forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com
WW1 Aircraft Modeling => Under Construction => Topic started by: smperry on April 05, 2020, 11:12:02 AM
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The first WWI aviation story I ever heard was about Frank Luke, "The Arizona Balloon Buster". I was 8 or so and somehow was given a book of WWI flying stories written simply enough I could read them with only a little help. Made quite the impression on me. Later in life I came to appreciate someone who could tick off Management so much that all they could do was to give him the Medal of Honor and name an Air Force base after him. The guy was a little bit of all right in my book. So whether it was one of several airplanes that Luke flew, the kid was rough on them, or just one of the other squadron machines parked handily for picture taking; the plane that the CSM decal sheet depicts is associated with Luke, if only through a single photo.
Back in my other plastic modeling life I built this same kit with the same goodies from CSM. It was a Kit in the thin white box which my Stepfather bought new in the 1960s and gave to me 30 off years later. It was a kacki plastic and the big solid wing was warped. I recall building a special box in which I out the wing and connected it to a hair dryer to warm the thing up sufficiently to get it to lay flat. Worked too. I did up the interior nicely even including a wooden mallet on a chain for clearing jammed guns.
I still have a Ray Rimmel article on converting the more rounded wing tips of the early version Revell presents to the more squared off looking tips of a late model Spad XIII as were supplied to the US by France. In addition I have the Datafile, the Profile publications booklet and other references including the Big French Aircraft of WWI.
(http://i.imgur.com/vT2btW8.jpg) (https://imgur.com/vT2btW8)
Thanks to Dave Vosburgh on the WWI Modeling List I 'm now the proud owner of a sheet of CSM Luke decals for the 1:28 Spad along with a Martin Digymer Gremont prop and som PE. An order to CSM brought a resin 1:28 Hisso and more PE. All the trimmings here.
BTW, I ended up with 2 sets of CSM Rickenbacker decals for this model. Holler if you need them and they are yours.
(http://i.imgur.com/IoQvqXh.jpg) (https://imgur.com/IoQvqXh)
As I awaited the arrival of goodies in the mail, I decided to attempt to do something with the 3 figures that come with the kit. Not my forte, but I do want to learn. I started by gluing the ill fitting halves together and used some tiny clothes pins, available on the arts and crafts isle in Walmart, to hold the figures together. Liberal use of liquid cement helped soften things so I got closed seams except for a few places that will require putty.
(http://i.imgur.com/rfJ1NDa.jpg) (https://imgur.com/rfJ1NDa)
(http://i.imgur.com/lzEcWgS.jpg) (https://imgur.com/lzEcWgS)
That is where I am at this point. More to come as I get it done.
sp
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I really enjoy these Builds that are a "trip down memory lane"! It amazes me that so many of us modeled this Revell series so long ago, I built the original 3 in the 60's and to this day the Kits still measure up pretty well. I'm looking forward to see what you do with this one sp!
Cheers,
Lance
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I hear you Lance. I just this hour finished a Revell SM-62 Snark. I picked it up at the LHS on a nostalgic whim for $9.95. Had so much fun building it, I checked the web to see if other missile kits I remembered were available, Yeah for up to $150.00. Snarks being in the 48 -79 dollar range. Nostalgia seems to pay...for someone anyway.
I built this kit before and had a model I was proud of, but like we say in the RC end of the hobby, "Every model has an expiration date". The 1st Spad expired early. Let's see if I can do it again or was the first one a happy fluke. As always, I am open to comments, compliments and heckling.
And now that I have posted a photo of all my references, I suppose I had better spend a day or two rereading the parts that will apply.
sp
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After a preliminary perusal of my references, I just had to check out the CSM resin Hisso kit. You don't need me to tell you what happened next. So I'm dressing parts and checking fit and I come to look over the cylinder banks. There are molded on spark plug harnesses leading right up to perfectly nice stickey outie spark plugs. Careful painting and maybe, You won't see that much even with the top cowl piece being removable. OTOH maybe I can scrape the molded harness off and replace it with something 3 dimensional I made. Even better idea. Why don't I try making something 3d and if it looks good and I can make 4 that look good, then go to scraping the molded harnesses off. Much better idea, leave myself an alternate plan B.
Here is the CSM Resin Hisso kit all laid out.
(http://i.imgur.com/aNod6vk.jpg) (https://imgur.com/aNod6vk)
These are the molded on spark harnesses.
(http://i.imgur.com/wBowwVI.jpg) (https://imgur.com/wBowwVI)
This is a harness made from 20 thou rod.
(http://i.imgur.com/YvIFxfH.jpg) (https://imgur.com/YvIFxfH)
And this is the test harness with a bit of alliphatic wood glue to smooth the joints a bit and painted. No idea what colors are right, this is just to show up against the dark resin. I'm still undecided. Should I make 4 more or should I paint the molding?
(http://i.imgur.com/xJcVXBp.jpg) (https://imgur.com/xJcVXBp)
Comments and suggestions welcome even blunt ones :-)sp
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I see you have the same set of references that I do
There are some nice images here:
http://memorial.flight.free.fr/SpadXIIIuk.html (http://memorial.flight.free.fr/SpadXIIIuk.html)
(http://memorial.flight.free.fr/gallery/spadXIII/res2001/d10.jpg)
I'm not sure how much of the detail is 1918 though, some might be modern to ensure a reliable flying aeroplane
Richard
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SP, I think it looks fine but the ultimate decision is yours. Do You Like your results enough to move forward?
RAGIII
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Richard
Thanks so much for the link to all the Spad photos. I see there is a different looking plug wire harness on that Hisso, one that looks easier to duplicate. The nice thing about scratching your own details is that you can keep refining your original idea or trying a different way until you get something you can live with.
Rick
So in light of a clear color photo, (seems like cheating after trying to discern detail from a 100 year old B&W photo), and some research I did years back when I dressed up a 1/48 Linberg Hisso for use in an N.9h, I think the plug wire harness in the color photo is more accurate than either the molded on detail or my attempt to duplicate it. So back I go to the bench and we'll see what can be done.
sp
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Looking forward to the New Harness SP!
RAGIII
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If I may heckle: I think that if you replaced the 20 thou rod (over-scale) with some thin copper wire you could certainly improve on the leads. I think that painting those mouldings would be rather difficult and not as realistic as 3d pieces.
I had not realised that Revell used the same box art for the 1/28 Spad as the 1/72 model: I only ever built the latter - never saw the 1/28. I did however build the Fokker Triplane. IMHO all 4 kits were of aircraft which were too late and therefore too modern - I would have liked a BE 2c or DH 2, FE 2 Eindekker etc - MUCH more interesting!
Stephen.
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Right you are Stephen. THe 20 thou rod is out of scale. And according to the engine photos that Richard sent the link to, the molded on harness is wrong anyway, which agrees with some research I looked into way back when. Nice thing about bad ideas is they don't take any room in the trash when you throw them out.
The photos show a straight tube below the row of plugs with smaller diameter red leads coming out of the tube and running up to the plugs.
As an experiment to see if it is workable, I took a short piece of 0.6mm brass tube and filed a small notch in the side of it. Then a small length of fine copper wire was dipped in CA and applied to the notch. I think it worked well and a little thick red paint on those fine wire leads will put them more in scale.
Now to go manufacture 4 plug wire harnesses. ( still haven't scraped off the moldings just in case)
sp
(http://i.imgur.com/xe9De2N.jpg) (https://imgur.com/xe9De2N)
(http://i.imgur.com/4PwFLvo.jpg) (https://imgur.com/4PwFLvo)
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Your decision seems to be wise SP! Looking good!
RAGIII
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That's much better
Richard
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Thanks guys. Sometimes the right material makes all the difference. I knew if I putzed around long enough I'd find something workable. I didn't even take photos of some of the ideas I tried that came out really badly :-)
sp
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I knew if I putzed around long enough I'd find something workable.
That's how I do it
Richard
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After an evening of fooling around I have one plug wire harness done. I'm good with it as it is at the limit of my ability to work small. I refer you to the link Richard sent rather than post photos from there directly on the forum, but check out the engine photos. The plug wire harnesses are most noticeable.
http://memorial.flight.free.fr/SpadXIIIuk.html
(http://i.imgur.com/jqqn13U.jpg) (https://imgur.com/jqqn13U)
While the paint was drying on the cylinder banks and plug wire harness, I drilled out my Digmeyer prop. He marked exact center with a small hole on the back side which proved invaluable in getting the drill press centered to drill a straight hole.both fromt and back prop bosses fit perfectly and now the prop and front boss are sealed away in a plastic bag for when they are needed later.
