read the history of these old aircraft. I will continue building and make my model No.2, or there abouts  :)

Des.
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Zabu on September 11, 2013, 11:05:02 AM
Thanks Zabu, it is always very interesting to read the history of these old aircraft. I will continue building and make my model No.2, or there abouts  :)

Des.

Your welcome.

I enjoy alot this old rude airplanes. If we imagine how rude a wing warp aircraft is, now imagine a no wing warp airplane like this.

Cheers
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Des on September 12, 2013, 09:04:58 AM
A small update with my progress, just cruising at the moment..... :)

I made and added the seat, as can be seen it was a very basic seat with little comfort. I also added some rigging to strengthen the frame assembly, these few pieces of rigging have made all the difference and added a lot of strength. I also made the control wheel, this was made with 0.65mm copper wire and brass tube, once made the wheel was wrapped with 0.18mm copper wire, a small button was also added to the right side of the wheel with an electric cable (don't know what it was for). I added the ignition leads to the plugs and magneto, I made the plug lead connectors from 0.4mm brass tube flattened at one end and drilled to fit the plug.

Des.

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-NYKgHsBARYs/Ui66WccZvCI/AAAAAAAAI6M/ywC1wKOhe3o/s800/spinne%2520x%252034.jpg)

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/--YnMgLcgJC8/UjDzBp738HI/AAAAAAAAI7A/JiJddIqCvE4/s800/spinne%2520x%252039.jpg)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-3IooBkJHWjA/UjDzCBt2nwI/AAAAAAAAI7M/sqobP41eaSw/s800/spinne%2520x%252040.jpg)

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-tBkEIH9PyIo/UjDzC-DprcI/AAAAAAAAI7U/WVi3QXP6T7c/s800/spinne%2520x%252042.jpg)

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-o0oS8hEHwz8/Ui66XXC1UeI/AAAAAAAAI6c/X7ZfzaESl4I/s800/spinne%2520x%252037.jpg)
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: LindsayT on September 12, 2013, 11:53:43 AM
Great work, Des!

How do your drill such precise holes in the brass tube?

Lindsay
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Des on September 12, 2013, 11:58:43 AM
Thanks Bo and Lindsay, your comments are much appreciated.

The little button is probably an engine kill button.  I drill the brass tube using new tungsten carbide drill bits, they are extremely sharp and will drill through brass tube with just half a dozen twists between the fingers, but they are very brittle and will break easily.

Des.
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: LindsayT on September 12, 2013, 12:16:40 PM
Interesting that you don't use a jig. Thanks for the explanation.

LT
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Des on September 12, 2013, 03:18:06 PM
A trial fit of the propeller, this is a Doug Craner laminated wood propeller. I also made the fuel tank today, it is made from two left over bombs cut in half then joined together, still needs a bit of a tidy up and paint. I made and fitted the cable brackets which are now fitted to the top of each mast, they are made from brass sheet.

Des.

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-WFcMTVEh3oU/UjFNR5DAoKI/AAAAAAAAI70/ZI9s_fFTHBQ/s800/spinne%2520x%252043.jpg)

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-8YDGH7hhF_A/UjFNR2ARUlI/AAAAAAAAI78/bBJ1ABV98xg/s800/spinne%2520x%252045.jpg)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-FuVk1ztMJ2M/UjFNS-5SCoI/AAAAAAAAI8I/feghIZSQnSs/s800/spinne%2520x%252046.jpg)
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: IvotB on September 12, 2013, 05:56:33 PM
Nice progress, Des,

You forgot to mention your excellent woodgrain on the fuselage frame. I like the control wheel a lot. Will be difficult to reproduce in 1:72.

regards,
Ivo
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Ernie on September 12, 2013, 09:27:18 PM
Absolutely beautiful, Des! The steering wheel is a joy to behold.
anxious to see the next updates.

Cheers,
Ernie :)
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: lone modeller on September 13, 2013, 02:58:09 AM
This is simply an amazing project - an absolute joy to watch one so skilled in a large number of different techniques.
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Zabu on September 13, 2013, 09:15:04 AM
Very nice updates.

