Eduard WWI French Seatbelts, 1/72

[WarrenD]

Forumites,
                I working on getting back to the workbench, and getting on with my Eduard Nieuport builds. I have a some questions regarding both the p/e and super-fabric WWI French seatbelts offered by Eduard.

First, I have the photo-etch set pictured here: http://www.hyperscale.com/images/eduard32620reviewrb_1.jpg

- It's been a long time since I've scanned images of cockpits of French a/c, but can anyone tell me which a/c used the very striking light blue and red/black striped seatbelts?  (Leave it to the French to make being safe also being stylish. I gotta love it!)
- My limited experience with p/e tells me I'm going to have to "anneal" these in a flame to get them to drape over a seat, etc. Doing so will automatically ruin the finish that comes with the set. Is there any way around this?

Secondly, I'm interested in the newer, "Super-Fabric" set they offer: http://www.hyperscale.com/images/eduardbelts73028.jpg

- Has anyone worked with these yet?

I thank you for your help and sage advice!

Warren

PS: Mods, please move this if I've posted this in the wrong section.

[ALBATROS1234]

i got a set of the super fabric belts in a 1/48 fokker dr.1 weekend edition. it ended up locally a the hoby shop so i grabbed it as my curiosity of what super fabric was peaked my interest. first super fabric isnt so super. it doesnt seem to be fabric at all or even a paper type product we are used to seeing with hgw and rb micro fabric seatbelts. i will attempt to describe. it seemed to be printed with some type of plastic ink? meaning it is definately printed on this piece of wax paper. you can lift a corner easily and it comes right off. the backside is shiny vinyl looking material it reminded me of the colorform toys from the 70s i played with. they were these vinyl cutouts and a background was given and you could position and reposition the figures for playtime. i had a batman and robin set. back to the super fabric. it seems this material but printed to look like seatbelts. they arent very 3d as the buckles are just silver vinyl ink laid on top. also on my eample the stitching was way out of register. bottom line, photoetch is as much better than super fabric as the new hgw style micro fabric/pe sets are better than standard etched belts. perhaps one could get away with it in 1/72. it says glue with white glue. i cant see them lying down realistically. this is my opinion mind you, i wont be purchasing any myself as i do 1/48 and some 1/32.

[ALBATROS1234]

i read more thouroughly your post. you dont have to anneal pe seatbelts, as a matter fact i dont anneal any photoetch. perhaps if the brass was super thick and you needed a compound curve situation but for pe seatbelts i basically  kinda gently bend and twist them up a bit(this is to make them look more real) then glue the attachment in place with ca glue, when dry just use small dowels with blunted tips to smash them down into place. i do this with one part of the belt then lift it up with a tweezer. carefully coat the area that touch the seat pad w ca then push back into place and hold down until it sticks. sometimes it wants to pop up so you may need to add more ca careful not to overdo it. next repeat the process with the other side trying to drape it a s naturally as possible.the first few times it seemed a pain but now its a quick 10 to 15 min job tops. the micro fabric ones are much nicer as you thread a paper belt thru pe buckles and they lay much nicer and look more real due to the buckles actually having the belts passed thru like real ones. eduard makes the etch for hgw.

[uncletony]

Yeah, I wouldn't advise annealing the painted belts unless you are itching to repaint them

[WarrenD]

Thanks for the review Albatros1234. As you said, it sounds like super fabric isn't so super, and I remember those vinyl toys from the 60's and 70's.

Bo, I sure don't want to have to repaint them, but I do remember have to anneal another set of belts to get them to lay down correctly.

Fine Molds have produced some pliable, plastic seatbelts for the second unpleasantness. They're too thick, but one could sand them down on the back to thin them.

Still no joy from anyone as to which a/c used that seatbelt style with the red & black stripes?

Warren

[uncletony]

Still no joy from anyone as to which a/c used that seatbelt style with the red & black stripes?