(http://i.imgur.com/m45omfp.jpg) (https://imgur.com/m45omfp)
With that I'm knocking off for the night before I do some real damage.
sp
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Great improvement to both kit details and your first attempt ( and some more unseen ones I gather 😃).
/Fredrik
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Thanks Fredrik.
Some of the best motivation to improve is seeing just how bad some first attempts can be. The whole key to scratch building details is knowing you can throw away as many attempts as it takes to get it right. Makes me wonder how many 1:28 scale Hisso plug wire harnesses would it take to fill the trash can under my bench? I only need three more.
sp
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Great start on this, SP. Sometimes making the details correct is the easy way.
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Thank you Ken.
Maybe not so easy. I did a Google search on Hispano Suza Engines and came up with more photos than you can shake a stick at. I noticed at least 3 different styles of plug wire harnesses. One was like the molded on detail of the CSM kit. One was like the straight conduit with wires coming out like I made and there was one that was simply the wires bound together with little bands just before each wire peals off to it's appointed plug. That last one has the appeal of the 4 wires going direct from plug to magneto and not having to attach 4 wires to the back of the 0.6mm brass tube as they go to the magnetos. Hmmmm. This may be a better option.
Only way to find out is to try to make one and see if if it looks better or worse. The COVID19 has stayed away from here so far, but it would seem the dreaded AMS has struck. So far it is fun, but if it ceases to be fun, I will build one of those SnapTite, no glue needed model kits.
Unfortunately I didn't see any plug wires on the older looking, unrestored examples, so this may all be an exercise in futility, (as is much AMS driven detail dithering). So I will make a third harness primarily so that not having made one will not come back to haunt me after I have moved on with the build.
sp
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Are the ones down the inside of the vee different to the ones on the outside?
Richard
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Richard
On every photo I have seen with the harnesses, no matter the style, they appear to be the same inside or outside the V.
sp
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I had not realised that Revell used the same box art for the 1/28 Spad as the 1/72 model
Here are 14 different box arts : https://tinyurl.com/tz2vdxy
Nothing beats the original 1957 issue, however.
Gene K
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Looks like Revell has gotten a lot of mileage out of those molds.
I spent the day working on a different plug wire harness. Do a Google search on Hispano Suza Engines and you will find one with yellow leads and no conduit. Like I said earlier, both my examples are restored and the plug harnesses are likely not exactly like the originals. (As a pilot, spark plug leads are something modern I would want in a flying replica). So I don't know where to go. Any unrestored engine photos that do show plug wires, show them as nasty looking hundred year old wires semi attached.
So here is the harness supposedly representing yellow wires held together with small black clamos and no conduit.
(http://i.imgur.com/8hsNkIk.jpg) (https://imgur.com/8hsNkIk)
And here are the two harnesses for comparison.
(http://i.imgur.com/fafqRFz.jpg) (https://imgur.com/fafqRFz)
Both are equally tedious to make and both have contrasting colors that stand out. If someone point me at a period photo that shows the harnesses when they were in service I would appreciate it. I'm going back through all my books and looking to see if there is a shot that reveals something useful. Otherwise I will have to decide which of the two restorations I will use.
sp
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Excellent SP! I don't think I have any further info for you but I will at lest double check!
RAGIII
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Thanks Rick. I couldn't find any shots that showed the harnesses in actual service. I'm thinking they were more likely to have used some sort of conduit, so I decided to go with the white conduit with red wires. I did my due diligence and found no definitive photo of a plug wire harness in wartime service. which almost certainly guarantees somebody will come up with one right after I glue the final harness in place. So I will use only a little bit of glue and pry them off when references surface showing a different style harness. :-)
Filing notches in the brass tube made gluing the wire leads much easier. The catch here was to get all the notches evenly spaced and on the same side of the tube. First I measured a line and then marked the locations for the notches. This was covered with a piece of scotch tape. THe brass tube was cur to length and then another piece of scotch tape with one end folded over so it could be easily peeled up was placed over the tune exactly on the marked guide. The trick is to take a pair of fine tweezers and run them down the side of teh tube forcing the tape as tight to the tube as possible. This and a fingernail pressing down keep the tube from rotating while filing and ensures all three notches are on the same side of the tube. The wire pieces were glued in the notches by putting a tiny drop of kicker on the notch , dipping the end of the wire in CA and bringing the two together. I was surprised how well that worked.
Tape over the marked guide.
(http://i.imgur.com/Hp7GR2t.jpg) (https://imgur.com/Hp7GR2t)
Tube taped to guide.
(http://i.imgur.com/a6D6bgk.jpg) (https://imgur.com/a6D6bgk)
Filing the notch.
(http://i.imgur.com/E0R6uFm.jpg) (https://imgur.com/E0R6uFm)
All three notches filed on the same side of the tube.
(http://i.imgur.com/3KuTg1S.jpg) (https://imgur.com/3KuTg1S)
Wires added and painted. Will trim wires just prior to attaching the harnesses.
(http://i.imgur.com/pt9FdyD.jpg) (https://imgur.com/pt9FdyD)
As a side note, There were a couple of misfires along the way that left me with some bits of tube with notches filed in them. Just out of curiosity, I bent the tube at the notches and it bent to a right angle. A tiny dot of solder would hold it perfectly. Who's up for a strip down Fokker in 1:144th :-)
sp
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Thanks Rick. I couldn't find any shots that showed the harnesses in actual service.
(http://albindenis.free.fr/Site_escadrille/Photos3/102_Spad_Corbeaulieu_GT.jpg)
I wouldn't let that put you off adopting any particular method. The wires in tubes were used on cars of the era, and it's likely that changes at unit level happened
Richard
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Some very delicate work going on here SP (Saint Peter?:) ).
Will tag along with this one, I do like a Spad! Am contemplating a Roden 1/32 at some point in the future.
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I don't know if this will help. Obviously a Model and not a war photo. Our own Des made this one:
https://www.ww1aircraftmodels.com/page5.html
RAGIII
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Doh! I forgot to look on the forum site. Well, I lack an assortment of tiny tubes, so I guess an order to Albion Alloys is in order. In the mean time, I will work on some other part of the model. If Des could do that in 1:32, I should at least make an attempt in 1:28.
OK the three parts, crankcase & cyl. banks, are all taking a bath in brake fluid and everything else is bagged and awaiting additional supplies. I will be spending some time prowling the shop, micrometer in hand, looking for sub mm size wires and bits of plastic tube and insulation to start an organized, labeled collection.
Another concession to age and failing short term memory is to set up a TV tray in the shop to hold my laptop. The shop is in a separate building with the garage and a surprising number of details get lost in transit. One minor up side of the cat killing my laptop is that I now have 2 power supplies. I only have to carry the laptop back and forth without bumbling about with plugs and wires each trip.
I find myself firmly in the monkey see, monkey do school of modeling. I can't figure much out for myself, but I can darn sure copy a procedure I have been shown. As the photos show, Des had an incredible talent for model making, but I believe his real genius was in sharing what he knew. The clear photos and text just jump off the page, (screen), and scream, "You can do that!" Well, we're going to see.
Rick, thanks so much for pointing out that engine build, and Richard, thanks for the clear photo of the plug wire harness. That is an ungeared Hisso and perhaps the geared Hisso in the Spad XIII had conduit for it's plug wires. At this point it is less about making an exact miniature and much more about learning to work to a much greater level of detail than I have ever done before.
sp
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Rick, thanks so much for pointing out that engine build, and Richard, thanks for the clear photo of the plug wire harness. That is an ungeared Hisso and perhaps the geared Hisso in the Spad XIII had conduit for it's plug wires. At this point it is less about making an exact miniature and much more about learning to work to a much greater level of detail than I have ever done before.
sp
Oh I doubt there's much variation between the engines, however your aim to improve your modelling is a much better argument
From what I have seen of their use on cars, the tube is likely to be made of cardboard, probably varnished to keep water out. It's an insulator, won't damage the leads and is easy to work with. Choose your paint accordingly
Richard
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Richard
With the flying field closed and Walmart only a mile away, I'm at home all the time. I'm taking the opportunity to work on my modeling skills. I lost so much by not using them for the last 10 or more years. So I have nothing better to do than see how much closer I can come to what I imagine than I have been able to so far.
As I was putting the CSM resin Hisso pieces in a bag, I figured I might as well round up all the plastic kit pieces for the engine. Oh my, the kit engine is smaller than the CSM aftermarket product. As I recall, there wasn't a lot of room inside the model for the kit engine. Has me wondering. Looks like a but of judicious trial fitting is in order at an early stage. I'll see what fits and take it from there.