Cheers
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: mike in calif on September 13, 2013, 11:16:56 AM
Nice work Des. Sort of gives me something to work towards. Long way to go.....
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Andrew H on September 13, 2013, 06:34:48 PM
Hi Des - I am as much in awe of your wonderful work on this project as I am in all your other builds. Something to aspire too.
Regards - Andrew
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Des on September 15, 2013, 10:23:39 PM
I have taken a few more small steps, this time with the radiators. I used guitar strings for the radiator cores, this is the phosphor bronze wound wire string, the centre wire is stainless steel. The first photo shows the radiators compared to a match for size, the next photo shows a trial fit and the final photos show the radiators painted and fitted to the airframe, plumbing will be fitted next. Note also that the control wheel is fitted and the seat is painted.

Des.

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-XoVx0GeFhJk/UjUmRCC4aDI/AAAAAAAAI-0/2qx38IubCuk/s900/spinne%2520x%252056.jpg)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-xgUOpobVe4o/UjWlBs5XDLI/AAAAAAAAI_Y/rrKbfUqszvE/s800/spinne%2520x%252059.jpg)

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-mgTnyD3SVcs/UjWlBnG8QFI/AAAAAAAAI_g/jW2IVHu7CG4/s800/spinne%2520x%252057.jpg)

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-jAniRlmOGU4/UjWlBq_xu5I/AAAAAAAAI_c/OLcjf2tTLkY/s800/spinne%2520x%252058.jpg)
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: IanB on September 15, 2013, 11:19:53 PM
Gorgeous as usual Des!
 That's a very laid-back pilot's seat - maybe to lull him into a false sense of comfort and take his mind off what may happen to him if his radiators sprung a leak....

Ian
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Nigel Jackson on September 15, 2013, 11:38:58 PM
This is just breathtaking  Des.

Were Anthony Fokker himself alive today then ........

Best wishes
Nigel
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: pepperman42 on September 16, 2013, 01:12:53 AM
Just catching up on this amazing build. It still reminds me of the guy tying a bunch of ballons to a lawn chair but there is far more thought in your project.

Steve
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: GAJouette on September 16, 2013, 01:23:11 AM
  Des,
I've doing a little catch with this outstanding project. Brilliant craftsmanship my old friend. The radiators are some very impressive works. Not much for comfort I would imagine,the pilot seat looks a bit like lawn furniture but serves it's purpose. Keep up the outstanding works.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Andi Little on September 16, 2013, 01:26:44 AM
Ack ... thud!
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Zabu on September 16, 2013, 11:36:43 AM
Great jod on the radiators. Briliant!

Cheers
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Ernie on September 16, 2013, 09:11:08 PM
The radiators are absolutely a work of art, Des.
 

Cheers,
Ernie :)
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Des on September 19, 2013, 07:23:26 PM
Thanks very much for all the nice comments, they give me the incentive to keep going.

I fixed the undercarriage today, I used a set of Fokker E.III wheels from John Vojtech (umm-usa) using his white O Rings for the tyres, the wheels are very well made. I have also fitted some of the rigging to the upper masts and fuel tank, turnbuckles are fitted to every line.

Des.

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-DXlAm8UJ7qg/UjrAmNKhl-I/AAAAAAAAJHw/J4gcELDwuZA/s800/spinne%2520x%252062.jpg)

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-mEKLEI4dR4A/UjrAmAPLoTI/AAAAAAAAJHs/xTX6cuaLujo/s800/spinne%2520x%252063.jpg)

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-VQ42tlCuHMw/UjrAnLeGsoI/AAAAAAAAJH8/G5HVzfVlgL8/s800/spinne%2520x%252065.jpg)
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Gisbod on September 19, 2013, 09:21:54 PM

Absolutely incredible work Des :o

A real gem..  :D

Guy
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Zabu on September 19, 2013, 10:53:32 PM
This is Art in its best!

Lovely!

Cheers
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: rhallinger on September 19, 2013, 11:01:34 PM
Des:

I just spent last weekend looking over closely a full-size original Bleriot XI and a Hanriot 1910 monoplane at Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome in New York, USA.  Your Fokker looks just like the real things from that era--I'm not puffing; it really does.  Outstanding modeling Sir!  Very well done. ;D 

Cheers,

Bob
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Ernie on September 20, 2013, 12:36:21 AM
Amazing work, des! I am enjoying following you along with this marvel.  The new wheels
look perfect on her.  I can see needing a few of those in the future. ;)  The whole structure
of the aeroplane just looks real.  I can't get over what you have done and I am waiting
anxiously for the next update.  Thanks so much!