I am not an expert on Nieuports or French aircraft at all -- but wouldn't this fall into the "subject to variation from one individual aircraft to the next" category? From everything I can work out there just wasn't anything like the kind of standardization in cockpit fittings that would come later. Corollary: Richtofen wore British boots.

Bottom line: if you fancy the stripey seat belts, I don't think anyone can say it's not plausible.

[WarrenD]

Still no joy from anyone as to which a/c used that seatbelt style with the red & black stripes?

I am not an expert on Nieuports or French aircraft at all -- but wouldn't this fall into the "subject to variation from one individual aircraft to the next" category? From everything I can work out there just wasn't anything like the kind of standardization in cockpit fittings that would come later. Corollary: Richtofen wore British boots.

Bottom line: if you fancy the stripey seat belts, I don't think anyone can say it's not plausible.

Bo, yes, I'm sure it can fall into that category. However, there are a number of French a/c aficionados on our forum, and I was just wanting some verification as to whether there was a real life example from which this example was taken such as "Oh yes, these start showing up in images of (insert a/c name here), but only the later ones after 1917", and so on and so forth.

Warren

[davecww1]

Hi Warren,
I have never seen the blue and red striped belts, or even the horizon blue ones in any photo, all of the Nieuport 11/16/17 interior photos (which are black and white of course) seem to have the narrower belts with large leather pad where the buckles are, these would be #3 and #4 in the first link you showed.  I have not seen the wide belts that Eduard gives you, but would have to guess these were for early aircraft or 2 seaters maybe. 
As far as bending the prepainted belts, I have done like Rick does, bend them up quite a bit before gluing them in place to give them a lot of wrinkles, then attach them with acc to the seat cushion, then bend over the seat and apply some more glue to the side to hold it down.  The Eduard belts are very thin and I used them on the 1/48 Fokker D.VII and Albatros D.III OEF with good results, no annealing required.  The paint they use seems to be flexible and sticks well to the metal when bent, but I'm sure it would blacken and peel off if heated up. 
I have not seen the Super Fabric belts yet, but bought the cloth belts for the SSW D.III, just have not got around to using them yet.  The vinyl flat surface does not ound like a better alternative to the photoetched prepainted belts, especially if they are vinyl, in that case you will not be able to bend them to get realistic creases.
Dave C

[WarrenD]

I've never seen them in photos before either Dave, but I thought I'd throw it out there is someone else has. As much Nieuport info as I've assembled over the years, it seems more surfaces, and that's a great thing!

Warren

[ALBATROS1234]

my guess would be the colored belts were used on very early craft,a bleriot, m.f. longhorn/shorthorn. nieuport iv. those early days no such standardization .later they mainly used the kind with the large leather pad on the ends. and spads used the four point harness with the circular buckle in the center.

[WarrenD]

Dave, thanks for posting my query over on the WWI Modeling List, maybe someone there will have some info on the wide cloth belts.  I have also posted over at the Aerodrome just to see if anyone knows.
It's really no big deal, but my curiosity is really piqued at this point.

Warren

[davecww1]

Same here Warren, hopefully we can find an answer on what to do with all of the funny colored wide fabric seatbelts!  I think Albatros1234 has the right idea, they were most likely used on early aircraft such as the Moraine Sauliner monoplanes.  The wide horizon blue ones look more likely to be rear seat in a 2 seater such as Breguet 14  or Salmson?  Just guessing here but I can always use the 1/48 ones in my odd Salmson Moineau S.M.1 lol since no one knows what the interior looked like in them!
Dave

[WarrenD]

True, I'd just like to know because now my curiosity is piqued!

Warren

[Type99]

The few eduard etch belt sets ive used say in the directions which belts are for which types or models theyre intended. If you havent seen them yet you can look them up and download them on eduards site.

It seems eduard has different super fabric belts. The ssw ones have separate pe buckles and then simple fully printed ones. Definitely beter than nothing but i think id only use them in 1/72

[WarrenD]

Type 99, I have the set, and that information isn't on there that I recall. Even if it were, I'd like more documentation that "Eduard said so".

Warren