In the mean time while I await an order from Albion Alloys, there are 3 figures that look all glossy and green, think seasick zombies, something needs to be done, I'm starting to worry, won't open the kit box without an XActo in my hand. These guys need help. That should keep plug wire harnesses off the brain for a welcome spell.
sp
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I am certainly looking forward to what you do with all of the tubing! The figures should be an interesting challenge. I am also looking forward to seeing the results on them! As for the engine size difference you may need to thin out the kit cowling and other parts...or you could just super detail the kit Engine 8)
RAGIII
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Rick
I tack glued and trial fitted both engines. The CSM is slightly bigger but seems to fit , though as you say a little thinning of some panels and it should be fine. I was going to build both at the same time just in case, but I'm pretty sure the CSM engine will fit. I am presently scraping seams on the figures, one done and two to go. Then there will need to be filler in a few gaps. Finally something to use my Squadron green on. Once that fill and sand process gets done I'll be in uncharted territory. BTW, what is the record number of rookie figure painting mistakes that has been documented? Hey, I gotta have something to shoot for :-)
sp
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Just getting caught up on this one , those details are looking pretty darn good so far . :)
Terri
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Just as detailing the engine required supplies not in stock, I find after reviewing several online tutorials on figure painting with oils that I lack some critical tools. So those poor guys get to languish in their coat of white primer until I can acquire the correct brushes and other tools for the job. A large round engined biplane of the RC variety had a nice circular plug used for centering the cowl which I hung on to because as we all know, there will be a use for it some day and so there is.
(http://i.imgur.com/riPR1et.jpg) (https://imgur.com/riPR1et)
At least I will have something to paint them on when I begin.
So it is on to the CSM Vickers guns. The Heat/Cool/Bend procedure worked and the cooling jackets came out fitting perfectly. I will post photos when they look more like guns
sp
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Nice start on the figures with the primer SP. Looking forward to seeing those Vickers!
RAGIII
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The Vickers were going swimmingly until I noticed the PE fret said 1/32 Vickers. Mad scramble through the wastepaper basket to find the paper that came in the little plastic bag. Sure enough 1/28 Vickers it sez. So now I go to the kit and see what can be done with the kit parts. The gun part was bigger and better detailed than the CSM resin parts. the barrels, not so much. In fact the PE barrels from CSM are slightly longer. Out with the razor saw and switcho-changeo.
(http://i.imgur.com/8Aoijfz.jpg) (https://imgur.com/8Aoijfz)
The overall length is just about exactly the same as the kit piece This is critical IIRC, as the cowl piece over the motor is removable and slips under the two gun barrels when put in place, so exact size matters here. Every once and a while accidents turn out well. If I had hit a dead end on the guns, I was going to shelve the model until more ducks could be herded into a row. As it is, stay tuned for finished guns later this evening.
sp
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As advertised, 2 kit bashed Vickers guns.
sp
(http://i.imgur.com/axvey7r.jpg) (https://imgur.com/axvey7r)
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Please cut that 'hook' off the top of the Vickers. It might be trying to represent the Constantinesco trigger motor - very badly.
The SPAD used the Birkigt system driven by a rotating rod from the end of the camshaft - it looks completely different
You can see the drive rod on the port gun here:
(https://media.defense.gov/2015/Jul/16/2001258064/780/780/0/150712-F-IO108-013.JPG)
Richard
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Your Vickers look Terrific SP! Well Done!
RAGIII
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Thank you Rick.
Richard, that is a great photo, also shows the sight mounting. Thanks. I was wondering about the hook thingies. I won't be sad to see them gone. Taking a break from the Spad and fixing a broken model today. It has already progressed beyond a repair into a full blown rebuild, top wing fell off. Gee, wonder how that happened.:?
sp
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Hi SP,
I'm a bit late in on this build.
If it helps there's a lot of information in my PDF build log of Luke's SPAD.
http://igavh2.xara.hosting/#xl_xr_page_spad13
Mike
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That's a mighty fine Spad Mike. I will be going over your photos and notes carefully. Thanks so much.
I have been fooling around with some inside detail. I made the wooden structure out of strips of 1/64" ply stained and varnished. The bracing wires are 1 ib line and the turnbuckles and eyelets are Bob's. My first successful use of the little beggars. The engine bearers were painted Testors wood and then given a dry brushing of raw siena and a couple coats of Pledge. The instrument shelf is also 1/64 ply varnished with orange pledge.
Going to have to be some careful fitting and whittling to make sure all the added stuff fits with the kit parts. Having fun for now.
sp
(http://i.imgur.com/98hvEHl.jpg) (https://imgur.com/98hvEHl)
(http://i.imgur.com/6MzJAvD.jpg) (https://imgur.com/6MzJAvD)
(http://i.imgur.com/hWuIpyQ.jpg) (https://imgur.com/hWuIpyQ)
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Wow SP! That interior work looks Fantastic. Hard to tell the difference between the painted and real wood so you have been successful in Multiple respects!
RAGIII
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Thanks Rick. Finally getting some traction on this model. I'm actually getting better at manipulating those little turnbuckles. Assembly time down from 30+ min to 3 to 5 min per eyelet, tube and line assembly. I have to stop and let everything dry and get hard before doing some test fitting, trimming and notch filing, I need to ensure everything fits now that I have cluttered up the inside with a bunch of stuff. Best all paints and glues have time to set up well before Dr. Sawbones here gets to hacking and fitting. ( also not a bad idea to knock an item or three off Momma's Hunny-Do list tomorrow )
(http://i.imgur.com/XET4NUV.jpg) (https://imgur.com/XET4NUV)
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Excellent progress SP, loving the real/painted wood balance. I'm going to have a little play with eyelets and turnbuckles this weekend, you've inspired me! :)
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Great detail you've added.
Just a question - behind the cockpit, one side is aluminum and the other side is CDL. Is that how the real ones are?
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Great detail you've added.
Just a question - behind the cockpit, one side is aluminum and the other side is CDL. Is that how the real ones are?
There was a removable metal panel on the left side only for installing a camera. ( The camera option was not always fitted and was denoted by the word PHOTO stenciled on the outside bottom of the panel) On early models with rounded wing tips this panel was not there.
RAGIII
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When I first started painting the primered inside, I included the inside of the Al panel with intentions to outline the frame. However after careful fitting of parts, you can only see a tiny bit behind the seat. Instead of repainting, I just left it. That is why there is only one bracing wire as you can barely see the end with the turnbuckle behind the seat.
sp
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Like I said, the panel should be there on Lukes aircraft so even though it isn't visible you did it right ;D
RAGIII
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When I first started painting the primered inside, I included the inside of the Al panel with intentions to outline the frame. However after careful fitting of parts, you can only see a tiny bit behind the seat. Instead of repainting, I just left it. That is why there is only one bracing wire as you can barely see the end with the turnbuckle behind the seat.
sp
There should be a canvas panel behind the seat. I found a picture on this internet thing, naturally I can't find it again.
The panel stretches from side to side and from a cross brace between the longerons down to the floor
So, you can't see that panel
Richard
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When I first started painting the primered inside, I included the inside of the Al panel with intentions to outline the frame. However after careful fitting of parts, you can only see a tiny bit behind the seat. Instead of repainting, I just left it. That is why there is only one bracing wire as you can barely see the end with the turnbuckle behind the seat.
sp
There should be a canvas panel behind the seat. I found a picture on this internet thing, naturally I can't find it again.
The panel stretches from side to side and from a cross brace between the longerons down to the floor
So, you can't see that panel
Richard
Sometimes I hate you guys that research everything. Now I have to add a panel in all 3 of mine ::)
RAGIII
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Sometimes I hate you guys that research everything. Now I have to add a panel in all 3 of mine ::)
RAGIII
I'd just search some pictures until you find one without the panel
Richard
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Sometimes I hate you guys that research everything. Now I have to add a panel in all 3 of mine ::)
RAGIII
I don't hate the guys who research...just the ones who can see and discern details I usually miss from the photos they researched. :-)
sp
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Ahh, I may be wrong:
(http://memorial.flight.free.fr/gallery/spadXIII/oct.jpg)
http://memorial.flight.free.fr/SpadXIIIuk.html (http://memorial.flight.free.fr/SpadXIIIuk.html)
The SPAD VII also has that fabric locker. It is on the starboard side only. So, no panel just a fabric box
Richard
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Wow, that is much better...I just need to build three fabric boxes ;D
RAGIII
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I spent some time, profitably as it turns out, fitting nipping, grinding, sawing and hewing with a @11 the cockpit assembly and fuselage shells. I do believe I got it.
(http://i.imgur.com/GCJbk6K.jpg) (https://imgur.com/GCJbk6K)
Shedding a little flash on the matter shows the seat may be too tall and the headrest simply won't do. Thanks Mike for your excellent reference photo of that particular detail. Still working out the fabric panel behind seat, fabric storage box and oil tank. Not so sure the storage box need be represented past a closed opening.