Cheers,
Ernie :)
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: coyotemagic on September 20, 2013, 02:44:08 AM
Truly astonishing craftsmanship, Des!  Another early gem in the making.  Maybe a Bristol Boxkite next?  ;) http://video.defence.gov.au/?mediaId=cc26557c-49db-49ff-8954-bc67bf890185
Just something to think about, mate. 8)
Cheers,
Bud
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: pepperman42 on September 20, 2013, 05:37:24 AM
Amazing work.

Steve
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: quentin on September 20, 2013, 09:37:52 AM
scratch building is the ultimate level of modelling, and what you're doing is a masterpiece! respects!
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: PrzemoL on September 22, 2013, 08:00:57 AM
Des, what you do here is simply amazing! Yet one more fantastic project in the making.
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: IvotB on September 23, 2013, 03:59:47 AM
Des and others,

Today I stumbled on an article that was written about the construction of the 1:72 Historic Wings kit of the Spin. Rob Hamann discovered similar defects on the kit as I did, but it is interesting to see how he solved those. Question is whether or not the Historic Wings is value for money. I will finish mine sometime and it will be a nice model of the Spin.

For those interested see this link (http://www.hollandaircraft.nl/F79%20Fokker%20Spin%201912.pdf)

regards,
Ivo
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Des on September 23, 2013, 11:35:52 AM
Thanks very much Ivo for the link to the build, there is no way I could build in 1:72 scale. The build shows a few details which I can use on my model, all information is greatly appreciated.

Des.
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: lone modeller on September 24, 2013, 06:56:16 AM
This model is mind-blowing. It has blown every fuse in my mind (and you say that you could not build in 1/72 scale.....? I think that you could teach the rest of us more than a few things in that scale).

Mere words cannot convey my respect for your skills....

Please keep up these excellent and inspirational posts.
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: RAGIII on September 26, 2013, 12:50:14 AM
Des,
From the viewpoint of a mere Mortal Modeler your work is just too good to describe! This is Truly a work of Modeling Excellence!!
Too good for me to even think of a Superlative that does your work Justice!
RAGIII
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Steven Robson on September 26, 2013, 03:31:52 PM
Hi Des

Yes, I do like this Fokker spider, a most magnificent build Des, enjoying this one very much.

I also like those little white rubber tyres, would love to get my hands on some of these.

Happy Landings
Steven Robson
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Des on September 29, 2013, 08:02:58 PM
Thanks very much for all the very kind comments.

I have fixed the tail to the airframe and commenced the tail rigging. I am using 0.12mm monofilament for the rigging, each line has a turnbuckle so there will be plenty of them once the job is done. Because the tail is mounted only at the very front of the tail fixing it was a problem. I drilled two 0.6mm holes through the tail and frame and inserted lengths of 0.6mm brass tube, I then used CA to hold it in place, this allowed enough strength for me to flip the model over and apply some 5 minute epoxy to the underside of the tail where it touches the frame. Once dry it was quite strong and then the rigging did the rest. I still need to add the tail warping cables, there will be eight on top and eight on the bottom of the warping elevator, they will fit into the leather reinforcing patches.

Des.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ahQZoXi0Fm8/Ukf3ki5xU3I/AAAAAAAAJPo/jFdx1JNtOFE/s800/spinne%2520x%252084.jpg)

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-6J0llHAUklI/Ukf3kcvxOGI/AAAAAAAAJPQ/pQ4nu16mwZs/s800/spinne%2520x%252085.jpg)

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-2ZiHe5tT9lI/Ukf3l1R33GI/AAAAAAAAJP4/-IsqAQPngr8/s800/spinne%2520x%252089.jpg)

Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Andi Little on September 29, 2013, 08:13:32 PM
You Sir ........................ are completely mad! ............................................................... ;)
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Gisbod on September 29, 2013, 09:10:23 PM

Incredible Des  :o

I don't know what else to say..

Guy

Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: rhallinger on September 29, 2013, 10:41:28 PM
That's a museum piece for sure!  Well done would be an understatement Des. ;)  Perhaps awe-inspiring?!

