1/32 WWI Aircraft Kits OTHER THAN WnW that are really good

[Michael Scarborough]

OK, again, thanks for all the feedback. I hope anyone interested will take advantage of it.

George, re: the Triplane.....we got the lower wing parts made...and then my dad just needed to get back in the air so he bought a Fairchild 24 that we restored and then flew the (wheel) pants off of. I still have one of the ribs from the Triplane. I have to say that we were "building an airplane in our basement" and that we had two Warner engines sitting in our garage took a lot of explaining at school.

Wish I'd paid more attention to the build, the restoration and, mostly, really learned to fly the F-24. Unfortunately it all came just about the time I discovered g-i-r-l-s and my attention was diverted.

I'll see if I can dig up photos of the processes.....he also led the team on the restoration of the Grumman Wildcat at the Smithsonian.

Thanks for asking,
Cheers

[ALBATROS1234]

yes there are many good kits in 1/32 and 1/48 besides wnw even 1/72. you should know that michael.you have been around the block for a while now. wnw are a bit better engineered for overall fit quality and details. but there is certainly many nice very buildable ww1 aircraft kits. me personally even though i have quite a collection of wnw kits i have never completed one. i dont know how to put my finger on it but i lose interest. maybe because they are so well engineered that they are too easy to build. the other side of the coin is dumping all these am upgrades and then i feel bogged down in too much over detailling(these are only my opinions) i much rather build 1/48 which in my opinion has the right level of detail to suit my needs and interest and also are more fun to build to me because i have to do research which allows me to learn and i find the sleuthing aspect particularly appealing. to me (and i know you guys will throw rocks at me if you catch me on the street) wnw arent that fun to work on. like i said ,i dont know exactly why but its just how i like to do things.honestly, it kinda bugs me that there are guys that think that only wnw kits are worth being built. that seems shallow to me. but i feel everyone has their own right to do what makes them happy in the hobby mind you but it limits you to only subjects that wnw feel are worth kitting and leave the modeller on the edge of his seat wishing,hoping that wnw kit an aircraft that you like so you can model it. i dont understand this logic, if i was particularly interested in an aircraft i would even build a 1/72 short run kit, which i acutally have done and recently. 1/72 is the best for subject matter.many of these are older or lacking in details or such. course you have to do some good old fashioned modelling to  make one look like anything,but thats the fun right?

[Thumbs up]

Just bought some shiny flat stones and a packet of gravel,"Who threw that"

[Thumbs up]

Just bought some shiny flat stones and a packet of gravel,"Who threw that"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYkbqzWVHZI

[uncletony]

..... (and i know you guys will throw rocks at me if you catch me on the street)...

Nah, but I might throw a handful of shift keys at you.

[ALBATROS1234]

LOL

[Pgtaylorart]

..... (and i know you guys will throw rocks at me if you catch me on the street)...

Nah, but I might throw a handful of shift keys at you.

he must be influenced by the poems of e. e. cummings. 

[ALBATROS1234]

i have to respond again cuz i just read michael comment on the wnw thread.i remember you from 10 years ago, i even bought a few models from you that you sold back then. i dont mean to criticize u or anyone. i only voice my opinions. to me modelling in all its ins and outs is fun. i enjoy it. i know theres different levels of devotion,talent,spare time available,funds available etc.etc.etc. this should be enjoyable. if you get enjoyment from kits that are well designed with little modification needed to make a decent looking model than that is your right by all means. i just sometimes get confused by things that seem crazy to me, like when you have a kit like the roden dr.1 which is quite nice, yes there is a tad more modelling involved to make it an excellent looking model than if you build a wnw kit but to me that is more value for my buck because i get to fiddle with it longer. i personally think a wnw dr.1 is unneccesary especially at this point when there are so many other aircraft that have no kit whatsoever. an imho when i look at period photos i think that rodens fabric covered wing effect is more accurate than wnw with its overdone stitching and no undersurface pillowing or such. if you study closely period photos wnw wings especially are unrealistic. this of course is my opinion but if you look closely at the data you will most likely agree. wnw kits are very well researched on other aspects like engine and interior detail,but much of that is redone by many with taurus or other am items.it bugs me that there are guys that only want to build wnw cuz thats not good for the hobby which isnt good for me, if other companies dont make money they dont produce kits.anyway i hope i didnt offend you or speak rashly i sometimes type and hit enter before i thouroughly consider the possible impact my opinions may have on others. i would hope that opinions get countered with other opinions but its not always easy to tell the level of sarcasm,anger joking,poking good clean fun,or harrassing can be read into typed words on the screen as diff people read them.anyhoo i say whatever you enjoy do. it does seems like youve been in sell mode more than buy mode lately but, if you have any questions specifically about a certain kit by all means ask. you will get plenty responses here.