(http://i.imgur.com/RTZC1qK.jpg) (https://imgur.com/RTZC1qK)
The instrument shelf was surprisingly amenable to adjustment and now fits well. I held off on instruments until after all the fitting. No sense in sending young Frank to war with half an airspeed indicator.
(http://i.imgur.com/xcYYVB5.jpg) (https://imgur.com/xcYYVB5)
In a fit of nearly unprecedented forethought I made sure the cowl fit was unhindered and ....wait for it... Checked that the lower wing could be installed with the joystick and rudder bar in place on the center section of the wing. It fit just fine, the joystick will be added to the support frame through the cockpit opening after the wing goes on. I even checked that for fit and feasibility.
(http://i.imgur.com/H1TqPIs.jpg) (https://imgur.com/H1TqPIs)
Knowing that the fit is good has been a big morale boost Finishing the interior work I mentioned will seem easier now.
sp
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You are making great progress SP! I think the seat does look a bit Odd. Glad to see all is fitting well. You and Richardhave me fired up to start My SPADS but I still have a bit to do on the Camel ;D
RAGIII
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Thank you Rick. I have enjoyed watching your camel build and how you got round problems to get exactly what you had in mind. I am going to amputate the top portion of the seat and make the formers and cross braces for behind the seat. I have yet to find a photo of the panel behind the seat. Could the storage bag have been mistaken for a fabric panel. It also goes from cross member to the floor at least on the right side as I see the photos. How do you plan to handle this?
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Got the seat back lowered, the cross member in place and the v looking piece in place. The head rest will be formed with putty.
(http://i.imgur.com/wdfNKrX.jpg) (https://imgur.com/wdfNKrX)
The problem at this stage is that I am not ready to glue the fuselage halves together. The head rest backing and the cross member and vee had to be fixed to only piece of three pieces, (L & R fuse sides and cockpit assembly), but all had to match up when the pieces were fitted together and eventually glued.
(http://i.imgur.com/aSyKDDn.jpg) (https://imgur.com/aSyKDDn)
(http://i.imgur.com/oHSiOWL.jpg) (https://imgur.com/oHSiOWL)
I also made a fabric storage bag/locker/boxout og plasticard to mount behind the seat on the right side.
sp
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Nice save on the seat SP. Looks much improved! Your interior is coming together quite Nicely!
RAGIII
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Rapid progress SP, I'm learning a lot about the importance of forward planning and practice fitting from this one. It's looking excellent!
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Thanks for the kind words guys. I'm having trouble getting anything done as I can only handle 30-40 min at the bench. I thought it was just my bad back, but a recent scan prompted a call from the Dr. It seems I have grown myself an eighteen millimeter diameter kidney stone. That's as big across as a US penny. And the hospital isn't doing elective surgeries at this time. So it is work a short spell and then go lie on a heating pad for a longer spell. Pain pills are strictly rationed to one a day, that leaves 21 or 22 hours a day where the only relief is a stiff drink. I'm a very occasional drinker who is fast becoming a drunk, but a happy drunk, in a shop full of models. Nothing to do but endure until TDV, (This Damn Virus), lets up and i can schedule a procedure.
Currently I am working on instruments. I am trying slices sawed off pieces of sprue and also discs punched out of plasticard for the instrument bodies. Hint, sprue isn't as round as one might assume. I need to try chucking a piece in a drill and holding it between some folded sandpaper ti see if it gets any rounder. The punched discs are working better so far. They are already white and I have a punch the exact size of the little PE beezels.
I am still gnawing on how to do the fabric panel behind the seat and the oil tank and associated piping next to the seat. The PE throttle quadrant is hugely over scale and pretty much unusable, so I get to scratch one and a compass mount for the left sidewall as well as the map holder and some other device with a crank handle on the rt fuselage side. So I'll keep chipping away at it 30 min or so at a time. Not too bad a way to work if it wasn't for my poor memory that has me spending half of each session at the bench trying to remember where it was I left off and what I intended to do next. Now what was that by the way? Oh yeah, finish drink and enjoy an hour or so of reduced discomfort.
sp
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Oh no SP, so sorry to hear about the discomfort. That's a seriously big kidney stone you've grown!
Glad you can still carry on with the build, there's nothing like a good project to distract the senses from pain.
Best wishes
Richie
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I have about done with the cockpit. just a few pipes left to put in. I managed to represent most of the major features of the cockpit. Not as well as I would have liked, but about the best I can do at this point. I need find some good aftermarket WWI instruments. The ones I had came with printed clear film that was half again as thick as the PE beezels. Rather a pain to trim. Various sizes of brass tube and rod are also lacking until Albion Alloys comes back to work. They aren't even responding to emailed requests.
(http://i.imgur.com/ix96nal.jpg) (https://imgur.com/ix96nal)
(http://i.imgur.com/tXPDNQe.jpg) (https://imgur.com/tXPDNQe)
(http://i.imgur.com/ejfVbPM.jpg) (https://imgur.com/ejfVbPM)
(http://i.imgur.com/p5x8Fic.jpg) (https://imgur.com/p5x8Fic)
(http://i.imgur.com/DbtoWIN.jpg) (https://imgur.com/DbtoWIN)
(http://i.imgur.com/LstRUTv.jpg) (https://imgur.com/LstRUTv)
Oh yes, forgot to add the hammer for unjamming guns.
(http://i.imgur.com/qZQA8lw.jpg) (https://imgur.com/qZQA8lw)
sp
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You are doing a lot to improve this old kit SP! I look forward to more!
RAGIII
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I got good and tired messing about with details and set the project aside for a couple of days. I learned that I need a good stock of instrument decals and beezels in addition to a wider selection of micro tube and rod.
Next job is to deal with the wings. The strut trenches were filled with the cut off tops and bottoms of the struts and given a good swipe of liquid glue to melt them in place seeing as they will take the holes and pins from the struts. Those will take a couple of days to cure before any sanding and filling happens.
(http://i.imgur.com/yeKPvHu.jpg) (https://imgur.com/yeKPvHu)
This, by all accounts, is a late model Spad XIII C.1 built by Bleriot and was built with the squared off wing tips at the factory. Using the full size drawings provided in the article by Ray Rimmel, there is some material to be added at the front and back corners and some original wing material to remove at the center of the tip. That will be a job for another day after I decide what I will use to add to the corners.
(http://i.imgur.com/bjZnheD.jpg) (https://imgur.com/bjZnheD)
(http://i.imgur.com/fkZKO7m.jpg) (https://imgur.com/fkZKO7m)
This is an old kit and it would be far easier to scratch build the definitive Spad than try to make one out of this old kit. So I am trying to bring out the best of what's here. In that light, I really liked the molded hinge detail. To bring that out, I used a scriber tool to scrape a gap in the hinge line of all the control surfaces leaving the surfaces attached only by the molded hinges. I was pleased with how that worked.
(http://i.imgur.com/29xKi4w.jpg) (https://imgur.com/29xKi4w)
(http://i.imgur.com/XuaTRyv.jpg) (https://imgur.com/XuaTRyv)
sp
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Nice work on the ailerons SP!
RAGIII
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I suppose the conversion from early to late production wing tips is arguably the hardest mod to make on this kit, though dealing with the huge trenches in the wings for the kit supplied struts is right up there too. Kind of nothing compared to the major surgery required for the 1:28 Fokker D.VII. I used Ray Rimmel's article on the Revell kit as a guide since it provided full size drawings in 1:28 scale. To match the outline of the drawings, I had to nip a bit off the center of the tips and them sand the remaining ends straight to provide a suitable surface for gluing on additions to the corners of the wingtips. The lower wings requires the same treatment, only on a smaller scale. Once good and cures, I was able to sand the corners to shape and then fill and sand until the join became invisible, (well at least unnoticeable without a very close look).
Here is an upper tip over the outline drawn on tracing paper. Tape marks the line to saw along.
(http://i.imgur.com/CkireoH.jpg) (https://imgur.com/CkireoH)
The end nipped from the tip. The corners sanded straight.
(http://i.imgur.com/SPlBpEw.jpg) (https://imgur.com/SPlBpEw)
One early production rounded wingtip and one modified, squared off late production wingtip. (Guess that makes it a mid production wing, at least until I get the other tip done.)
(http://i.imgur.com/fqz7lEE.jpg) (https://imgur.com/fqz7lEE)
Still sanding and filling on the other three tips.
sp
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Excellent results! Looks the part for sure! "If" I decide to do Guynemers aircraft as one of My three I have to do the opposite conversion. Still debating it at this point!