I really am impressed with the thought, analysis and planning that goes in to your efforts to build something in miniature.  That's really a large part of modeling, particularly from scratch.  Your handling of the tail attachment was masterful.  Outstanding work, as always.

Regards,

Bob
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: coyotemagic on September 30, 2013, 12:53:43 AM
Des, I'm thoroughly gobsmacked, and I'm a Yank and therefore don't become gobsmacked!  Awe inspiring, at the very least.
Cheers,
Bud
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: pepperman42 on September 30, 2013, 01:13:44 AM
Fair suck o' the sav

Steve
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Nigel Jackson on September 30, 2013, 01:35:14 AM
This is an extraordinary piece of work Des and I read each posting about your progress with the greatest of interest and admiration.

Best wishes
Nigel
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: LindsayT on September 30, 2013, 01:54:56 AM
Good thing rigging is like crack for you, Des!

"Hey man, you got any monofilament? I really need a hit."

 :)
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: lone modeller on September 30, 2013, 06:48:04 AM
I am totally lost for words.....and that is most unusual for me. brilliant does not convey enough... but what else can I write??

Very many congratulations? More....?
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: GAJouette on September 30, 2013, 11:02:17 AM
  Des,
What can I say other than AWESOME skill and craftsmanship my old friend. You may have to resort to building 1 to 1 fully fucntional aircraft to to this Magnum Opus. Keep up the standards of excellence my old friend.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Zabu on September 30, 2013, 11:37:48 PM
It's hard to classify in this beauty words Des.

I'll just say fantabulastic!

Cheers
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Des on October 02, 2013, 10:38:48 PM
Thanks very much gentlemen for all your very kind words.

I managed to fit the eight elevator warping rigging lines to the top of the tail, still need to do the same on the bottom. I also fitted the top rudder (one to go on the bottom as well), the top rudder has the tiny Fokker decal on each side. I had to make the decals on my drawing program, it is only 7mm in length. I also fitted more rigging from the tail to the airframe.

Des.

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-tTDRLYdOr_E/UkwRa9bt99I/AAAAAAAAJW8/lV37Yid4bdo/s800/spinne%2520x%2520104.jpg)

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Q3cfu3rkGHY/UkwRbAnlhCI/AAAAAAAAJWs/uwHKyDKAo5A/s800/spinne%2520x%2520101.jpg)

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Xl2g6Idos1o/UkwRbxdw6WI/AAAAAAAAJXA/bHARKyfs2ZU/s800/spinne%2520x%2520106.jpg)

Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: IanB on October 02, 2013, 11:15:50 PM
Gorgeous work as always Des. Whoever came up with the nickname "Stringbag" for the Fairey Swordfish obviously never saw one of these!

Ian
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Chris Johnson on October 02, 2013, 11:59:43 PM
You're making great strides with this build Des. The rigging is amazing!

Cheers,

Chris
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: rhallinger on October 03, 2013, 12:47:32 AM
WHOA!!!  That rigging makes my head spin (no pun intended!). ;D  Great work Des.  She's beautiful! :)

Regards,

Bob
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: coyotemagic on October 03, 2013, 01:58:55 AM
 :o!!!
Cheers,
Bud
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Zabu on October 03, 2013, 10:01:55 AM
Superb! 

Very fine rigging.

Cheers
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: PrzemoL on October 03, 2013, 05:29:55 PM
Words fail me... What a beauty...
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Dave W on October 03, 2013, 06:25:27 PM
Words fail me Des. Every time I think you have achieved a world class finish, you go further with the detail and quality of your workmanship with your next build to produce something that is better than unique !

In terms of visual complexity and the fidelity of detail, I believe your Spinne is the best scratchbuilt so far from the Des Delatorre Aircraft Factory. I'm still calling the actual aircraft an ugly design  :) but you have captured it so faithfully in miniature, I truly believe this model deserves to be displayed in a high end aviation museum.

Simply breathtaking, magnificent work!

Bravo!

Dave Wilson
Gold Coast
Australia
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Jamo on October 03, 2013, 07:05:12 PM
Hey Des - You are the king of rigging! Patience prize for you.

Respect!

Cheers
James
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: IFF1418 on October 03, 2013, 09:31:31 PM
Dear Des,

You must have cats eyes and subtile fingers and a great notion of all kinds of material. It makes me feel so humble to see what ever so nice builds you made. Let's dream on! Many many congratulations!