[Des]

I can see exactly where you are coming from Scott and I don't think your comments have offended anyone.

Michael has made a list of his requirements for a 1:32 scale WW1 aircraft kit, they are as follows;

they are accurate enough in outline and shape not to need cosmetic surgery.

- All the parts fit well. Fuselage halves join without major amounts of putty; fuselage halves fit over cockpit and engine subassemblies without scraping down parts.
 
- There are not "panel lines" a scale 1" wide that need filling. There is not a facsimile of "fabric texture" a scale 1" deep that needs sanding off. Upper wings are properly aligned over lower wings and all the struts are in the right place.

- No pegs of any sort need to be added to the end of struts.

- The cockpit and engine are well enough detailed that they can be assembled, as is, and the use of aftermarket parts is not mandatory. (EX. Lots of people choose Taurus engines over the WnW offerings. But, as many builds here have shown, the WnW engines assembled straight out of the box will build into really fine representations of the real thing.)

These are all very fair and are the dreams and wishes of most modelers, but in reality here is no such thing as a perfect kit, and Wingnuts fall into this as well, their kits are not perfect. As I said earlier, I have made a lot of 1:32 scale WW1 kits from all manufacturers and found them all to have faults but all are buildable, even my Battle Axe Fokker E.III ended up being a very nice model.

I also build a lot of scratch models and to me this is the ultimate form of modeling,  I get enormous amounts of pleasure from building a model starting with nothing but a few rough drawings and some old photos. On the other hand I have built over 35 1:32 scale WW1 aircraft kits from various manufacturers, I also thoroughly enjoyed building the kits, some were 'shake n bake' kits while others required some effort to get the results I wanted.

If you want the 'perfect' 1:32 scale WW1 aircraft kit I'm afraid that you will be waiting for quite some time, Wingnut kits are close but still have not reached the top rung of the ladder, yet.

Every modeler is different and each approach their kits in different ways, some like to see things just fall together without any effort while others don't mind going those few extra steps by adding superb details, the choice is entirely up to the modeler but as Scott has said, we make models for the enjoyment factor, having fun while producing a stunning model, as I have said in the past, once modeling ceases to be fun will be the day I give the hobby away.

Des.

[ALBATROS1234]

i agree des, if those are the requirements i am afraid that only wnw kits would fall into this category(barely). as you say they arent perfect either. i like you are more interested in the aircraft and build not which kit is most attractive but which aircraft . even if that requires extra effort,i deviate more than many as i even deviate within the different scales and have built models that were new releases as well as ancient lumps of plastic. which i personally think is the fun in it.then again i spend twice as much time reading and researching rather than building,again to me very fun.guess i am old school.

[RAGIII]

Scott and Des,
I can certainly see your points ! On the other hand, I have become more of an assembler due to time available for my hobby. I think that most if not all WNW kits meet Michaels "basic" criteria, although one could say that some of the wings have exaggerated rib tapes as Scott pointed out. The Roden kits that I think line up with most of his requirements are again:
1. Nieuport 28, ( The seat being the only "Necessary" aftermarket)I did use some Part PE but it wasn't an absolute necessity.
http://forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com/index.php?topic=2806.0
2. Fokker DR1 ( Especially the Encore version)
3. Pfalz DIII (Although one needs to sand away the water? Tank on the left upper wing)

As for pinning wing struts, perhaps I am lucky but have not pinned any struts on any of my builds be they Roden, WNW, Eduard, or DML for that matter 
RAGIII

[lcarroll]

......"two cents worth" from a 60+ year modeller (is he still moving, you could say?! )
    Scott has hit the proverbial nail squarely on the head with the use of the "fun" word. My enjoyment of any kit will quickly dwindle when fun goes out of the equation. It's very difficult for me to not enjoy a Wingnut Wings Kit; they come as close to the ideal (for me) as it gets which has been mentioned and, like all Kits, can be improved upon with After Market additions, some extra scratch built features, or just a little more attention to the details. The others may require more effort but, as Des points out, offer the same degree of ultimate satisfaction, perhaps more, once completed. My best example is the Roden Nieuport 28, a very basic Kit which, given an after Market "Peach Box" seat, gun, and cowling, and a lot of extra care and attention finished as one of my favourite Builds; it and all the others I've seen are unique in that they incorporate the finishing touches of all the different Builders. I've stated elsewhere that, for me, half or more of the fun is in the research and learning before and during the Build. I'm glad I'm not alone in this. There's a great deal to be said for a "seamless" WNW Build, but no less for turning out a similar quality model from a lesser quality Kit. A healthy mix is, for my tastes, optimum. I believe a quick look through the Models displayed here will quickly prove that most of our Members do equally well with both types, and certainly appear to be enjoying their Hobby!
   That elusive WNW Camel would be preferred to the Hobbycraft versions so many of us have stashed away, however I won't hesitate to get cracking on them should Wingnut's promise fall through the cracks of commercial realities. The difference will be in the time and extra expense, the fun (again for me) will be no less!
    It's all about "to each his own", being squarely in the middle makes me comfortable in this. I'm not a Scratch Builder however neither am I an OOB Guy. I'd bet though that I enjoy the Hobby just as much as either type. You're not "old school", Scott, you're just happy and secure in your work!
Cheers,
Lance

[Michael Scarborough]

Well, I am happy as it appears I have initiated a really good, thorough and civil discussion.