RAGIII
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Rick
The reverse would not be too bad. Sand the corners and add a little putty to the center of the tip and you would have the outline. The early to late conversion requires gluing on additional pieces strongly enough that they can be worked hard which means a joint with enough glue that it takes a while to sand down. Sometimes sanding can be relaxing at others it is a royal PITA.
sp
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Great bit of surgery SP, love the way you detailed the hinges too. Great attention to detail is bringing his old kit up to date, ancient kits terrify me now. I still have mental scars from a childhood of trying to build old Airfix 4 engined bombers.
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I hear you about the bombers. I had issues with the nose gear on a B-58 Hussler. More and more tube glue did not firm it up. The model ended up being "flown", at scale supersonic speed, in to a wall.
The hard, brittle plastic of old kits makes surgery even more difficult. I love the WmW plastic, it is so easy to work, then again you so rarely need to work it.
sp
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Great improvement over the original kit here. Your huge amount of work pais off, it’s looking great!
Andreas
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Thanks Andreas. These wingtip mods are brute force modeling at it's best. Revell put a lot into this old kit, especially for when it was made. Some of the stuff just needs to be brought out a bit. Once I settled on that as a goal, the whole project became more fun.
sp
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I really enjoying following your build SP , the extra details real add to the over feel of the build . Looking forward on the next run .
Terri
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Thanks Terri, here is the next run.
Today I received an order of Albion Alloys micro tubing from M&M Models, so I decided to give the Pup a break and get back to the Spad and finish the Hisso engine I started this project by making a hash out of.
I attempted to make plugs like Des showed in his article on detailing a Hisso. I'm not that good and ended up with a modified method that worked for me. After removing the cast plugs, I drilled a 0.5 mm hole all the way through the cyl bank. The plugs were made by stringing lengths of 05mm tube onto some surgical steel wire. A little thin CA wicked into the tube secured the tubes on the wire.
(http://i.imgur.com/YZqYMTp.jpg) (https://imgur.com/YZqYMTp)
The surgical steel wire was cut between the brass tubes and the resulting "double plugs" were inserted through the holes through the cyl banks.
(http://i.imgur.com/Rtg247x.jpg) (https://imgur.com/Rtg247x)
After painting the plugs white and trimming the surgical wires to represent the tips of the plugs, the plug wire harnesses I made earlier were added and the leads trimmed. The camera may show a bit more magnification, but to the Mk.I eyeball they look good enough to me.
(http://i.imgur.com/79mNzLF.jpg) (https://imgur.com/79mNzLF)
So I have a question to ask before it is too late to change my mind. What color should the rubber hose fittings on some of the piping be painted. They didn't put carbon black in rubber tires until after the war. I somehow don't think they were tan or pinkish gray as some WWI tires. I am thinking a reddish color as I have seen red rubber hoses. That would have come out as black on the B&W Ortho films of the day. Anyone know for sure or have strong opinions please sing out.
sp
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This version of plugs and wires is Fantastic! Your change in materials and their utilization is far superior to the earlier versions. Well Done SP!
RAGIII
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That looks great SP, looks like you're having fun adding details to the engine. I may have to steal your ideas, your solution is excellent.
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Plugs look much better ! :)
Terri
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Here is the CSM 1:28 Hisso half a step more done than it needs to be. I will have to cut away some of the external piping in order to fit it in the model. (It won't be seen, but I'll always know it was hacked :-)
Edgar, If you are watching, the kit went together very well. There was minimal parts cleanup and the details are crisp. Highly recommended to anyone contemplating this kit.
Now it is on to fitting the engine in place and closing up the fuselage.
sp
(http://i.imgur.com/5TdSIzQ.jpg) (https://imgur.com/5TdSIzQ)
(http://i.imgur.com/5A5dzFc.jpg) (https://imgur.com/5A5dzFc)
(http://i.imgur.com/xzoHW9K.jpg) (https://imgur.com/xzoHW9K)
(http://i.imgur.com/Rd9Jhl2.jpg) (https://imgur.com/Rd9Jhl2)
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Prop and Engine are really very impressive SP!
RAGIII
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Thanks Rick. I'm kinda proud of how the engine came out. The prop OTOH is a Digmayer hand made piece gotten years ago through CSM back when Eric was with us. (It took great modeling skill to get it out of the plastic bag and stick it on the prop shaft :-) Kinda feels like cheating, but it looks so good I don't care...much. Have to carve one myself soon.
sp
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Very fine modelling. Especially on the engine.
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Why thank you Sir. I have a long way to go but I'm headed in the right direction. Your builds and those of other Forum members are surely inspiring me.
sp
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What a great result SP, love to see careful work pay off. The added details really sing out. Prop looks totally cool!
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Thank you Richie. A little careful work with the dremel and the removable cowl piece fits perfectly.
(http://i.imgur.com/kTFtdMd.jpg) (https://imgur.com/kTFtdMd)
Getting the correct angles on the cylinder banks is critical in getting the engine to fit. The carb and intake manifokds, 3 pcs, when assembled corectly span the cyl banks. If the manifold pipes do not exactly fall on the molded fittings for them, then the angles of the cyl banks need to be adjusted until they do match up. I left the banks unglued until I had fitted and glued the manifold. Only then did I use a drop or two of CA to hold the banks to the crankcase. That paid off as the fit was tight, but near perfect.
(http://i.imgur.com/Zescwqv.jpg) (https://imgur.com/Zescwqv)
Now I'm going to go fight with recalcitrant Gulfhawk decals while I decide what's next with the Spad.
sp
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(http://i.imgur.com/kTFtdMd.jpg)
Ooo now, that is looking really nice
Richard
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Really looks great in place SP! You are moving right along now!
RAGIII
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Excellent work on getting the cowl to fit , well done SP !
Terri
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I have several questions related to what is shown in the famous photo of Luke leaning against the lower wing of a Spad.
I don't want to step over the line on copyright rules, so I did not post the pic, but if you can help, send me a PM and I will send the pic direct. It is also on the inside of the cover of the Spad XIII Datafile.
First, I do not conclusively see an absence of any sort of screen over the opening in the side of the cowl. OTOH, if there is one, it is a fairly open mesh or what little I am seeing is just scratches on the negative or some such.
Second, the panel of the side cowl that surrounds the opening mentioned above looks like it is not painted in 5 color French camo. Is it bare metal or gray or the nebulous Ecru?
Third, what about the top cowl panel around the guns. Now that appears darker than the side. Any ideas on what color that might be?
Finally, there is controversy over the wheel covers. Were they "Yin Yang" black and white? or simply the color of the underside. What is shown in the photo is not enough to conclusively say one way or another. Any ideas?
Four pretty picky questions for sure, but now is the time to ask if there are any ideas or opinions rather than find out later that I definitely made the wrong choice. I pretty much have my own ideas about these questions, but I need to do my due diligence in asking around before committing paint to plastic.
Thanks
sp
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Pretty much finished converting the wing tips from Early to Late versions and hiding the evidence. I think this one took 3 rounds of sand, fill and prime. This isn't easy plastic to work. The filled in strut trenches have disappeared and I still have to decide if I will use the kit struts or scratch build replacements. I am leaning toward dressing up the kit pieces since the goal with this project is to bring out the best in an old kit.
sp
(http://i.imgur.com/H3Wd8jX.jpg) (https://imgur.com/H3Wd8jX)
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The wings are looking great SP! As for your questions:
1.If mesh was used it is as you said, very open! I have seen at least one photo that pretty clearly shows No Mesh on another SPAD. That being said, most common was with a mesh.
2.Conventional wisdom says Aluminum but the Paint based version of Ecru or grey seems possible to me.
3. I am pretty sure the top panels around the guns are standard Brown camo as seen on Bleriot built SPADS.
4. The yin yang is not visible on the photo supplied with Aviattics Legends series decals. Richard pretty much suggests that the yin yang is based on a photo of Hartneys SPAD in which a Mechanic drew it in saying it was there in Hartneys aircraft. IIRC there are photos that show the yin yang on other 27th aircraft. Richard also shows the right outer wheel cover in C flight blue like the cowling. I am not sure where that comes from. Perhaps from some of the references he mentions in the booklet. As for the left cover Richard shows it as Ecru. IHTH, although you have said you have your own opinions. One thing looking at the photo that I have a question about is the surround/frame to the opening. It looks decidedly darker than the upper fuselage around the guns yet most profiles show it as brown. Perhaps an optical illusion ::)
RAGIII
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Rick, Thanks, your answers are what I had in mind and I will go with that. I appreciate you taking the time to answer.
First time I built this kit it was the earlier release in the white box and the top wing was badly warped. I had to build a box and run hot air through it and slowly heat the thick styrene so it would relax flat in the correct shape.