Patrick
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: pepperman42 on October 03, 2013, 11:14:01 PM
Beautiful work. If this is pre-surgery then I cant imagine a few weeks from now!!!

Steve
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Ssasho0 on October 03, 2013, 11:56:26 PM
This is just too damn good! Trully inspirational.

best regards,
Sasho
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Andrew H on October 04, 2013, 01:43:08 AM
Hello Des ! Only just caught up on this build - can only echo what many others more erudite than I are saying - in a word - wow!!
When I look at my meagre output against your masterpieces I do think you have been given special powers!! Kind regards - Andrew
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Des on October 05, 2013, 04:48:42 PM
Thanks very much for all the very kind comments, they are all greatly appreciated.

I have completed all the tail rigging so now it is on to the wings, I need to do a bit of head scratching to work out the wing arrangement and to figure out how to fasten it to the airframe.

Des.

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-C4cruEbjqis/Uk-pzID41PI/AAAAAAAAJYo/1sOcB5W271c/s800/spinne%2520x%2520110.jpg)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-NednX1CAxFU/Uk-prC2P4HI/AAAAAAAAJYI/ZsX-kUDe36I/s800/spinne%2520x%2520109.jpg)

Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: GAJouette on October 05, 2013, 09:18:42 PM
  Des,
I am in absolute awe my old friend. Excellent touch with the Fokker logo on her tail.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Ronkootje on October 06, 2013, 05:04:24 PM
Realy great work! on the main wings i would use the lightest construction posible!

Regards Ron
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Jacek on October 06, 2013, 08:13:00 PM
I can see that it is possible to do the rigging and do not tangle up ;D  Great job!
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Ernie on October 06, 2013, 11:30:32 PM
Geez, turn my back for a minute and look what you've done, Des! :o
I can't get over the rigging.  I'll be shocked if you come out of this with
your eyesight and/or mind intact!  Thanks for posting this...it's good to see what can
be done by an artist.

Cheers,
Ernie :)
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Zabu on October 07, 2013, 11:30:45 AM
Absolutely gorgeous.

Amazing build from you Des... once again!

Cheers
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: xmald on October 12, 2013, 09:42:55 PM
A beautiful model of a beautiful plane. I really love your scratchbuilds Des!
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: OzkanT on October 13, 2013, 05:40:05 AM
lean with respect, master  :)
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Des on October 13, 2013, 06:38:42 AM
Thank you very much for all the very kind words, they are much appreciated.

I am awaiting arrival of some more materials to finish off the wings, hopefully the parcel will arrive around Wednesday, in the mean time I will be making heaps of turnbuckles.

Des.
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Ernie on October 13, 2013, 08:07:30 AM
Hi Des.  Your Spinne is coming along absolutely beautifully.  It is such a pleasure
to see a work of art take shape like this.  just out of curiosity, are pre-war aeroplanes
of special interest to you?  I have to admit I find just the flimsy look of the little kites
quite appealing and I am really enjoying your build. Thanks for sharing it with us!

Cheers,
Ernie :)
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Des on October 13, 2013, 08:44:43 AM
Thanks Ernie for your nice comments. I am very interested in the pre-war aircraft, they were the forerunners to the fighting machines and they paved the way for the development of more advanced types. Many very inventive people experimented with the early machines, they were flimsy to say the least and not having enough power from the engines was a real hinderance. I love the wood and wire early planes, the very basic construction, low speed, and the men who flew them, they must have been real guts men back then.

You have probably noticed the Spinne has no seat belts, it has no rudder bar, turning was purely by rudder through the control wheel, there were no ailerons or wing warping, there was elevator warping but no instruments at all, the fuel gauge was the old tried and true glass tube on the side of the fuel tank. The engine only produced 50hp, this was enough to lift the aircraft plus two people, the poor passenger had to sit between the two radiators and directly behind the engine which had no exhaust pipes, there were no windscreens either.

Here is a great photo of the very young Anthony Fokker sitting in his Spinne which is the type I am trying to reproduce with my model. Notice that Anthony has an instrument strapped to his leg, the throttle lever is beside his left leg, this is what I call basic flying.

Click the photo for a much larger and clearer image.

Des.