Can I assume safely that Albatross1234's alias is Scott? NO offence taken at all, brother....thanks for weighing in...this exercise has been to:
1. Get a discussion going and
2. Find out which of the non-WnW kits fit the criteria listed....and I am really pleased that the one kit that keeps coming to the surface is a Nieuport 28....as stated, it has always been one of my favorite aircraft.

As far as selling more than building recently, I am sorry to say you are right. I actually try to soften the blow of sending kits out the door by telling myself I am really just pawning then in order to raise cash fro to art projects I have going on, one of which is my Japanese garden. It has been the time of year (North of the Equator, that is) for planting and I need to get some specific trees which can are only available now. So, I sold some kits and lots of books, bought the plants, and have already started replacing the kits, the Hannover being the first. Yes, I take a loss, but I now have the plants and am getting kits back in here that I know I will build. I have also learned a lot from you guys in the months I've been on this forum and am now focusing on kits that I know there is a lot of research available for.

My goal is to really develop my skills as a model builder and working on the WnW kits is a great way to do that. You might say there is no challenge so how am I developing skills? Well, I think managing to assemble a stock WnW Mercedes D.III as well as I possibly can. is a start. Then do another one adding the basic wiring. Then do another one using some of the Taurus bits. Then do a masterpiece using BO's bits and the Taurus bits. I see it as a growth process. And I have actually spent a lot of time working on the finishes on both the Pups I've done. That is my real area of enjoyment.

I didn't mean to give the impression that I have no intention of building anything other than WnW kits. Not at all. When I get a bit more comfortable, I have all the Hasegawa Golden Age fighters I intend to build, warts and all....including converting the BF2c into an F11C Goshawk or an F4B4 inot an XF6B. Likewise with the racers kits from Williams Bros. I plan to build them all correcting, cleaning up and detailing in the process. And, convert some of them into the imaginary racers my dad drew when he was a kid. I also plan to build a line of imaginary Schneider Cup racers as if the Cup races had continued into the 1940s.... like a Mig 3 racer on floats. So,long term, shake and bake builds will not be part of my plan.

OK....now its time for me to actually get to the bench and spend a a day with my increasingly loved W.12. The HGW seatbelts have arrived and I plan to follow Bertl's advice on working with them but also use the PE from the WnWs box to see how far I can get with them. As Lance always sagely says, "it's all about having fun".

Cheers from NYC,
Michael

[ALBATROS1234]

like i said before , in any hobby it is what is fun to each individual.i said a while back on some thread that there seem to be 2 types of modelllers, those whose like building stuff more and those who enjoy the painting/finishing more. des is definately leans to the builder side with his scratchers which have little weathering and factory new finishes. others want less to do with the actual building, they prefer to concentrate on fantastic finishes,layered effects,weathering and even bases or dioramas. i guess i fall in the middle with a lean to the build,although i do greatly enjoy the weathering process. in the end have fun.sometimes i start talking about my thoughts because this is my favorite topic and its important to me. i like to hear others views.

[Michael Scarborough]

I think some of the gang has either been confused or did not carefully read my initial thoughts in this thread:

I just posted this on the WnW thread so, if you read it there, please disregard this post...I'm only posting it so we can all move on. 

I was not saying, at all, that there are no other buildable kits, nor was I saying that I won't build anything BUT WnW, nor was I saying I refused to put anything into a build other than what came in the box. Anyone having that feeling might take a quick peek at what I have planned for the W.12 or my RNAS Pup and it's setting.

My final thought on the subject is simple: I have a very limited budget of time and money for buying and building models. So, I'd prefer to put neither into bringing a non-WnW kit up to basic standards of accuracy if WnW might then surprise us with a kit of the same aircraft.

We all know they initially said they'd not produce kits of any aircraft already available from another manufacturer. Well, Hello Sopwith Camel. Granted, as many of you have said, the available Camel is a poor kit and needed replacing. But, we also know that the current WnW kits being released are better than their initial releases. So what's to say that within a few years, or sooner, they won't produce a Fokker Triplane that is considerably better than that currently offered by Roden?

Anyway, I feel that a lot of this discussion has been my doing and I, for one, now plan to leave the subject in the dust.