This release isn't so bad by half, but there is still a couple degrees dihedrall that shouldn't be there and will play hob with mounting the top wing. The airfoil sort of hides it but there is a distinct bens in the center.
(http://i.imgur.com/eVU4XB9.jpg) (https://imgur.com/eVU4XB9)
I used my magnetic building board to make sort of a jig which is slightly higher in the center than the tips.
(http://i.imgur.com/3x6D1iK.jpg) (https://imgur.com/3x6D1iK)
And now the nuclear option, ye olde Monokote gun. A hair drier on streriods...with an attitude.
(http://i.imgur.com/YcHecaL.jpg) (https://imgur.com/YcHecaL)
I have been slowly heating the center and letting it cool. I will go a few more cycles and then check to see if it has lost it's dihedral.
sp
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I remember that WARP well SP. I think I broke the wing on My first try as a young Lad ::)
RAGIII
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Sp, looks like you mean business with that .44 Magnum of heat tools! Good luck. ;)
I am enjoying your build. I have he Aviattic Luke set, and want to do this aircraft in 1/32 from the HobbyCraft kit. Eventually.
Take care and carry on. Great work so far.
Best regards,
Bob
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Thanks Rick, you couldn't have been too young, that is one solid piece of plastic to break.
This old kit, molded in hard styrene, takes brute force modeling at times. The top wing is one of those times. After several heat and cool cycles, I have most of the bend straightened out. I will keep at it, seems it is the cooling while in the jig that does the good.
sp
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Wow you did a great job at building the interior of this SPAD. Very nice!
Andreas
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Love the the industrial strength solution to the unwanted dihedral, it must have surrendered pretty quickly. The wing tip conversion looks brilliant.
Richie
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Thanks Andreas, I appreciate the compliment.
"Industrial strength solution" I love it Richie. It took about a dozen heat/cool cycles to loose the dihedral. I think cooling under tension aided the process. Would have been quicker with a thinner wing, but likely wouldn't have worked at all with a two part, upper side/lower side wing like the D.VII of the series.
I mixed my paints for the 5 color camo. The dark green may be a bit dark, but the paint on the lid hadn't dried when I took the photo, so it may lighten up a bit. I have not put paint to plastic yet, so if you know a better shade for any of the colors, now is the time to holler at me and let me know what you think and why, I would definitely appreciate any and all feedback on this.
sp
(http://i.imgur.com/f85ZGf2.jpg) (https://imgur.com/f85ZGf2)
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Doh! I forgot to ask.
Are the color separation lines on French 5 color camo hard, soft or somewhere between? I cannot recall and need to know as I plan the masking process.
sp
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Doh! I forgot to ask.
Are the color separation lines on French 5 color camo hard, soft or somewhere between? I cannot recall and need to know as I plan the masking process.
sp
They are hard :)
Andreas
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Thanks Andreas, I have Parafilm that gives a good hard edge, ( as long as I'm very careful to press it down firmly along the edges)
Gee, now I'm running out of excuses not to start painting.
sp
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I started to paint the upper wing, I am using the diagram in the Datafile and a diagram that came with the CSM Luke decal sheet. The only difference I have found so far are Stbd top wing tip being Light Brown on the CSM diagram and Light Green in the Datafile. The DF shows an early Spad with rounded tips. The CSM sheet shows late production squared off tips, so I went with the Light Brown tip.
The paints I am using are all acrylic artist's colors mixed with Pledge to thin for airbrushing and to get some of Pledge's magical leveling properties. They are sprayed on a white primed surface. First the whole model, (top wing in this case), gets a coat of Light Brown, then the other colors get masked and sprayed over that.
I used Parafilm to mask and all was going well as I put a coat of Pledge to gloss it. Looked so good that I had to set the decals. I have a sheet of CSM Luke decals. I used this same sheet on the first Revell Spad I built and I do not recall any issues. The decals look great, but that ends when they get wet. First it took an inordinate amount of time for the decals to slide on the backing and they are incredibly fragile. Out of 2 roundels, a checkerboard strip and a large number 26. Only the 26 got applied without shattering to one degree or another. I had to apply multiple coats of Micro Sol, the last of which is still drying as I type. Hopefully that will get those decals to sucker down around the raised details on the wing surface.
The rest of the decals will get a coat of decal film in hopes they can be gotten onto the model unbroken. For anyone using these decals or the CSM Rickenbacker sheet, you need to soak them at least 5 min and they won't break on the backing if you are careful, spray some decal film and trim close and you just might not break them while positioning them on the model. You will need all your decal skills in play to successfully get them applied. Also it might be a good idea to mix up a little bit of matching touch up paint ahead of time. It is likely you will need a drop or two, especially around the aileron hinge line.
(http://i.imgur.com/65bQyU9.jpg) (https://imgur.com/65bQyU9)
It doesn't look too bad from 3', but close up you see a whole crop of preventable warts. Common sense and experience should have dictated stopping at the first broken roundel and breaking out the decal film for the rest. Don't get the Wife started on my lack of common sense.
sp
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There's a small bush growing out of the cockpit
That's the Bleriot scheme, the references I have (thanks Rick) have the wingtip brown
Richard
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There's a small bush growing out of the cockpit
That's the Bleriot scheme, the references I have (thanks Rick) have the wingtip brown
Richard
I sent a link on 5 color camo. I think it May have been Mike that sent the bleriot scheme. That being said I have just checked the Aviattic booklet and Richard doesn't show the bit of color on the right tip at all. I will need to check.
RAGIII
SP: In Spite of the decal issues your wing looks Terrific. From the photos I can't tell you had any trouble at all!
RAGIII
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It looks ok in the photos, can't see any issues there at all. In fact it looks better than ok, it looks great! Decal issues are so infuriating, I have vowed to mask and airbrush every possible marking from now on. Although most of my decal problems are self inflicted through sheer brutish technique.
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Thanks for all the kind words guys. I had painted samples of the colors I came up with on the first build of this kit on the diagrams in the datafile I recall doing a bit of research and question asking about colors at the time, though I no longer recall all the whys and wherefors, so I simply matched my paints to the painted samples. I will surrender without violence if accosted by the Color Police.
I have to say that Micro Sol worked it's magic overnight. The decals look much better although the touch up red doesn't quite match. There is still some black and white touch up to do on the checkerboard strip. Matching colors there shouldn't be an issue. :-) Next step is to spray some decal film on the remaining decals before I forget and really destroy a few.
sp
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Thanks for all the kind words guys. I had painted samples of the colors I came up with on the first build of this kit on the diagrams in the datafile I recall doing a bit of research and question asking about colors at the time, though I no longer recall all the whys and wherefors, so I simply matched my paints to the painted samples. I will surrender without violence if accosted by the Color Police.
I have to say that Micro Sol worked it's magic overnight. The decals look much better although the touch up red doesn't quite match. There is still some black and white touch up to do on the checkerboard strip. Matching colors there shouldn't be an issue. :-) Next step is to spray some decal film on the remaining decals before I forget and really destroy a few.
sp
As for color Police, First, who really cares, and second ask them to Prove you wrong with a photo of the upper wing 8)
RAGIII
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Agree with Rick, the color police are fun spoilers at best and you do seem to having a lot of fun with this build. I'm having fun following it for sure! :)
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Thanks for all the kind words guys. I had painted samples of the colors I came up with on the first build of this kit on the diagrams in the datafile I recall doing a bit of research and question asking about colors at the time, though I no longer recall all the whys and wherefors, so I simply matched my paints to the painted samples. I will surrender without violence if accosted by the Color Police.
I have to say that Micro Sol worked it's magic overnight. The decals look much better although the touch up red doesn't quite match. There is still some black and white touch up to do on the checkerboard strip. Matching colors there shouldn't be an issue. :-) Next step is to spray some decal film on the remaining decals before I forget and really destroy a few.
sp
As for color Police, First, who really cares, and second ask them to Prove you wrong with a photo of the upper wing 8)
RAGIII
Rick makes a good point , ask them to prove you wrong . It's your build , have fun with it which is coming along lovely so far :)
Terri
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I was being a smart alec about the color police, not serious.
I finally got the touch up done and everything sealed in a final coat of Pledge. I am now remembering why there are no other models in my display with 5 color camo. That's a bunch of masking to do and a near unlimited supply of opportunities to mess up and make even more work for myself. I feel the need to go build something varnished wood and CDL to soothe the shock to my system French 5 color camo brings on.
sp
(http://i.imgur.com/R8uKe6o.jpg) (https://imgur.com/R8uKe6o)
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The wing has turned out well SP! I am looking forward to all of the Tedious Masking and painting...both on yours and on Mine 8)
RAGIII
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As can be seen from the shadows, the dihedral warp has in part returned. I am afraid to heat it now that it is painted and decalled. I will put it back under tension again and leave it a while. It will be some days before the top wing will go on.