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-W1ymLCUQ_L8/UlnQfD3AUwI/AAAAAAAAJbM/w-iF1cK8y6Y/s1200/spinne%2520pic%2520x%25201.jpg)
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: lone modeller on October 14, 2013, 01:22:23 AM
As you have written Des the early machines were very basic and must have taken a great deal of courage to fly, especially as the engines were not particularly reliable and had a tendency to fail. The risks that those early pilots took were considerable - sadly many lost their lives - so to perform stunts and loops was even more remarkable. The lack of instruments and straps meant that flying really was done by feel and instinct and had a real element of danger - I remember reading recently the record of a WW1 pilot who said that after take off he rarely looked at his instruments - he used the sound of the engine and the wind on his face to sense whether all was well!!

What is more, with new designs, the pilots taxied them on the ground, made a few adjustments and then tried to take off! If the aeroplane took to the air that was a success. Control and design was basic  - indeed the maxim seems to have been - "if it looks right, it probably is right" and it usually was. Materials used in construction were also pretty basic by today's standards: piano wire was used because it was so strong, linen because it was light and strong, and wood because craftsmen knew how to shape and join it. When one looks at the designs of mid 1914 and compare them with designs of early 1919 it becomes very obvious how technology had moved on: the pilots were no less brave or adventurous however! Like you I like the primitive look of these early machines with all of the bits and pieces hanging off here and there, and all of the wires holding them together. They make very interesting and challenging models to build.

Your model really is a wonder to behold - you are making a fantastic achievement with it - I look on in awe and am left speechless that such work can be accomplished.
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: mike in calif on October 15, 2013, 12:45:27 AM
Des, Nice work! I feel a little foolish getting stressed on my DH-9 after seeing this. However- excellent stuff to look at, and good stuff for trying to improve one's own efforts. This machine does make the Eindekker look very sophisticated though!
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: GAJouette on October 15, 2013, 05:02:37 AM
  Des,
While looking at the photo of Fokker's Spinne it occured to me this must be the genesis of the expression "Wind in your hair and bugs in your teeth" Thanks for sharing a great photo my old friend.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Des on October 15, 2013, 08:51:48 AM
The wings are now finished, they were very simple to make, they are sitting on the bench in the photo just to show the size, they are not large wings. I used 0.85mm steel wire for the wing mounts, they were bent to shape then attached to the undercarriage legs, the original aircraft used U bolts so I used 0.13mm copper wire which gives a strong but neat connection. I will be using 1.2mm brass tubes for the spars, these will slip over the steel wire wing mounts, it's the 1:2mm brass tube that is holding me up at the moment, I am still awaiting deliveries.

Des.

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-s21IpjfI97k/UltLcE3SVaI/AAAAAAAAJcY/YoGN7YqX55g/s800/spinne%2520x%2520126.jpg)

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-daF9v6_IqpA/UltLb_EGkVI/AAAAAAAAJcM/HvcrUzgaAkM/s800/spinne%2520x%2520125.jpg)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-9zfGS2O7Upo/UltLaF6vziI/AAAAAAAAJcA/1KwaYtzbvAU/s800/spinne%2520x%2520122.jpg)
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: rhallinger on October 15, 2013, 11:45:13 AM
This is amazing work Des!  How did you make the wings themselves?  I love the look of these spindley pioneer craft, and you have truly captured it with this bird, er, arachnid. ;D. Very well done!!!

Regards,

Bob
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Ernie on October 15, 2013, 10:32:17 PM
Wonderful!  I can't wait to see the wings on.

Cheers,
Ernie :)
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: IvotB on October 16, 2013, 12:48:54 AM
Absolutely wonderful model! Especially all scratch build parts and the rigging and control wires.

In this scale though the elevator looks a bit on the thick side. It is just one sheet of linen over steel tubes. Size and shape are spot on.

regards,
Ivo
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Des on October 16, 2013, 06:15:58 AM
Ivo, the tail is made up of steel tubes and bamboo rods then covered with linen, the edges appear to be thick because there is frame right along the edge so the fabric can be wrapped around it.

Bob, the wings are made from two layers of 0.25mm styrene sheet cut to shape and glued together, the leading edge curve is done by wrapping it around a length of brass rod, once the glue is dry the wing retains its shape. The ribs on top of the wing are done with 1.0mm half round styrene strips while the bottom ribs are 1.0mm rond styrene strips. The simulated leather reinforcing patches are painted on using Humbrol No.62 Leather.

