Author Topic: Morane Sauliner A-1... what is this?  (Read 3882 times)

Offline uncletony

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Re: Morane Sauliner A-1... what is this?
« Reply #15 on: August 05, 2012, 06:35:47 AM »
It's an interesting thread. There is a reference to the Rhinebeck machine being substantially altered, but without elaboration (at least that I caught from skimming it)

I don't know if this is true or not, but I have always gotten the sense that the Rhinebeck planes all went thru the Cole Palen filter  such that they are all a little distorted/catywampus visually speaking... Don't get me wrong, I admired what he did there tremendously... Just saying.

Offline JoeDxMB

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Re: Morane Sauliner A-1... what is this?
« Reply #16 on: August 05, 2012, 10:46:37 AM »
As far as I know, the only way the Rhinebeck A-1 was altered was   cosmeticly  and was only in it's  squadron  markings including   its silver/red color. However, the rudder stripes  are in the wrong color  order.
I still do  not understand that as shurely  Cole must have been aware of the correct order..

As  far a Cole altering  aircraft, it must be undersood the some of the the original aircraft were basket cases when he got them and Cole simply made do with what was available to him keeping  it historicly accurate as much as possible.

Cole  was just as interested in making an aircraft airworthy as he was with historic accuracy and I imagine some minor inacuracies were traded off  to have an airworthy aircraft .
An example is the Albie DV.a copy which originally  had a Mercedes  enginge.
The engine's crankshaft broke early on  and to keep it flying, a  more modern  Ranger engine was installed   

I remember seeing Cole a few times  and he was quite a "larger than life" showman with a great sense of humor who enjoyed putting on a show as much as he loved flying (and building) those vintage aircraft.
Yeah,  some of the  aircraft markings  might be a bit "cattywampus", even a bit over the top but, I imaging this was the showman in Cole responsiible for it. After all, if he could not draw crowds to his shows, he had no financing for his aircraft, etc .  Most in the crowds just came to see a show and had no real concept of historical accuracy.  I get the distinct impression  that all this is not lost on the present management.

BTW........ weather permitting, I plan on taking a drive up the Hudson  to Rhinebeck on the second weekend in  september.  My camera will get a real  workout then.  :)
« Last Edit: August 08, 2012, 12:45:46 AM by JoeDxMB »

Offline JoeDxMB

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Re: Morane Sauliner A-1... what is this?
« Reply #17 on: August 11, 2012, 11:19:44 PM »
BTW, does anyone know of a pic of the bullet deflector plates on the prop that the A-1 used?
I believe that they were some sort of triangular shaped deflectors that protruded from the back side of the prop as oposed to just a flat metal plate.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2012, 11:21:15 PM by JoeDxMB »

Offline GAJouette

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Re: Morane Sauliner A-1... what is this?
« Reply #18 on: August 11, 2012, 11:50:02 PM »
  Joe,
Let me look through my references today for the deflector plate. I'm fairly certain I have a drawing for you my friend.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
" What Me Worry"

Offline JoeDxMB

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Re: Morane Sauliner A-1... what is this?
« Reply #19 on: August 11, 2012, 11:58:00 PM »
Thanks.  :)

As luck would have it, I just found one .
I believe that the same deflector type was use on other early MS aircraft as well .  The trangular shape deflected the bullet to either side of the prop and I imagine that  it was bit more effective than just a flat plate.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2012, 12:01:41 AM by JoeDxMB »

Offline uncletony

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Re: Morane Sauliner A-1... what is this?
« Reply #20 on: August 12, 2012, 01:51:40 AM »
Wait, what? The A-I was a late war fighter with synchronized Vickers -- why would it have deflector plates?

Offline JoeDxMB

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Re: Morane Sauliner A-1... what is this?
« Reply #21 on: August 12, 2012, 02:02:56 AM »
Wait, what? The A-I was a late war fighter with synchronized Vickers -- why would it have deflector plates?