I am looking at a shelf full of old kits as, other than a handful of WnW kits and a couple of Rodens, my whole stash is old. Now there seem to be two types. There are limited run kits that were never meant for anyone other than a builder and there are those meant to be "assembled" as state of the art plastic kits. I don't have issues with limited run as they are what they are and turning out a nice model from one is it's own reward. However old kits that were meant to be state of the art at the time of their first release are getting on my nerves because they are definitely no longer state of the art. Hard plastic, ejector pin marks and not quite fit engineering are fast overshadowing the nostalgia value of building a kit from back in the day. I have a few more oldie but goodies on the shelf and after this Spad, they are likely to sit there a while longer..
sp
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As can be seen from the shadows, the dihedral warp has in part returned. I am afraid to heat it now that it is painted and decalled. I will put it back under tension again and leave it a while. It will be some days before the top wing will go on.
I am looking at a shelf full of old kits as, other than a handful of WnW kits and a couple of Rodens, my whole stash is old. Now there seem to be two types. There are limited run kits that were never meant for anyone other than a builder and there are those meant to be "assembled" as state of the art plastic kits. I don't have issues with limited run as they are what they are and turning out a nice model from one is it's own reward. However old kits that were meant to be state of the art at the time of their first release are getting on my nerves because they are definitely no longer state of the art. Hard plastic, ejector pin marks and not quite fit engineering are fast overshadowing the nostalgia value of building a kit from back in the day. I have a few more oldie but goodies on the shelf and after this Spad, they are likely to sit there a while longer..
sp
It is a shame the warp has returned. Is it back in full or partial? Hopfully you will get it back to a point where superglue and rigging will work to keep it on the struts and straight! As for those Old "State of the Art" kits working on the three SPADS has Me realizing how Much WNW helped make Me an Assembler :(
RAGIII
RAGIII
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Rick
I had the top wing under tension for a few hours and it straightened out, but then the dihedral partially returned. It has been back under tension overnight and we'll see how it does. It will be ok as long as I can get it mounted before any bend returns.
I hear what you say about becoming an "assembler". I guess WnWAS, (Wingnuts Wings Assembler Syndrome), is affecting many in the WWI modeling community world wide. There are home remedies available. First and foremost is a re-read of The Gospel According to St. Harry, AKA Scale modeling in Plastic Card, followed by a fresh assortment of fine grit sanding materials, a new pack of #11 blades and a re-stock of Evergreen card, rod and strips. Of course once governments realize the severity of WnWAS, we can look forward to assistance checks in the mail so we can afford Ebay prices for WnW kits. Until then, we will have to build and put up with putty on our fingers and styrene and resin dust in the air, (no longer a valid excuse since we now all have face masks ;-)
sp
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Having been a long time sufferer of HASAS (hurricane and spitfire assemble syndrome) and then caught the above mentioned WNWAS I shall be seeking out the Gospel according to St. Harry.
I had a splendid time playing with plastic card, putty and wood veneer today. I was a big, smiley, messy boy all afternoon. Such fun! I may even seek out an old Airfix Sunderland for a bit of nostalgia. Am hoping to avoid succumbing to the dreaded TMAS (Tamiya model assemble syndrome) through this drastic course of action. :)
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Richie
I thought I had it on my HD, but it did not save right. I did a search and found a copy to download as a PDF file. It requires you to start a free 30 day membership that can be cancelled at any time. I was able to download a full file of 50 Mb. I did a search for Scale model aircraft in plastic card and found it, the site is SCRIBD. I haven't tried to unsubscribe, but their site assures me I can at any time before monthly payments start in 30 days. We'll see. I'm glad to have a readable copy to hand again.
sp
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Thanks SP, I've used Scribd before on a 30 day free trial. I cancelled after 30 days once I had download what I wanted.
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It is definitely worth a read if you have not read it before.
sp
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Managed to order a second hand copy online, looking forward to it immensely!
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You will thoroughly enjoy it. St. Harry has loads of tricks and techniques to share, but most important is his ability to share his positive attitude.
sp
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Sounds perfect! I had a delivery of Evergreen sheets and strips arrive recently.
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I shall be seeking out the Gospel according to St. Harry.
I may have a digital copy, let me get back to you
I know I did a cut and paste of his wing instructions with the pictures put into the text, and the whole lot spaced out to make it easier to read
Richard
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Nice work!
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OK, I do have a copy - it is 25Mb making it difficult to email
Richard
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No worries, I have a second hand copy arriving from Amazon in the next day or 2. Can't wait to get my 3 current builds done so I can have a bash at scratch building a whole model. It may well end in tears though! :)
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I have put it on my website:
http://www.primrose-engineering.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/ScaleModelAircraft_Woodman.pdf (http://www.primrose-engineering.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/ScaleModelAircraft_Woodman.pdf)
Richard
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Thanks for that Richard. I have read through it a couple of times in the past but never downloaded or saved. I appreciate your effort!
RAGIII
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Thanks Richard, only had time for a quick scan through tonight, looks excellent!. Very kind of you to post it.
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Took a break from masking camo and decided to fool with the cowl ring and radiator for a bit.
I have some brass mesh and having just re-read Harry Woodman's book, I decided to use some and see if I couldn't make a replacement for the radiator in the front of the cowl ring. I made a backing out of 20 thou card to match the kit piece, then cut the mesh to fit and finally cut strips of 20 thou card to make the shutters.
As usual, execution falls short of conception, especially in my eyes. I have not drilled any holes in the cowl ring for the shutter adjust rods and other odd holes since the radiator piece is not yet glued in it's final position. It still needs to be dry fitted and likely adjusted to fit on the nose. That gets complicated by the need for the top cowl piece to be removable, yet fit as perfectly as possible when in place. Additionally the Metalizer paint I used on the mesh didn't cover well and it looks a bit "brassy" at some angles. As usual, the enlarged photo shows the need for touchup that my unaided old eyes simply did not pick up. Best part of this exercise is that the original kit piece, which isn't so bad, is undamaged and can still be used if fit issues should require it.
sp
(http://i.imgur.com/z87fu2c.jpg) (https://imgur.com/z87fu2c)
(http://i.imgur.com/HzDhAP9.jpg) (https://imgur.com/HzDhAP9)
sp
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Looking great SP! You guys are almost making Me feel guilty about using the kit parts on My cowl/radiator shutters 8)
RAGIII
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I think it looks great!
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Love it SP! I think the mesh looks so much better than the kit part.
Have often had problems with paint not fully covering brass parts too. Was wondering if a fine spray of Mr Surfacer might help, was going to try it next time I use photo etch so don't know if it works.
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Richie
I should know better than painting direct on brass. I could have cleaned it, I could have sanded and buffed it, I could have done done all 3 and primed it; but no, I had to slap the metalizer burnt iron on it and was too pig headed to soak the mesh in lacquer thinner to clean the part and then properly prep the brass for paint.
I have decided, in spite the photo, to use the rest of the mesh over the holes in the side of the cowl. Mesh is hard to see on photos at some angles. Which brings up another related issue. The engine bearers on the Revell 1:28 Spad look similar to the real ones in general shape, but they are different enough that the X on the bearer seen in the Luke photo can not be seen at the same angle. So I decided to go ahead and cover the holes with mesh. Holding it up to the hole, it is surprising how little it obstructs seeing what is inside. The X is plainly visible through the mesh, just not when viewed from the same angle as the famous photo.
This time I will do my penance and properly prepare the brass mesh to receive paint.
sp
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Cowl ring and radiator front.
(http://i.imgur.com/jiItPFm.jpg) (https://imgur.com/jiItPFm)
Strut selection. Kit piece pinned, Paper, wire and white glue, Manila paper, wire and white glue. Split, carved and pinned bamboo.
(http://i.imgur.com/FfaqRqQ.jpg) (https://imgur.com/FfaqRqQ)
I like the bamboo, but those H struts, which are more flying wire supports than struts, are going to be trouble carving out of bamboo. I may have to try refining and pinning the kit pieces. We shall see.
sp
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Here is the kit piece refined and pinned. The rigging thread holes in the horizontal bars were plugged with 30 thou rod and a drop of liquid cement. The strut was scraped and sanded to get rid of ejector pin marks and general chunkiness. I'm thinking the old 1950s mold makers must have been paid by the injector pin because there are a whole bunch of them and not much thought given to hiding them. I'm happy with the refined kit piece and I believe I will go with bamboo mainplanes and the refined kit pieces for the Hs. The missing little nubs where the crossbar joins the strut will be replaced with stretched sprue before painting.
sp
(http://i.imgur.com/12RO1GS.jpg) (https://imgur.com/12RO1GS)
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In terms of bangs for your buck, finding a way to thin down the horizontal bit of the H would be well worth while
I'm not sure why SPAD dropped the simple bar they used in the A and went for the more shapely ones in the later planes
Richard
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That is an interesting strut shape. Any idea what 30 thou rod is in millimenters?