Des.
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: lone modeller on October 16, 2013, 06:33:31 PM
If I can add my six-penniworth.....well...... Amazing and wonderful are not adequate.

Very many congratulations on your sheer ingenuity at solving the many problems that you have had to deal with. Makes having a wing and booms drop off seem like a walk in the park.
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Nigel Jackson on October 16, 2013, 07:10:55 PM
An image of this magnificent Fokker Spinne would make a great logo for the website/forum Des (a bit like the penny farthing bike for the iconic  television series, The Prisoner) . Presumably some of the 25 Spinnes built were in service at the start of the war?

Best wishes and in awe.

Nigel
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: GAJouette on October 16, 2013, 09:40:05 PM
  Des,
Like Nigel I'm in absolute awe my old friend. Surely makes me think about trashing my progress to date on my Voisin. Building the fuselage framing from brass would surely be better than my efforts in plastic. Before I forget again,excellent process of the wing construction you've used too. Looking forward to the next oustanding update.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: PrzemoL on October 16, 2013, 10:38:40 PM
Every single update in this marvelous thread makes my jaw drop deeper and deeper. It is one of the best WW1 builds I have ever seen. Breathtaking, Des!
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Zabu on October 17, 2013, 05:14:18 AM
It's hard to find words that make any justice your model.

This is the very top of modeling made by one of the skilled modelers that i know. The quality of the build and the beauty in those pics are breath taking (at least for me).

A real pleasure to see this build taking shape. I can't get tired of looking those pics. Fantastic Des.

Cheers.
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: rhallinger on October 17, 2013, 06:08:29 AM
Gaze at those photos a bit.  It really does look like the real thing, doesn't it?

Cheers,

Bob
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: pepperman42 on October 17, 2013, 06:10:51 AM
Great progress Des. She looks fragile but your construction looks very sound and will keep her nice and straight. Drag a guitar pick across her and see if you get a tune!!

Steve
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Gisbod on October 17, 2013, 06:17:43 AM

Just stunning Des..

You really ought to enter this in a major competition.

Guy
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Des on October 17, 2013, 08:27:40 PM
Thank you for all the very kind comments, I really appreciate them.

The wings are now fitted, fitment was extremely easy and the wing assembly is quite strong. As you can see, the wings are just a big flat slab with a curve at the leading edge, no ailerons or wing warping but plenty of dihedral, wing sweep and lots of rigging to come.

Des.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-7fxe6DNMf4Y/Ul-iul2xWrI/AAAAAAAAJjY/xTLoJjlE7g0/s800/spinne%2520x%2520129.jpg)

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-1J7IK1tr9AA/Ul-iuQA8P8I/AAAAAAAAJjQ/J_fao75seHw/s800/spinne%2520x%2520127.jpg)

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-e6x1GDjBKQI/Ul-ivKLJ7RI/AAAAAAAAJjw/3Olqjo84wjg/s800/spinne%2520x%2520130.jpg)
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Ernie on October 17, 2013, 10:27:58 PM
The Spinne looks amazing with the wings attached, Des!  Wonderful work and
excellent progress on a lovely little aeroplane.  I didn't realise that she had such
a pronounced dihedral.  Do you think that for an inherent stability or easier maneuverability?

Cheers,
Ernie :)
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: coyotemagic on October 18, 2013, 02:43:12 AM
Truly remarkable, Des!  Just when I think it impossible to top your last project, you prove me wrong!  This belongs in one of the Great technology museums of the world.  Here, it would be the Smithsonian.
Cheers,
Bud
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Des on October 18, 2013, 07:09:57 AM
Thanks Ernie and Bud for your very kind words.

Ernie, Anthony Fokker was very much ahead in time with his thinking of flight characteristics with his early aircraft designs. This particular Spinne had a very pronounced dihedral and wing sweep both factors which improve aircraft stability in flight, he must have experimented quite a lot with these early Spinne models as each one was slightly different to the next. He had a brilliant mind in the very early days of manned flight learning from practical experiences.