If that is the case, I got some wrong info along the way.   :)

Offline GAJouette

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Re: Morane Sauliner A-1... what is this?
« Reply #22 on: August 12, 2012, 02:08:53 AM »
   Tony,
After looking through my information I've got to agree with Tony. I believe the Morane A-1 and the Morane N have become confused here. As Tony had stated the A-1 was armed with twin Vicker which were synchronized.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
" What Me Worry"

Offline JoeDxMB

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Re: Morane Sauliner A-1... what is this?
« Reply #23 on: August 12, 2012, 02:16:31 AM »
OK.....  thanks guys.
FWIW........ I just looked at my yet unbuilt Special Hobby MS-N and  the defectors are well modeled for it .

It  goes to to show that one is never too old to learn something. :)
« Last Edit: August 12, 2012, 02:48:17 AM by JoeDxMB »

Offline Rob Hart

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Re: Morane Sauliner A-1... what is this?
« Reply #24 on: August 13, 2012, 05:08:41 AM »
I am also currently building the SH MS A-1. As molded, the forward fuselage of the kit appears to have a mix of MS 27,28,29,& 30 features with maybe even some replica aircraft one off mods thrown in. The Monosoupape Gnome 9N would not have the breather pipe arrangement that is seen on other rotary engined aircraft as the engine used a single valve for both intake and exhaust and did not have a carburetor (check photos of Nieuport 28s which used the same engine). The type 30 used Le Rhone engines and I believe that is what the aircraft in the photos with breather pipes are. However, I am at a loss to explain the breather pipes on the Cole Palen aircraft as it appears to have the Monosoupape engine. To build the MS A1 29s featured on the kit decal sheets (one of the sets of markings is for a type 27), you will need to remove the raised details molded on the forward fuselage of the kit and add the comma shaped photo etched pieces that represent the outlines of access panels (shown opened in one of the previously posted photos), or, and probably easier, scribe the outlines of the access panels. As previously stated, the aircraft is difficult to research, with many contradictions and variations evident in photos. The best single source reference is the Mini Datafile and, as always, if you can find good photos of the specific aircraft that you plan to model, your task will be easier. I am also open to suggestions as to how to cut the cooling slot in the 11:00 o'clock position.

http://www.enginehistory.org/Gnome%20Monosoupape.pdf
« Last Edit: August 13, 2012, 05:19:49 AM by Rob Hart »

Offline JoeDxMB

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Re: Morane Sauliner A-1... what is this?
« Reply #25 on: August 13, 2012, 06:39:50 AM »
Yes, I also realized after searching the net for  info that  the the kit is basicllly a conglomeration  of varous versions ..... a generic vers if you will .

In any event, I'm basically  building a representation of the ORA vers which admittedly may not be  historically accurate to begin with  in a few respects . Cole Palen aquired it when it was in fairly rough shape and as always, he tried  to make do with what was available  to him.

Anyway, I have fond memories of seeing  it fly back in  the '80s and I  just want to build a good looking aircraft even if it's not  it is not 100% accurate .
So far I'm 100% satisfied with it.  I always  though that if there was  such a thing a a "pretty" WWI aircraft, it would have to be the A-1.  :)

BTW, my next step is to start mounting the wing and that may be the most difficult part.
 


« Last Edit: August 20, 2012, 12:07:46 AM by JoeDxMB »

Offline Rob Hart

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Re: Morane Sauliner A-1... what is this?
« Reply #26 on: August 13, 2012, 07:15:29 AM »
I'll be interested in reading your account of how mounting the wing progresses. It looks to be a daunting task and I am not impressed with the engineering of the kit.

Offline JoeDxMB

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Re: Morane Sauliner A-1... what is this?
« Reply #27 on: August 13, 2012, 08:48:50 AM »
I have a  plan as to how to mount/align the wing and I suspect that it may not be as difficult as feared after all once initial alignment is achieved.
 
BTW, I am building a two gun version as the kit only modlels  the fuselage upper cheek cowls for that as I understand it .
The kit may not be WNW/ Tamiya quality but I've bult much worse in the past. :)
« Last Edit: August 13, 2012, 09:12:54 AM by JoeDxMB »