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That is an interesting strut shape. Any idea what 30 thou rod is in millimenters?
0.75mm
It's an easy conversion - 0.040" is roughly 1mm.
0.030" rod is also 1" full size - I find working out what it would be full size handy when I'm scratchbuilding
Richard
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Your Struts all look usable but I do like the Bamboo the best! Your cowling looks Terrific SP!! I was hoping you would pave the way showing me how to make that "H" strut. I may end up with Alternate Plan "B" on Mine :o
RAGIII
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I may end up with Alternate Plan "B" on Mine :o
RAGIII
(https://www.aviafrance.com/image.php?im=7574)
https://www.aviafrance.com/spad-s-xxii-aviation-france-7574.htm (https://www.aviafrance.com/spad-s-xxii-aviation-france-7574.htm)
Richard
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I may end up with Alternate Plan "B" on Mine :o
RAGIII
https://www.aviafrance.com/spad-s-xxii-aviation-france-7574.htm (https://www.aviafrance.com/spad-s-xxii-aviation-france-7574.htm)
Richard
;D That would be more like Alternate Plan "XXX"
RAGIII
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Great to have tried several options, I also like the bamboo struts most but they all look good.
My copy of Scale Model Aircraft in Plastic Card arrived today, just settling down with a cup of tea to have a read. Thanks for the recommendation, it looks just the ticket. :)
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Glad you got the book Richie. You're going to be scratch building something soon.
Rick, the lack of a viable plan B for the H struts is one of the the things that looked so good to me about the refined kit piece.
Using the paper folded over wire and white glue method it would be easy to make the vertical members, however I do not see any way to attach the cross member other than a CA butt joint. You would have to get precisely in the center otherwise the rigging X it supports won't match up, not to mention getting the exact length right...6 times in your case. Carving would be even more fiddly, though you might be able to pin the cross member with just a tiny bit of pin exposed it locate in a dent made by a scribing tool on the vertical pieces. You can just clean up the kit pieces with a lot less trouble and still preserve the inherent measurements of the piece.
sp
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Looks good on the picture, though! With some decals it helps to have warm (or sometimes hot, like with some Japanese decals such as Hasegawa) water, because it seems decals react with warmth and become softer, and less prone to cracking and tearing.
If they have thick glue films (Hasegawa comes to mind) it also helps to dissolve that and make them look less thick on the model. I even made some Roden decals work somewhat better just by using hot water.
On the other hand, I've never worked with (older?) CSM decals so it could be that only the extra decal film might save them... I'm keeping my fingers crossed the rest will go on OK!
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Thanks Jeoren
I can use all the luck I can get. The warm water sounds like a good idea and I will give it a try. I expect it will work whether or not I use film, so I will use a light coat of decal film and a large dose of careful just to be safe.
sp
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Nice job on the rad and cowl ring SP :)
Terri
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Thank you Terri.
I looked at a lot of Spad pics to get an idea of what the linen bindings on the struts looked like and finally decided the vast majority were varnished wood with linen bindings doped or varnished over. They ended up sort of semi see through and did not offer up a whole lot of visual contrast. I did some testing and was unable to get the effect I wanted with decal material or paint. Then the light bulb went off and I cut some small strips of tracing paper and soaked them in Future , then stuck them down. Once dry they got sprayed with orange tinted Future.
sp
(http://i.imgur.com/vSt19fK.jpg) (https://imgur.com/vSt19fK)
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The bindings have turned out beautifully SP!
RAGIII
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Thank you Rick.
I must note that after doing the 4 mainplane struts, the key to getting the tracing paper stuck down and semi see thru is to have 1 or 2 coats of Future/Pledge on the painted strut. The soaked strip of tracing paper softens the dry coat of Future and you press the strip on and it holds the saturated paper strip down. Acts like it doesn't want to go and then all of a sudden it sticks. Kinda cool.
sp
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The struts are finished. The aileron control rod and horn may be the wrong color. I was going with blue shows up light on Ortho film. More looking and checking is in order.
sp
(http://i.imgur.com/BORQn1D.jpg) (https://imgur.com/BORQn1D)
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I have a book on the SPAD VII that describes all of the wooden parts as being 'marouflaged'. By that they mean entirely wrapped in fabric and then doped
Richard
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Richard
That may well be. A single layer of linen doped or varnished might be nearly invisible. I epoxy light fiberglass cloth onto balsa sheets for something light and strong in RC planes and you have to really look hard to see the cloth. I hadn't heard of it, but if they gave it a name, there is likely something to it.
sp
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https://www.diatex.com/activities-services/light-aircraft-division/simplified-method-of-covering-marouflage/ (https://www.diatex.com/activities-services/light-aircraft-division/simplified-method-of-covering-marouflage/)
Assuming that is the case, I'm planning to paint the struts and tailskid as there wouldn't be any wood visible. I think that matches pictures of the preserved aeroplanes too
Richard
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The struts look great to Me! I was looking through My SPAD VII bible and did find one that looked as though the struts "Might" have been painted. Oddly enough I think it was Guynemers S254 or the Baracca SPAD in Italy. Already forgot :o
RAGIII
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The struts look great to Me! I was looking through My SPAD VII bible and did find one that looked as though the struts "Might" have been painted. Oddly enough I think it was Guynemers S254 or the Baracca SPAD in Italy. Already forgot :o
RAGIII
That's fighting talk - right, I'm going to go and research a million pictures to prove you wrong!!
Oh....
Yes, you're right
This is Guynemers SPAD VII:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/42/Georges_Guynemer%27s_SPAD_VII%2C_Musee_de_l%27Air_et_de_l%27Espace%2C_Le_Bourget%2C_Paris._%288122848723%29.jpg)
The wing struts are indeed varnished wood
The cabane stuts are marouflaged and painted
I had half remembered
Richard
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The struts look great to Me! I was looking through My SPAD VII bible and did find one that looked as though the struts "Might" have been painted. Oddly enough I think it was Guynemers S254 or the Baracca SPAD in Italy. Already forgot :o
RAGIII
That's fighting talk - right, I'm going to go and research a million pictures to prove you wrong!!
Oh....
Yes, you're right
The wing struts are indeed varnished wood
The cabane stuts are marouflaged and painted
I had half remembered
Richard
Richard, I am only partially right also on that one ;D I think you have the same SPAD VII Bible that I do. Check the Photos of that Italian Aces Aircraft I mentioned. Perhaps this subject would make a good thread in the Information section?
RAGIII
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Richard, I am only partially right also on that one ;D I think you have the same SPAD VII Bible that I do. Check the Photos of that Italian Aces Aircraft I mentioned. Perhaps this subject would make a good thread in the Information section?
RAGIII
"Marouflage - they can't touch you for it!'
Richard
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Marouflage...Sounds like some dreadful skin condition that is a side effect of Covid19.
sp
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I have gotten frustrated with this kit and have decided to put it aside for a while. I found an old directory containing photos of my first 1:28 Revell Spad build. I will have to go through them carefully and determine if the current effort is worth continuing.
I sure have appreciated all the support and encouragement I have received, but I need to let this kit set until I can look at it objectively and do what needs to be done to finish the model.
sp
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Better to put it to one side than to continue, not enjoy it and as a result not do your best work. Sorry to see it stalled but look forward to seeing you finish it when you are ready. I have 5 kits on the shelf at the moment.
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Better to put it to one side than to continue, not enjoy it and as a result not do your best work. Sorry to see it stalled but look forward to seeing you finish it when you are ready. I have 5 kits on the shelf at the moment.
I agree with Richard but will add I am sorry to hear it has become a "Frustrating" build! I hope to see you back on it someday sooner than later!
RAGIII
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I have gotten frustrated with this kit and have decided to put it aside for a while. I found an old directory containing photos of my first 1:28 Revell Spad build. I will have to go through them carefully and determine if the current effort is worth continuing.
I sure have appreciated all the support and encouragement I have received, but I need to let this kit set until I can look at it objectively and do what needs to be done to finish the model.
sp
Quite understandable, this is a hobby and it is supposed to be enjoyable (apparently)
I would say I'm disappointed as I could see the three SPAD builds (Yours, Ricks and mine) crossing the line at about the same time, and I have been enjoying our journey together. And my disappointment isn't a reason for you to slog on with a build you are not enjoying
Richard
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It happens all the time to me... The interesting thing is what a different view you can get by letting a model mature for a bit.
/Fredrik