Des.
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: lone modeller on October 18, 2013, 09:30:24 PM
I agree with coyotemagic - this really does stand with the finest of scale models.
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: IFF1418 on October 19, 2013, 07:24:43 PM
Hello Des,

This is modelling which only the very best can produce. It is awesome in detail and finishing. In one word : amazingly beautifull!

Kind regards

Patrick
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Des on October 19, 2013, 07:31:34 PM
Now that my eye is fixed I managed to complete all the rigging today. There is quite a bit of rigging and dozens of turnbuckles, but it all went together very well. I have posted one picture here with the remainder of the finished model photos in the Completed Model board. http://forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com/index.php?topic=2489.new#new

I would like to thank all those who took the time to visit my build log and a special thank you to all those who posted very nice comments.

Please click the picture for a larger image.

Des.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-STPvML0iZig/UmJPQbrHktI/AAAAAAAAJlk/5DjgorxeS-4/s1000/spinne%2520x%2520142.jpg)
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: coyotemagic on October 20, 2013, 12:02:56 AM
As I shift my gaze from this remarkable image on my screen to the pathetic little Fokker D.VII on my bench, I feel totally inadequate, yet encouraged and thrilled to be able to witness such modeling magic.  Congratulations, Des.  She's magnificent.
Cheers,
Bud
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Ernie on October 20, 2013, 12:17:37 AM
Des, all I can say is your Spinne is awe inspiring.  It has been an amazing
build and very enjoyable to see it progress.  Thank you so much and I look
forward to your next project.

Cheers,
Ernie :)
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: LindsayT on October 20, 2013, 07:25:28 AM
I just don't know where to start. I'm happy for you, Des. It looks like one of your most complicated builds, and yet we find out at the end the you did it all with what could have been a pretty serious health problem. No whining, though; just a whole lot of perseverance and dedication that we could all learn from. I don't think this aircraft shows your talent as a modeller, I think it shows your character as a person.

Bravo.

Lindsay
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Des on October 20, 2013, 08:03:48 AM
Thanks very much Bud, Ernie and Lindsay for your kind and thoughtful words.

Lindsay, your words have touched me deeply and I thank you.

Des.
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: ALBATROS1234 on October 20, 2013, 03:56:05 PM
excellent work des. you build with a purpose, in other words at an amazing rate especially for the amount of detail you have crammed in. i have been lurking as i do since the beginning, not posting too much but believe me i have been checking in here and on the main original site, which i have saved in my favorites as "beeza models" i remember following many of your builds way back on the drome, i first remember on your wnw  bristol fighter build thinking "this guy is good" and oh how far you have come.all i can say is i raise my glass to you .CHEERS
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Jamo on November 26, 2013, 06:14:58 PM
Link to a video which shows a replica Spinne flying (narrative is in Dutch)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zSBjnx7iDg#t=309
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Des on November 26, 2013, 06:40:34 PM
Thanks James for the link, it is actually nice to see the Spinne flying, it appears to fly quite well, Anthony Fokker certainly knew what he was doing when he designed these early aeroplanes, but I imagine it would be a fair weather flyer only.

Des.
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Jamo on November 26, 2013, 06:56:19 PM
Yes I thought they were quite brave flying it. Gene DeMarco wouldn't build/fly a Fokker EIII because of the wing warping. Not really enough control if things go wobbly
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: LindsayT on November 27, 2013, 12:19:41 PM
I found myself thinking, "dude, a bit of safety wire on the turnbuckles is the least of your worries!

But seeing that crazy kite in the air...it just looked like it belonged there. My already high admiration for men like Fokker just tripled.

Thanks for posting.
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Ernie on November 27, 2013, 10:03:43 PM
Now wouldn't that be an experience!  You're right, Des.  It is a good (nice weather) flyer. ;)
Thanks for posting, James.

Cheers,
Ernie :)
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: sobrien on December 01, 2013, 12:53:59 AM
Mossie, who is a member here now, has done up some CAD drawings of the V-1. Also WW! Aero has some drawings available. Just saying.

Sean
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: Jamo on December 21, 2013, 10:43:45 AM
(http://users.skynet.be/tintinpassion/VOIRSAVOIR/Avion1/images_avion1/040_Avion1.jpg)
Title: Re: 1:32 Fokker Spinne (Spider)
Post by: UFAG on December 31, 2013, 03:47:07 PM
Des...the spinne...a jewel...!!!
cheers..UFAG